Mystery Knife Guessing Game.

[TPVT]

FatCity67 and Arathol - I'm gonna call this: You, my friends are officially Champions of Obscure Knife Lore!

Number 2 was not an easy knife to guess at all - being homemade, and not too detailed a photo on the 'blade'.

Yes, it's an apiarist's honey uncapping knife!

It's from the Beechworth Honey Archive.

A steamhose would be attached to the tubes on the end of the handle and, once heated, 'used for removing caps from individual cells in one sweep across the frame. This exposed the honey before the frame was placed in the extractor.'

(And apologies - I see the tube ends are actually metal, not rubber.)

Apparently earlier versions would just be long bladed knives, heated in water before use, and later evolutions of the concept use electricity for heat.

https://victoriancollections.net.au/items/51db8d352162ef047c2fbb64

I have to ask, have you seen both of the suggestions you made in action, before? I've never heard of an asparagus knife - I would have guessed that some thin, stainless blade with maybe a pruning shape would be used for that.

Anyway, well done!

Charlie, you get the Conan Doyle Deductive Reasoning runners up award for working out how the tool would likely function. You may officially wear your Deerstalkers cap for the day in recognition of your sleuthing!

TPVT - you got close with your reasoning, you were just at the other end of the temperature spectrum, my friend.

Alright, now all you gurus of the Porch Brains Trust need to wow us by producing some definitive evidence or knowledge that will help us to work out what Knife No. 1 was for!

ha, thanks. funny, i read the answer, and that's exactly what i thought.

 

[Cambertree]

Finally think I have this photo thing figured out on this forum. Here is the blade I was talking about earlier. Really gets us no closer to the answer but see how close the construction is to the Sheffield knife.

[/IMG]

Well that's interesting RedFury. And do you have any more info on what that might specifically be for? I'm guessing maybe a putty or paint or some sort of spreading knife, perhaps?

 

[Cambertree]

Found a picture of a similar 19th century lotion spatula and did this-



look familiar?

Huh that's very interesting too, you make a good case for it being broken and afterward repurposed. :thumbup:

How it was I came to hear about it in another members collection might bear recounting. It was mentioned as a knife which had been assumed to have been a broken handle stub of something else. One day when examining it more closely - even from a cursory glance, the bolster area and handle juncture for example show obvious signs of quality - it became apparent that it seems to be a tool shaped that way for a particular purpose.

When I examined it, I thought the same way - first that it was the broken remnant of something else - then, after examining it more closely, that it's likely a specific trade or craft tool designed with complexity of understanding and task intent.

I'm sorry the detail doesn't come out better of the edge contour on this knife, but these are the best photos I could expand of this piece.





Part of my rationale is, if you look closely at the inside edge of the protruding point, you can see a definite bevel extending neatly and evenly all the way around the front cutting or scraping faces if the tool.

I'd even go further and hazard a guess that some of that edge contour might be forged in, not ground.

Now at this point there's a few options to consider.

One is that it's broken and repurposed. This would indicate either that it is overhardened, or that there was some fatal defect in the steel, causing it to fracture like glass in such a way. (It has obviously not broken from softness or it would be bent around the break and it seems clean, and even with straight, parallel edge bevels.)

Then you have the question that if the reshaper was of that level of skill, they would certainly have been comfortable to reshape the tool to any contour they wanted, not just be bound by the random pattern of the broken edge.

Also I'm thinking that in the past, it probably wasn't that expensive, say if you were a firm wanting a few dozen special forged edged tools for a certain purpose, to have them made up according to your preferred custom template by skilled forgers.

So, I might be going out on a limb, but I'm going to suggest it's a tool that 'is as it is' with minimal reshaping or resharpening.

Personally, I couldn't put my finger on exactly why, but I'm imagining it easiest given all your suggestions so far, as some some of painters or plasterers type of scraper or palette type knife.

I will say as well, that he wasn't sure, but my mate thought it might have got into his collection as part of a lot of cobblers or cordwainers tools, so one of the previous conjectures we made were that it may have been some kind of leather skiving or finishing knife.

That could be a red herring, though!

 

[r8shell]

OK. Late night, wild theory time:
You start with a small spreading tool along the lines of a putty knife, palette knife, plaster working, glazier-type thing:

If the example you have is indeed not broken, it could have been modified by the artisan. I know jewelers, potters, sculptors, etc. who will often modify their tools if there's some particular need that arises and the tool they have on hand doesn't quite fit.

 

[Arathol]

Personally, I couldn't put my finger on exactly why, but I'm imagining it easiest given all your suggestions so far, as some some of painters or plasterers type of scraper or palette type knife.

Interesting. That is a distinct possibility. As a matter of fact, I came across this, from 1945-

 

[Cambertree]

r8shell you make a pretty convincing case there, and I can definitely envisage that. I personally don't think it's a broken down larger knife or spreader, for the reasons stated above, but I can definitely picture it as a smaller tradesmans tool like your example, that may have been reground for some purpose. I recall that fascinating thing too about visiting potters studios, blacksmithies and woodworkers sheds - seeing those unique, specialised, often one of a kind shop tools for some kind of cryptic purpose.

The extra challenge we face in this case is none of us quite know what it actually is, so while one of the guesses so far might actually be right we also have a higher standard of evidence, so to speak.

We ideally would get someone turn up a catalogue trade page, or book, or maybe narrow it down to a recognisable trade from their own background and experience, or a friend or family relatives.

To be honest, the more I look at it, the more I think it might have three or more functions built into it, depending on the way it is used, like the suggestion of an early 5-in-1 tool. (Of course, I might be 'projecting' onto it as well!)

Or, as you suggested earlier, it is may be something made for a very specific shape and type of work, like a Cornice knife of some kind.

 

[Cambertree]

Interesting. That is a distinct possibility. As a matter of fact, I came across this, from 1945-

That certainly has the look, Arathol. :thumbup:

Its that toothy point on Knife No. 1 I keep returning to. On the 5-in1 tool, I understand it is to scrape out and widen cracks to accept the filler material, and I could also picture it being used to run a groove into plaster or clay too. I'm reminded of my first part time job as a brickies labourer, how the brickies had a tool that was basically a bit of wood with an angled tackhead sticking out of it. They would run that between the wet courses, to ensure the layer of 'mud' between was at an even depth and appearance. I can picture this tool, perhaps in some sort of similar capacity.

 

[Sabercat]

Is there any chance this is thick enough to use on a lathe? If the woodworker wanted to mass produce an exact shape perhaps.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Valenciamanu]

The first is a knife to erase ink by scraping the paper. The second I think is a papermaker's knife for painter.To cut paper and spread the tail
Here more photos of knives to scratch paper to erase ink

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Cambertree]

Is there any chance this is thick enough to use on a lathe? If the woodworker wanted to mass produce an exact shape perhaps.

Sabercat, that's an interesting take, very interesting.

It's hard to say because while I recall it was probably rigid enough to put some light detail into wood on a lathe, my intuition tells me if it was designed to be used for that purpose regularly, it would be a bit more heavy duty.

That's not to discount that it's not just a one off shop tool adapted from whatever was at hand. But as I've conjectured, the quality of the edge on the end of the blade of the piece seems to be for a particular task, maybe similar to that, as the cutting or scraping bevel seems to be on the end of the knife, not the sides.

 

[Cambertree]

J

The first is a knife to erase ink by scraping the paper. The second I think is a papermaker's knife for painter.To cut paper and spread the tail
Here more photos of knives to scratch paper to erase ink

[/URL][/IMG]

Those are some superb eraser and papermakers knives, Valenciamanu. Thanks very much for posting those, and I had never thought of the possibility of this piece as an ink eraser knife.

The profile and shape seem very similar. There's just one niggling thing and that's the cutting edge seems to be at the end of the blade, not along the sides.

I don't have it front of me so I can't check unfortunately, but it would be a strange place for a sharpened edge on an ink eraser knife.



If it is sharpened on the sides, I could picture it being used as an ink eraser knife. I guess this would be part of a cluster of patterns that were reasonably standardised back in that time in Britain so, I'm sure someone will know if it could be consistent with a Sheffield ink eraser knife, or not.

 

[RedFury]

Oh my goodness
At some point in my life I had a knife just like the center one except mine had a boat handle instead of white. Very sharp little knife.

The first is a knife to erase ink by scraping the paper. The second I think is a papermaker's knife for painter.To cut paper and spread the tail
Here more photos of knives to scratch paper to erase ink

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[RedFury]

Black, not "boat". darn auto-correct. Now you've got me thinking and wondering where my ink eraser knife went.

 

[RedFury]

Like Arathol, the best I could come up with by searching the internet was some sort of spreader used in the baking. However, I don't buy that because the tool is just too sturdy. Probably just a boring old putty knife. One hundred fifty years ago tools were made with more reverence than they are now so something quite mundane might be fully forged and fitted with a high quality wood handle.

Well that's interesting RedFury. And do you have any more info on what that might specifically be for? I'm guessing maybe a putty or paint or some sort of spreading knife, perhaps?

 

[RedFury]

Look, I found a mark. LONDON of sure. Star in the center but I can't make the second word. Also the letters CT are quite clear to the left of the mark. I think there are more letters. Any suggestions on how to bring up a worn mark??

 

[RedFury]

 

[RedFury]

 

[Valenciamanu]

I hope you find it. The truth is that those are not mine. A greeting

 

[Valenciamanu]

I hope you find it. The truth is that those are not mine. I think the shape can be for drawing tecnico.Pero is a supposition. Even if this sharp can be to review pencils or sharpen bird feathers. But I do not know for sure. I used a scalpel when drawing a line. A greeting.

 

[Cambertree]

Redfury - I'm guessing you're not wanting to polish out or remove material from that area, there so you could take a rubbing, put it an acute angle under a lamp, or examine the area with a jewellers loupe. Also a little WD-40 or mineral oil on a cloth.

Londons interesting. I wonder if their records of makers marks were as sparse as Birmingham and Salisbury?