naive questions about randall

That's definitely a valid question.

Randall knives are legendary, they have built a reputation throughout the decades. And they forge their blades, which is an advantage according to some experts.
And I wouldn't consider O-1 tool steel to be inferior to VG-10, it's just not a stainless. As far as their 440B blades go, you're right: that's definitely not the best steel out there.
 
Originally posted by Matt Shade
No need to get pissed and start acting like that, then we really won't care/beleive what you say.
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I don't care whether you believe me or not. I'm telling the truth and I'm saying (to those who want to buy a Randall knife) to do a research on their knives. I know I made a BIG mistake (purchasing a Randall instead of an Al Mar) back then.It's much safer to buy a product from big companies who employ engineers with scientific metalurgical knowledge than some home furnace made knives.

You don't know for sure that Randall didn't RC test your knife. Have you ever seen a Rockwell tester?

Perhaps we should ask the Randal company whether their blades are individually RC tested? There was no diamond pin mark on my Randall when it arrived.



I have a question for Cliff Stamp. Blade thickness of my Randall is 5,4 mm (they say they made the blades from 1/4 stock= 6,2 mm). Could you tell me what would be possible reasons they grinded that much material out of original stock thickness? maybe the blade got decarburised? hence the low hardness?
 
Originally posted by Scyth
It's much safer to buy a product from big companies who employ engineers with scientific metalurgical knowledge than some home furnace made knives.
Glad to see such faith in custom makers everywhere.

Perhaps we should ask the Randal company whether their blades are individually RC tested? There was no diamond pin mark on my Randall when it arrived.
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Yes, that would have been a fine idea. Before you started trashing them. I'm sure they would be happy to test your knife now, rather than have you tell everyone its only RC52 judging by highly accurate rivet chop method. As far as the pin mark, it would have been ground out when the blade was finished.

I'm not trying to call you a liar or say that you just want to complain. I'm saying that before you trash a company or maker publicly, especially one with such a reputation, that you should give them the chance to make things right.
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Scyth seems to be simply our latest little troll. When facts and reason do not avail, the man's intent was obviously not to question, but to harangue. Just sell the Randall if please; there are plenty of us who would love to have it. BTW, make sure you discount it deeply since yours is only RC-52 and has a terrible nick along its spine.

n2s
 
Originally posted by Matt Shade
Yes, that would have been a fine idea. Before you started trashing them. I'm sure they would be happy to test your knife now, rather than have you tell everyone its only RC52 judging by highly accurate rivet chop method. As far as the pin mark, it would have been ground out when the blade was finished.

I'm not trashing Randall knives. They are very good designs (except their knife's handles) which I relly like (otherwise I wouldn't had bought the knife) ,but unfortunately they've obviosuly decided to compromise the quality (hardness) of their blades in order to meet excessive demand.It's logically, it's easier and less costly to grind softer steel than those properly/decently hardened.


I'm not trying to call you a liar or say that you just want to complain. I'm saying that before you trash a company or maker publicly, especially one with such a reputation, that you should give them the chance to make things right.
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hey I too am m not trying to call you or bruce(who claims owned over 30 Randalls) or not2sharp liar or other blinded Randall apolgists
I'm saying before you buy a Randall be aware of fact you primarily pay for a brand and not for real quality. Randall knives were degraded by people who buy them and use them as fancy show items and not as hard users-consequently the quality has significantly dropped.
 
Originally posted by not2sharp
Scyth seems to be simply our latest little troll. When facts and reason do not avail, the man's intent was obviously not to question, but to harangue. Just sell the Randall if please; there are plenty of us who would love to have it. BTW, make sure you discount it deeply since yours is only RC-52 and has a terrible nick along its spine.

n2s
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individuals with not real arguments and intelligence are quick to label "troll" someone who is not parroting along their "PC" line .
btw I didn't say mine is hardened to 52 RC (that was Kevin McClung's statement-whether is correct or not I'm can't really know). I said it has to be hardened in low 50's,because a knife doesn't get damaged/dull as quickly if it's properly (high 50's) hardened .
about that nick, I smoothed it with a sandpaper and then by green polishing compound.
 
Evan Nappen send me a copy of a very early article about Randall knives. Bo was extremely honest, provided an elegant and honest description about his knives. He wanted to produce a knive that was easy to sharpen and would not break. He achieved these goals and his outfit has maintained them well. His knives have held their value and proved excellent investments for those who purchased them. Though some showed a lot of use I have never seen a broken Randal. Not bad for an outfit that has been around for this many years.
 
Scyth, most forgers do a significant amount of stock removal after forging for numerous reasons. In addition, stock thickness is often quoted for the thickest part of the blade.

As for Scyth being a troll, very few people if you asked off the street, would be anything but very angry is they waited for a long time, and payed a high price for a Randall and got a knife that performed as Scyth described. Further when seeing another knife from a friend that had the same behavior. The obvious conclusion would be reached fairly rapidly.

As for his experience not negating others, this logic also works the other way. All knives not extensively individually tested (and I don't mean just a HRC stamp), are prone to having a possible flaw. It is very possible that both Scyth and his friend got Randalls with soft edges and which will indent or roll easily.

Instead of branding Scyth a troll, and calling him a liar, which does nothing but further his argument that the knives are indeed over hyped, it would be more useful to see how the Randall knife company would handle a return in that situtation, and would they guarantee that the performance should not be as Scyth has described.

If Randall will clearly make a statement that his described performance is abnormal, then Scyth is obviously in position to get a full refund or a replacement which is expected to have better performance.

-Cliff
 
Scyth, I don't need to "claim" to have had over 30 Randall Made Knives, I have a list with their individual descriptions and measurements (weight, thickness, width, length of blade, handle, hilt, etc.). If you're interested, I could email it to you -- I thought not.

Scyth's only claim to a "bad" knife is a soft spine.

Randall Made Knives come with a warrantee, use it.
 
In my opinion Scyth isn't necessarily a Troll just because of anything he's said here, and he may have had a bad randall. I consider him a troll because he's judging the hundreds, and probalby thousands of knives that have come out of Randall's shop by two examples, and DIDN"T GIVE RANDALL A CHANCE TO FIX IT. Every knifemaker has had a problem occasionally. If you buy something, and there's a problem, and you don't attempt to get them to fix it, you have only yourself to blame. Sure, Randall may have had a problem with those two knives. That's fine. It is not Randll's fault that Scyth got upset and threw his knife in a closet, rather than attempting to get the problem fixed.
 
He has had more than a problem with a spine softness. The edge was also shown to have a lower hardness and poor edge retention compared to other knives. He also witnessed the same behavior in another knife. He also has a maker (who is very well respected by some) confirming that those problems are in fact inherent in every Randall.

Calling him a liar and a troll may convince him not to post anymore on Bladeforums. However it will also very likely to make him more hostile about the knives and say the same things, even stronger, in other forums where contrary experience may not be given. In short, this is not a very good plan unless your desire is to hurt the reputation of Randall.

The optimal way to solve the problem, is to come in with a post like :

"I have used Randall(s) before, and have not had that problem. Contrary to what McClung has stated, Randall knives have much harder edges. It looks like you had the bad luck of having seen a couple of defects. Have you tried contacting Randall about the problem. They have a forum here, you should be able to get a replacement or a refund."

Then drop one of the Randall moderators or someone at the company an email so they can address the problem. Look in the past how Will Fennell or Jerry Busse has handled such situations.

Yes, Scyth could have approached Randall for a warrenty replacement, and I am not arguing that he should not. However I can understand that with more than one knife showing the same problem and a well respected maker saying all of them are like that, and then being called a liar and a troll by Randall fans, he might not have a great incentive to deal with them again.

Scyth, I would urge you to contact Randall, you should be able to do that with a post on their forum here, or an email to one of the moderators. Let them know your concerns, and ask if the performance is as expected. It if is not, then get a refund or replacement as you desire.

-Cliff
 
However I can understand that with more than one knife showing the same problem
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It was one knife, with one nick along the spine. It didn't sharpen as well as an RC 60 folder. It is pretty hard to get any large heavy fixed blade to sharpen like a folder, and if you do would that be desirable? Under the much higher pressures generated by the larger knife that kind of thin edge would be prone to failure.

a well respected maker saying all of them are like that
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That well "respected" maker is pretty irresponsible to say that. How many knives did he sample and how were the test conducted?

n2s
 
N2S, he also saw the knife blunting faster, and a faster honing action, and directly saw quicker edge roll/indenting on a hard object, and a friend had similar issues with another Randall.

The weight of the knife generally isn't an issue with honing, because the weight you apply is usually much more than the weight of the knife. More details on the nature of the honing would be needed here, but generally you only go that light on the removal of a burr.

As for McClung, I would not support his claim, nor pretty much anthing he says about knife performance or steels in general as he is constantly contradicting himself. However, many individuals highly respect what he has to say about such issues.

His knives also sell for 1000$+ and he has been making them for quite some time with the same patterns out of the same steel (see a familiar arguement there - no I don't support that arguement either but you can't have it both ways).

Again, I would personally not support the generalization of the behavior of all Randalls from what was described in the above, however I can easily understand where such a conclusion could be reached.

My main point was that attacking the poster will not resolve the situation and will if anything simply act to confirm the belief that all Randalls are junk which will continue to be repeated whenever the subject is brought up.

-Cliff
 
I would like to thank to Cliff Stamp for his support and advice.I will either make a post on their forum or contact their moderator.
 
Glad to hear it, their customer service is supposed to be very good. However it turns out, you might want to pop back in here and update the thread.

-Cliff
 
I sent an email directly to Randallknives. When I get reply I'll make a notice here.
 
in my six years of full time making i once sent a customer a fine finished 11" chef. when the guy got it he said its everything i wanted EXCEPT you forgot to put the final cutting edge on it :footinmouth: i told him to send it back and i would pay the shipping plus give him a credit of $30 towards his next order. so send the Da$# randall back and let them have a chance to make it right!

As far as QC problems, it happens to EVERYBODY! Every single knife manufacturer has had at least one problem along the line, I garauntee it. You don't know for sure that Randall didn't RC test your knife. Have you ever seen a Rockwell tester? It basically punches a diamond pin into the blade, and then hardness is correlated to the depth of the mark. It could have tested fine where they punched it and still be soft at the edge or spine.
You really shouldn't go badmouthing randall so vehemently until you've given them a chance to fix things. [/B][/QUOTE]
 
Originally posted by Matt Shade
No need to get pissed and start acting like that, then we really won't care/beleive what you say.
You might have handled 2 randalls and not been impressed, but that doesn't negate the experience of all these other folks who like randalls. THEY DESERVE A CHANCE TO MAKE IT RIGHT PERIOD!

Randall has been around a long time, and has a lot of happy customers. I'm sure they would stand behind thier product, if you would give them the chance. They're going to want that one back, and time to evaluate it though.

As far as QC problems, it happens to EVERYBODY! Every single knife manufacturer has had at least one problem along the line, I garauntee it. You don't know for sure that Randall didn't RC test your knife. Have you ever seen a Rockwell tester? It basically punches a diamond pin into the blade, and then hardness is correlated to the depth of the mark. It could have tested fine where they punched it and still be soft at the edge or spine.
You really shouldn't go badmouthing randall so vehemently until you've given them a chance to fix things.
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I posted this a while back in the Randall forum. And got called a liar by a few folks.

Ed Fowler, I have seen a broken Randall. Standing on a concrete slab, removing a model 14 from my harness, I dropped in on the slab. Even though it was still in its sheath, it snapped just in front of thr guard. This was in 1967.

Not knocking Randall, just saying that it can happen to any product no matter what name is on it.

Example; I ordered a Winchester model 101 skeet gun many years ago. Twenty guage over/under. It had so much chrome in the chambers, a twenty ga. shell could not be inserted. So I sent it back and never touched another one.
:)
 
Les Robertson has also described multiple broken Randalls, he used to use this arguement all the time to promote Brends, as he could do with his Brend that which broke a Randall. Hood has also commented on brittle failure seen with extended chopping, the latter I think was with the stainless ones.

-Cliff
 
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