My view on "beater" knives

[midnight flyer]

As I've said before, we're in a era where there's a weird sub-culture that often seems to judge items not on quality, materials, design, function, and craftsmanship, but on how much of our mis-use/abuse they can take. I suppose a lot of that goes to the 'wanna be a tough guy/'operator' stuff/marketing. And there's certainly a place for such purpose built tools. But I'm also old enough to remember where doing something like damaging/breaking your blade (outside of emergency circumstances) was the trait of the amateur/novice/unskilled outdoorsman...use the right tool for the job, and all of that...

BOSS

I certainly agree with that paragraph.

In the trades, for a few decades, I see knives as tools first and prize their specific utility as knives over their ability to be used as test instruments. So I have knives that I use for fine cutting tasks, and some that do utility cutting when I don't have a box cutter or something similar at hand. I don't go into the woods and "test" my knives by wailing on them with clubs, I don't drive them into sheets of metal, and I don't whack them on things to see if they will break only to announce that they have "passed", and I am comfortable carrying them to the office.

If I am inside a large roof structure at a house during the summer (140 degrees during the day) and I drop my knife somewhere in the structure and it lands somewhere in the insulation far below, I don't look for it. If I am stuck on a roof that is steep enough to scare me finishing a repair and I need to use my knife for a last little trim, I drop it and it slides off the roof and falls 12 - 20' onto concrete, I am glad I have one of my Kershaws, not one of my ZTs. Same with working on a scaffold... it isn't the accidental drop that kills the knife, it's the sudden stop.

Break your last utility blade in your knife and need to cut a few shingles? Glad I have a $35 knife in my pocket and not one of my more expensive cutters. Same thing when cutting into a wad of sealants that requires a longer blade to get the job done. Those sealants often have debris in them that easily damage any blade, but you don't know until you cut into them and feel the blade grinding on something you can't see. The knife goes in the tool bag and I clean with the charcoal lighter fluid and re-edge it when I can. I grab the next available (I have 2 RAT folders and 3 Kershaw Tremors) that is ready to go and rehab the ones that need attention when I have a rain day.

Still, with all the nasty incidental wear and tear I have never broken a knife in 55 years of carrying them on the job site, hunting, primitive camping, fishing, canoeing, etc. I realize I don't have the "hard use" needs that many have, but I do enjoy matching the knife to the task. So far, so good. I enjoy using my ZTs (favorite work knife now is the 0909) when I can at work and have damaged the edges a bit when I had no choice. Love the knife enough I bought two, but I won't be scraping tar off roof flashings or digging out old caulk with it unless I have to.

Right tool for the job is always the best rule.

Robert

 

[rexbo]

I suppose as a knife owner/user AND a knife "collector"... I tend to look at the subject of user/beater vs "safe queen" a bit differently. To me, they each have their rightful place.

In other words I own several knives (of varying price/quality) that are my users, my beaters, whatever you want to call them. I don't abuse them, but they are nothing more to me than tools that serve a utilitarian purpose. Just like my Honda Accord is my commuter/user car so to speak...I drive it in any weather, park it wherever, rack up the miles (granted I still maintain it properly).

BUT

I have very expensive (subjective term I know) knives that I collect for their uniqueness and quality. The may see very light duty (like opening an envelope) but there are certainly used with the utmost care and respect. I choose to own/collect them because I appreciate them more as an "art form", a representation of craftsmanship and flawless execution of design and materials brought to life.
I have no intention of using them as just a tool, as simple a knife...

Again, just like my Shelby GT500 is my weekend toy... A car I have no intention of driving on salted roads, on interstates behind tractor trailers, or parking in a Walmart lot...

 

[DJC72]

Beaters are my knives that I will use and dont mind if they get chips, dings or rust. They can be budget blades or a couple hundred dollars. Some knives just beg to be used. Not sure how to define it. I don’t abuse knives, I don’t believe in putting myself or others in possible physical harm.

 

[Dean51]

^^^Well said.

As I've said before, we're in a era where there's a weird sub-culture that often seems to judge items not on quality, materials, design, function, and craftsmanship, but on how much of our mis-use/abuse they can take. I suppose a lot of that goes to the 'wanna be a tough guy/'operator' stuff/marketing. And there's certainly a place for such purpose built tools. But I'm also old enough to remember where doing something like damaging/breaking your blade (outside of emergency circumstances) was the trait of the amateur/novice/unskilled outdoorsman...use the right tool for the job, and all of that...

Another $.02 worth.

BOSS

I certainly agree with that paragraph.

In the trades, for a few decades, I see knives as tools first and prize their specific utility as knives over their ability to be used as test instruments. So I have knives that I use for fine cutting tasks, and some that do utility cutting when I don't have a box cutter or something similar at hand. I don't go into the woods and "test" my knives by wailing on them with clubs, I don't drive them into sheets of metal, and I don't whack them on things to see if they will break only to announce that they have "passed", and I am comfortable carrying them to the office.

Right tool for the job is always the best rule.

Robert

Could not have said it better.
I was taught how to use knives and tools. There is a correct tool for the job and a correct way to use the tool.
As a child I would have been in a world of hurt if I had been caught abusing tools.
One hundred percent agree with BOSS1 abusing or improper usage is a trait of the amateur/novice/unskilled outdoorsman or craftsman.

My $0.02 cents added to the pot.

 

[stabman]

I certainly agree with that paragraph.

In the trades, for a few decades, I see knives as tools first and prize their specific utility as knives

I worked as a machinist for a while.
In my tool box, there was an old Bowie knife (said "Original Bowie Knife" on the side ) which I ground into a tanto.
It stayed in my tool box, and got "hard used" a whole damned bunch.

Need to cut oil and metal chip coated straps holding down the steel? Grab the knife.
Need to pry out huge staples? That knife will do it.
Need to scrape rust off of some steel, where the surface finish is less important than removing the rust fast? Oh my, it can do it too.

As I no longer work in machining (for quite some time now), I passed it on to my step-brother, who now has it as his shop knife.

Oh, and the knife was someone else's workbench knife before I got it.

There is a correct tool for every job...and that tool is a knife.

 

[stabman]

And the snide posts prove that there is no winning.

"People don't use their knives! I hate seeing safe queens!"

"People use knives the way I don't! I hate seeing improper knife use!!!"

And of course, the good old standby of "Back when I was a kid...", which also made it's way into this thread.

I should add my own...
Back when I was a kid, a whole bunch of people I knew did stupid things with knives.
No one died, and no one even got injured. Sorry for the boring story.

 

[Twindog]

I recently traded a brand new knife for another forum member's beater -- a Fat ASH Busse, which is a 6.5-inch slab of Infi that is nearly a third of an inch thick. He fully disclosed that had beaten the snot out of that poor knife, chopping frying pans in half and hammering it through steel pipes. Then he stripped the blade coating off and died the scales.

Definitely a beater. But it came to me in almost pristine condition, with a very sharp edge and no evidence of his past misbehavior, other than a few scratches and a couple of hammer makes on the spine. Love this knife.

Much better to be the beater than the beatee.

 

[stabman]

I guess a real "beater knife" could be the utility knife at the lab.
It had the tip snapped off the blade, it had dings and gouges, and was the exact opposite of sharp.

Today, I opened it up, and reversed the blade; there are also 2 spare blades in there.
The busted tip side had been in use for TEN YEARS!!!
They were unaware that the blade was double-sided, or that it had replacement blades inside.

The lab manager thanked me, and I said "Well, now you're set for another ten years."

 

[emjay4248]

My version of a beater is a knife that comes from higher end companies that have a value line such as Kizer, Vanguard and Tangram series, Spyderco Tenacious, Resilience or a used PM2 that I picked up on one of the sites. The price range for my beaters is $40-60. I do have some cheapo knives that I bought before I started buying and collecting better knives in the $100-500 range and I use those to open boxes and envelopes also prepare packages for shipment. I would also use some better knives such as the GB2, Domino, Real steel H6 Manix 2 S30V G-10, PM2. I usually only use second hand knives as working beaters. My philosophy is if you can't use and enjoy them why bother although I do have safe queens that were bought just to play with and look at. To me Knives are 50% craft and 50% art and I always look for a knife that has a balance between form and function always leaning toward function.

 

[Lapedog]

I have always equated the term "beater" knife with the term beater car. So what does that mean?

We can see a shoddy car in disrepair and proclaim "wow, what a beater." Some people take beater knife to mean this, a cheap shoddily made knife probably missing screws used to scrape gum off asphalt.

Then we also have a contruction company manager. He has 2 brand new cars a F150 pickup and an Aston Martin. He calls the F150 "his beater car" because it is the one he takes to the job site. It is the one he isn't upset when it gets dinged by a 2x4. Same analogy with knives. I have my Emerson which is my "luxury beater" which equates to the F150. Then I have my Inkosi which is like my sports car.

I do use the Inkosi but I treat it like our hypothetical friend treats his Aston Martin. My Emerson gets beat on.

(Not the best analogy because the inkosi is actually capable of way harder work than I give it)

 

[Basp2005]

My beater is my ss Izula. I'm willing to use it in ways I wouldn't with the expensive folder in my pocket. Batoning, opening up tin cans, that sort of stuff.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

I have some valuable knives & tools that are new & old, I don't measure them in monetary value but in value to me by what they are like to use, how they feel, how they perform & how long I've been using them, the longer I use something the more attached to it I become, I get pleasure from using something that works as it should, knowing it will do it again & again, obviously a good starting point is a quality knife or tool which can be expensive, but as we know not necessarily.

The idea of abusing a knife or having a "beater" suggests to me using the wrong tool for the job, in this case there would be no pleasure in using it for me so I can honestly say I do not have a "beater" anything. As for throwing any tool in the bin or trash because it "doesn't matter" goes a long way to summing up what's wrong with our "first world" society...........

So don't be afraid to use your "good" knife(s), you'll only ruin them if you're misusing them, they may deprecate in value but who knows you might even benefit from finding pride in what it's like to appreciate a nice tool, if they won't do the job at hand without damage get a tool that will.
After all you can't t take them with you!

 

[panoz77]

Riddle me this, I keep reading posts in the want to sell area about knives that were "carried, but not used", how is this possible? Why even carry it if you never plan on using it. I can't imagine going one day without having a use for my knife. Odd birds, some are.

 

[22-rimfire]

Riddle me this, I keep reading posts in the want to sell area about knives that were "carried, but not used", how is this possible? Why even carry it if you never plan on using it. I can't imagine going one day without having a use for my knife. Odd birds, some are.

It is possible when you carry more than one knife. I have carried a fixed blade along with my SAK and it never got used. So it would have been "carried but not used". My ZT 0770cf was not used for a long time and I carried it. But eventually it got used. So it would be "lightly used" at this point. My Steel Will Mini Cutjack gets carried and used. I just like it. Is it price that makes the difference? Sometimes. Is it the design? That is more often the case, but you still "like it".

 

[Lapedog]

Riddle me this, I keep reading posts in the want to sell area about knives that were "carried, but not used", how is this possible? Why even carry it if you never plan on using it. I can't imagine going one day without having a use for my knife. Odd birds, some are.

I have many knives that are carried but not used.

I would buy a new knife and carry it that day, but never really had the chance to use it. So I put it back in the box for a while until I decide I want to give it another try.

Out it comes and I carry it, play with it, fidget with it but still haven't cut with it. I decide I like the knife but for whatever reason it is not one of my favs so it goes back in the box.

Now the knife has some wear but has never been used to cut.

 

[Basp2005]

Riddle me this, I keep reading posts in the want to sell area about knives that were "carried, but not used", how is this possible? Why even carry it if you never plan on using it. I can't imagine going one day without having a use for my knife. Odd birds, some are.

For example, these two are carried today.

I'll use the Phaeton for sure, but not for let's say food prep. Cutting up some tomatoes and some raw chicken. I don't want to get that stuff inside of an otf auto. But, the Izula shrugs it off no problem.

 

[maximus83]

I don't understand some peoples definition of beaters.

Why in the world would somebody take a cheap knife to use as a beater?
Its cheap, cheaply made out of garbage, and just can't handle it.

[...]

If you spend money for superior quality that will last through use, why the heck aren't you using it?

They cost more for a reason.

Apologies in advance for the novella, it's not just this thread, this is something I've been thinking about for a while on the issue of cost vs quality in knives.

First thing, seems like part of the challenge is folks have different understanding of the concept of a "beater." Posted mine earlier. So it's important to be clear what you mean by beater.

In thread, the OP defines beater as a "cheap knife" that you "use as a beater." Then goes on to contrast these beater knives with "spend money for superior quality," and "they cost more for a reason."

So to translate:

• Buy quality knives and use them hard.
• 'Quality knives' mean those that cost more.

Agree with the first; not the second. It would help if OP suggested how much you have to spend to get quality. Is there some minimum price threshold above which you get significantly higher quality? Because I have some good quality and well made knives that cost in the range of $20 to $30, they cut as well (assuming they're sharp) and lock up as well as any more expensive knives I have. For knives, I've found that cost is not an indicator of quality in general, although you could make a reasonable case that below certain common price points, quality markedly drops off (just due to natural limits in how cheap you can get the materials and manufacturing process and still build a solid knife). Two good specimens of low-priced quality: my old friend, my Buck Vantage Select that cost a whopping total of.....$23. And my newer Ontario Rat 1 in D2 steel, cost $39.99. These when sharp cut as well as my $240 ZT, open smoothly, lock up as strongly as any liner lock I own, and nice fit and finish with blades perfectly centered in the channel and no blade play. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy getting nicer knives too, just don't buy the idea that you have to spend a lot to get quality blades that are good for hard use.

Now maybe OP you want to push the hard use thing. Maybe you'll say "Sure, but I want to use my Adamas like a fixed blade, and really beat on it. Try THAT with your wimpy $30 liner locks, Maximus." OK sure, point taken. My little Buck Vantage cannot hold up to all the same hard use tasks as an Adamas, due to thinner blade stock, and lesser lock strength. But now we're tweaking the definition, right? Now we're saying not just that quality means a more expensive knife, but also, it means a folder that you can use as hard as a fixed blade. I don't agree with that (implied) definition either. I think folding knives are tools, there are a variety of sizes/types of tools, and you pick the right tool for the job at hand. You wouldn't use one size screwdriver for all screw-driving jobs (well ok, SOME people would), and you don't necessarily need to use one size/strength of knife for all knife tasks. Personally, I wouldn't want to just buy one gigantic, super heavy, pricey folder and use that for all possible knife tasks. If you do, and want a big heavy folding knife that you can use like a fixed blade for your work, by all means, that's what you should get. The Adamas from what I hear is a great candidate for that role, so is Cold Steel SR1, I'd even say Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter, and many others. But heck, a $40 Buck 110 can handle a lot things those blades can too in terms of lock strength, though it won't have as good edge retention due to 420HC. But I assume most of us have a variety of different tools sizes and types. And I also have a variety of different knife sizes and types. I don't see the knife blade size/thickness and lock type as inherently an indicator of quality. Just different tools, different sizes, and different price points.

So bottom line: agree for user knives, buy quality. But with knives, quality does not have to mean higher cost. We knife owners are lucky folk, there is an amazing variety of quality knives out there in all sizes, types, and price ranges.

 

[emjay4248]

Riddle me this, I keep reading posts in the want to sell area about knives that were "carried, but not used", how is this possible? Why even carry it if you never plan on using it. I can't imagine going one day without having a use for my knife. Odd birds, some are.

I carry two folding and one fixed IWB. I generally use the smaller of the 2 in my pocket. The larger one is for protection and the small fixed blade is just because I like to carry it. The one that gets the most use is the smaller in the pocket. I used the larger today on food and will need to take it apart and clean it. I rotate the folders everyday & if I'm going out at night I will swap for smaller gentleman's knifes.
Being that I own more than 70 knives there are many that I carry that don't see any use. I have been carrying my fixed blade for over a month and have never had the need to use it. I have a ZT 0462 CF that I have carried many times because I like the feel of it and I am a sucker for CF. but I have never cut anything with it, I usually carry my GB2 with it and use that for almost everything. I believe that now you know how someone can carry many times without using it. When it comes to knife nuts like me a lot of knives that I carry never see the light of day, they are just fun to carry.

 

[bhyde]

I have a few I consider beater knives. To me, that more or less means I am not going to be thinking too much about losing them as opposed to some of the nicer ones I have. Probably not going to worry so much about a coworker or relative borrowing them either.
There are several that stay in the safe or cabinet. Some that get used occasionally and a few that are just flat out abused.

That's my definition that I use. Others probably are very similar.

 

[Mo2]

Who cares how much it costs, use it. It's just metal and can be fixed if scratched.

Don't pry with knives, not even in the slightest and you won't break the blade.

I wear a Kershaw usa if I think I'm going somewhere where i may loose a knife. Inexpensive and decent quality. $100 and below isn't gonna hurt if something happens to it. I've never lost a knife, as I have pride in the ownership since I pay good money for good quality. If I were to buy cheap junk like mtech I sure as hell would forget it and loose it.

Iirc Dr frunkey stashed a $1000 knife cause he couldn't take it on a boat tour and some one found it and took it. So, all I can say is be cautious where u go with an expensive knife and have a plan so you can stash it if you do. I've heard folks dig a hole for it in the dirt lol. If no one sees or no camera around that would certainly work. But there is always a way to avoid that and you can't always take a knife everywhere. Just be smart about it.