My Young Sher Kobra: My First HI Khukuri

[jayinhk]

Duzzy, thank you for understanding where I'm coming from. As you noted, I've had issues with KH on every order I've placed with them. With HI, I've also had an issue, but at a substantially higher price. The karda should not be wiggling around. As far as the handle goes, there is no real gap, but I believe it could have been put together better. Aunty described this rig as "10/10," so if a seriously loose karda is a 10/10 rig, I shudder to think what a lesser rig would be like.

I am comparing HI to KH because I've bought khuks from both. The only blemish that was described was a small grain mark on the handle. In fact, there are several, but I never even mentioned that. I knew my dissatisfaction would be met with criticism by the regulars. I know how Karda feels about HI and how Uncle Bill was like a beacon of light for him during a hard time, and having been through some tough times in my life myself, I totally understand, but I'm trying to be as impartial as possible when comparing the khuks. If comparing the quality of HI khuks to KH khuks warrants this thread being moved, so be it. I just genuinely believe I am getting better Dharan-made khukuris from KH for less money, although as I stated, I like the size of the HI khuks handles better and the Kobra seems to fit in the sheath better than my KH ones do. I've ordered a similar Sirupate with a larger handle (5"), upgraded karda and chakmak from KH, so I'll post pics when it gets here.

I'm not advertising for KH--I'm merely stating they are an option that should be considered. I have no doubt that the Kobra is tough and durable, but for the price, I believe I could get substantially better fit and finish elsewhere.

Aunty really hasn't done anything wrong, and short of shipping the khuk back for a refund, I don't see how she could help. It would cost me $40 to ship it back, so I might as well keep it or sell it locally to someone who likes it more than I do. It's not the described blemish that bothers me--it's the other issues that weren't described that I can't live with.

 

[jayinhk]

I agree with Duzzy on this thread being moved to the Cantina. If the rule about discussing other companies is uniformly enforced, I'm fine with it. I did point out the issues I've had with KH too (looser sheaths, small handles) and as I stated, getting khukuris from HI is much faster and simpler than getting them from KH, but I believe the KH ones are worth the wait (my last two took over a month to get here) because of the better fit and finish. I will definitely have pics and possibly a video for you later.

To the regulars: no apologies needed. I knew the kind of reaction I'd get and I'm not bothered in the least. I'm just happy to be able to state my opinion.

 

[jayinhk]

The two khukuris I'm comparing:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I took a bunch of pics, but I have to get to work (it's 9:44 am here), so I'll post the rest later.

 

[Karda]

As long as the policy is enforced evenly (be it a company like KH that is direct competition, or a company like Busse) It's not the choice I would make, but then again I'm not the Moderator.

I'm assuming youre referring to Ankersons chop off videos. His comparison was between two differnt types of knives altogether. Apples and Oranges. Plus he was in no way recommending that anyone should buy one or the other. Perhaps i should've moved it then, i dont know. I am not infallible, Auntie is not infallible, nor is anyone here infallible.
I have tried to be easy going and lenient, but you can bet money now i will be taking more of a hard line. This forum has been a bastion of free speech, but you will find as i have, that there are limits to this mantra and lines you should not cross. I find the way this topic was posted and some of it's contents distasteful and in poor etiquette. We may never know how Auntie could've made this right, as she wasnt given the chance. The opportunity was taken, however, to tout the direct competitions wares in her forum in multiple postings. How do you think Mr. Lama would feel if the roles were reversed here. Do you think he would approve of your actions?
If either of you feels your dissatisfaction is so great that you feel it is warranted to forego giving Auntie a chance to satisfy you and believe it is meritable to come here and make posts to harm her business, then perhaps it would be best for all that you made your purchases elsewhere.

I am comparing HI to KH because I've bought khuks from both.

According to your own admission you have bought several from KH even though every order had "issues" and the khukuri's themselves were loose in their scabbards, scabbard was wet and Etc.... on retail product. You also stated this was your first and only purchase from H.I. and it was a blem. Hardly enough for proper comparison. BTW have you chopped more than coconut with your KH's? we have members here who have put H.I. khukuri and KH khukuri, among others thru much more.

I'm not advertising for KH--I'm merely stating they are an option that should be considered. I have no doubt that the Kobra is tough and durable, but for the price, I believe I could get substantially better fit and finish elsewhere.

You will not do so in this manufacturers forum anywhere, If you persist in this vein you will find your thread locked. Am i making myself perfectly clear?

 

[jayinhk]

Thanks for being fair and impartial Karda. The Kobras and Sirupates are not made for chopping wood, so that wouldn't be much of a test. Do you think your opinion of my posts may be a little clouded by your passion for HI and its fans? I have absolutely no connection to either company.

As for the rattle in the scabbard--this may be more common with smaller khuks.

 

[Wolf_1989]

I bought a 'heavy' M43 made by Young Sher on a DOTD not too long ago. The tang is a little cockeyed and there's a little bit of shrinkage on the wood handle near the pommel cap. BUT it took one heck of a sharp edge and it's a power chopper for sure.

Minor imperfections don't bother me. If the blade had snapped the first time I used it, THAT would bother me.

My Bura-made Sirupati came with two kardas instead of the usual karda & chakma combo, and the handles on the double kardas were not polished and stained. I don't care. I polished them and stained them myself.

The bolster on my 26" Chitlangi wobbles a little bit. Almost a whole millimeter of movement. The same is true with my first H.I. khukri, a 20" AK by Kumar. I used it HARD for years and now the bolster wobbles almost a full millimeter. Oh noez.

But on the other hand I have two 21.5" Chitlangis made by Kami Sher The Tiger which are so perfect I wouldn't change anything about them. I have the Sgt Khadka Super CAK, again, perfection.


There, I have criticized H.I.

 

[jayinhk]

It's cool that you can accept those imperfections. I just expect more for my hard earned money, especially if the competition can deliver more for less money. Is that wrong? Admittedly, short of buying a carcass to test these lighter khuks on, I can't test their durability.

 

[jayinhk]

Here's a pic of the handle/bolster on the Kobra:




Here's the handle on the KH Sirupate--the transition is perfect:




Here's the buttcap on the Sirupate. Some of the adhesive used to secure the handle seeped out, but there is no sharp edge:



Here's the handle on the Kobra. No visible adhesive, but there is a gap that you can feel. Nothing that a little epoxy couldn't fix though:



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[jayinhk]

Here's a comparison of the thickness of the two blades. The Kobra (on the right) is interestingly thicker than the KH Sirupate, which is what makes it feel so much heavier--the extra length also means the sweet spot is much further away from your hand, which affects your recovery after a swing, but this is expected with a longer khuk. I bought the Kobra expecting it to be thinner than the KH Sirupate. Also note the gap between the blade and the bolster on the Kobra. There is no gap at all between the blade and bolster on the Sirupate.

 

[jayinhk]

Here are the points on the Kobra and the Sirupate. The Kobra is on the right. The Sirupate has a sharper point, but I requested a very sharp point and they ensured I got one. The Kobra's point is a little duller, but still very good IMO.

Here's the back of the sheath and the frog on the Kobra. The stitching is loose, and so is the leather. It looks like it will fall apart at some point.

Here are the backs of both sheaths. The leather on the Sirupate is much tighter and the frog is riveted. I must admit I like the loop on the Kobra's sheath--it makes it much easier to hang on the wall/back of a door. The stitching on the Sirupate is far better, however, as is the polish job, and the leather is nice and tight over the wood frame.

 

[jayinhk]

Here's the mouth on the Kobra--note the gap in the leather and the unpolished buffalo hide.

Additionally, there is wood visible on the Kobra's sheath. This is not an issue on any of my three KH khuks.

Here are the two kardas. Again, I give the edge to HI: the karda is larger and much easier to hold onto:

KH offers upgraded kardas and chakmaks for $7 US, and they have buttcaps. Even with the extra $7, the custom Sirupate (highly polished up top with an unpolished bevel, left handed scabbard and upgraded karda and chakmak) cost me less with shipping than the blem Kobra (BEFORE shipping).

 

[jayinhk]

Here's the karda on the Kobra. In this position, I have it positioned upright:

A light tap and it is close to falling out:

Kardas and chakmaks get lost all the time, but with this kind of fit, a slight knock could dislodge it. That would mean no more karda if I was scrambling up a mountain in the jungle...the KH karda and chakmak sit nice and deep in their slots:

It also looks like the slots for the karda and chakmak on the Kobra weren't as well formed as on the Sirupate's (top) scabbard.

 

[jayinhk]

Now here's what I like about the Kobra. It fills my hand up and the buttcap doesn't end up digging into my palm:

The Sirupate, on the other hand, has a slimmer handle and I have to move my hand up onto to the bolster with the standard-sized handle. The 21" Sirupate I ordered should be better (I hope).

 

[jayinhk]

Here's the brass tip on the Kobra's scabbard. It wasn't bent and epoxied down very well, so I now have a hole on my sheets. I'd hate for that sharp edge to get stuck in my leg or in my pants. Remember, this was described as a 10/10 rig.

On the KH Sirupate, the tip was bent right down and epoxied well. It does not have any sharp edges and is less likely to get caught on something.

 

[jayinhk]

Here's the fuller/Sword of Shiva on both. I expected the HI fuller to be much straighter and evenly defined, but they're at about the same level IMO. It might be a little smoother on the KH. You tell me...

Please forgive the condensation on the blades. I took the khuks out of my air-conditioned room into the hot, humid air to take these pics.

As far as lightweight fighting blades go, I'd go with a 14" KH Sirupate over a 20" HI Kobra because of the weight difference. I'll post a review and comparison of the 21" KH Sirupate when it comes in (not in the HI forums...don't worry).

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Well this is now firmly in Cantina territory...sorta.

A lot of you newer guys were not around when the Cantina was opened up. At that time, the rules were HEAVILY enforced. Any amount of off topic discussion in the main room was shuffled over to the Cantina. It literally was just a board filled with DOTD and the same questions that are asked over and over again.

It was a confusing line that the mods at the time had to walk. Over the last couple of years, the various Mods of HI have done their best to try and smooth out this ambiguous line as best we can. We make judgment calls as fairly as possible.

Now, this thread has veered into some sort of passive aggressive game of beat around the bush where people are basically telling each other to go to hell without coming right out and saying it. I think everyone just needs to cool their jets. Also, the moment pics of competing brands of khuks were places along side of HI products, it should be moved over to the review forum. jayinhk, no one was doubting you before. However, don't you think 7 picture posts in a row is a little much? Could it not be extrapolated that you are not stoking the flames a bit? Is that a bit like traipsing through another person's house with muddy boots on? You tell me...

I'm going to try and make this brutally and painfully clear here: Just because HI is the only khukuri board on blade forums does not mean that Yangdu has to put up with gloating of the competition in her forums. the HI board and Cantina are NOT a catch all for everything khukuri. Furthermore, there is no shady conspiracy to HIDING this thread in the Cantina. Karda simply moved it there because that is protocol. It is NOT very fair to Yangdu to have a thread comparing ONE blemished as advertised khuk show up along side THREE full priced khuks from another manufacturer on her main board. She is running an honest and reputable business, and everyone knows that.

The regulars of HI are a pretty learned bunch. Many of us have handled khukuris from all kinds of different manufactures at different levels of fit and finish. The experts on this board really enjoy helping out those who might have an honest question or concern. However, Karda and I are not going to let anything happen at Yangdu's expense.

I'm not going to lock this thread down, because that's not how I like to do things. We are all adults here, right?

Carry on.

 

[jayinhk]

Steely, I'm totally up for having this thread moved to the reviews forum. I have pictorial evidence of the points I've outlined above, which is why I chose to take so many. I'm only comparing the HI Kobra to the KH Sirupate--I haven't even mentioned the other khuks in the posts above.

Also, remember that KH's full priced khuks cost less than HI's blems, so I feel the comparison is fair. Now if I felt the same when comparing a full priced Kobra to a Sirupate, I'd be really unhappy, but I don't want to shell out $155 shipped for a khukuri that is heavier and has worse fit and finish than the competition's closest model (which is fully customizable and costs $80 with shipping).

 

[greenwoods]

What does a neutron star weigh?


Mark

 

[JayGoliath]

Simple.

Yangdu, Uncle Bill & BirGorkha.

I'm in no state to compare anyone here who obviously has or knew more khukuris than i do. But the point of purchase through H.I are more than just getting a blade (i'm getting more) we wanted (and 1 case of this, doesn't justify the fact H.I is STILL very much the G.O.AT of Khuks) BUT the supports we hold out for the Kamis. WIN-WIN situation, isn't it?

" We are doing a good karma, matey "

At the end of the day, Khukuri is, still made to be used, correct?

I do not know if KH has communicated the same way Yangdu did. But i think for someone who's guarding Uncle's legacy as her own, as legend said, you cannot destroy someone who's ready to die for the cause.
I will keep buying from H.I despite the fact Tora has a darn good looking scabbard, KH has a better finish but i have to bow for Auntie's commitment to EVERY emails i sent (not to mention a few hundreds coming her way).
For someone who work alone, i wonder if KH comes back to my email in less than a day?

I've tried to read and absorb every single thread in both new & old Archives searching for the info on 18th Cent Khuk.From the availability of just B.A.S & 15" AK TO custom order with the greatest customer service in the world, i don't know if there's really another one out there.

As we speak now, a special package is on its way to Reno which will eventually go to BirGorkha.

I don't sleep with my Salyan but i do oil, talk & kiss him everyday before i go to sleep.Going to bed with the thought i have the baddest & thickest blade made makes me feel damn good.

Life's full of blems and imPERFECTIONS, perhaps that is why we are able to appreciate the beauty, but without comparisons, what is PERFECTION?

 

[Ryan M]

Also, remember that KH's full priced khuks cost less than HI's blems, so I feel the comparison is fair. Now if I felt the same when comparing a full priced Kobra to a Sirupate, I'd be really unhappy, but I don't want to shell out $155 shipped for a khukuri that is heavier and has worse fit and finish than the competition's closest model (which is fully customizable and costs $80 with shipping).

You do have to keep some things in mind, though (which other people may've already said with a teeny bit less civility).

Your HI khukuri was made by a guy who was, up until recently, an apprentice. He's still got a ways to go, and others have already noted that his handles aren't the best. A common saying when learning to draw is "you've got about a million bad drawings in you, so you better start getting them out of your system now." Hand-forging a blade is definitely more of an art than it is a science. And HI does not charge a premium to have your blade made by a more experienced smith.

The "closest model" made by KH, is quite a bit smaller.

Being heavier means there's more steel, which means it was much more expensive to make. A lot of people don't understand that about 3rd world economies. Materials costs are a much bigger factor when you're not buying from a heavily industrialized country. Especially these days, since Nepal is having something of a steel shortage.

As far as the "10/10" rating goes, I've noticed Yangdu judges blades as heavy-duty users, not as show pieces or necessarily martial arts blades. If it looks and feels like it'll hold together for a lifetime of use, it's a 10/10. If a khukuri doesn't look or feel like that, the kamis will certainly hear about it and we'll probably never even know that it existed. Yangdu is Nepali born and raised, and that's really how most Nepalis will judge a khukuri when buying one for themselves. Having to epoxy and file a handle in a couple spots, and maybe rework the scabbard, isn't as big a deal to them as it may be to us Americans, who want everything to look like it was made by a machine.

And finally, HIs are generally known for being much thicker and heavier than most other brands, even other Nepali ones. Even though the Kobra is supposed to be a light model... well, honestly, from what I've seen, the only kami who can match the speed and agility that Kumar hammered into his khukuris, is Sgt. Khadka, and he isn't a regular employee (and Kumar left long ago). Sadly, I would have to agree that current production Kobras over 15" long, unless you can get the Sergeant to make you one, probably are not the best for martial arts (my Sgt. Khadka Chainpuri, however, is hands down the most amazing martial arts blade I've ever held. On the other hand, in all honestly the scabbard is almost purely decorative, and the karda and chakma look like they were made by a small child; on the other other hand, both of those problems are pretty well known about Sgt. Khadka's khukuris, and I bought that Chainpuri knowing about them). The info about Kobras on the website was written while Kumar was still making them.

I'm not trying to blame you or anything, but more thorough research may have turned up the above points before you bought the 20" Kobra, which may've helped you make a better purchasing decision (whether that decision would have been to buy a different size and/or model and/or kami of HI, or to buy a KH). You also probably should have been able to guess that a 20" long, 23 ounce blade won't be as agile as one that's 2" shorter and I'm guessing almost a half pound lighter.

Also, I do recommend some light wood cutting with both, by way of comparison. I've chopped through branches up to about 1.5" with a 15" Siru (not in one swing, of course!). It takes awhile with one that small and light, but your 20" Kobra is absolutely up to the task of light woodcutting.