naive questions about randall

If memory serves, the model 14 was stainless. Put me off of stainless for many years. I beleive some of the early stainless products were brittle.
Saw a "famous" maker drop one of his "famous" knives at a show in the early seventies. When it hit the floor, it scattered.
 
I've contacted the Randallknives,their reply came quickly and their main response is to send them the knife if I wish and they'll test the hardness (of the blade edge) and other aspects of the blade ( they chop Florida Heart Pine with each blade to be sure it will hold an edge).Though I had to clarify certain things because the person who wrote the reply apparently only glanced over my initial email not really understanding what I was saying. On some specific questions I asked I didn't get the answer.for example I asked if such performance (I described that event resulting in that nick and also not good edge holding) was as expected . They say they specifically advise against the actions that I have described. In short,if I choose to send them the knife they will see if the knife is up to standards, and if it's not they'll make another or refund the purchase price otherwise they'll send it back.
Now the problem I see is that the knife I got is not up to standards I expected and I'm not sure whether they share the same standard.
 
From a customer point of view that responce is frustrating. You have clear problems with the knife and you can not get a firm statement on if what you are seeing is the expected behavior or not. Of course if they stated firmly that this isn't what is to be expected you would not hesitate to return the knife, but obviously when they won't commit it doesn't give you much incentive to do so.

From the manufacturers point of view - while you know you are telling the truth and clearly see all the details, they can't be sure of either. On the Busse forum awhile back an individual complained about repeating one of the rope cutting demos that Busse has done live and getting very different performance. It turns out that the person was cutting used and dirty rope, fairly different from the new rope used in demos.

That incident was quickly and efficiently resolved because Busse knew his knife should not perform like that on new hemp and this was clearly stated on the forum. Busse then called the individual as discussed the details trying to find out exactly where the problem could be coming from. How was the cutting being performed, how was the initial sharpness, details on the rope etc. .

Unfortunately you didn't get the same level of customer service from Randall and are now left wondering if you will be wasting time and money on sending back a return which could just end with "We tested the knife and it was fine.". Which to you reads as "You either don't know how to sharpen / use a knife or are a liar or our knives really are that bad." Neither arguement is likely to make you consider the process as worthwhile. In the end all you determined nothing beyond what you already knew.

If it was me, I would make a post in the Randall forum clearly stating the behavior which is problematic and asking to see if it is expected. If I didn't get a clear answer that the performance wasn't standard I would have little incentive to return the knife. You chalk it up to a bad knife purchase and in the future buy from people that will clearly and openly discuss the performance of their knives and stand behind what they have said.

Note that the knife could RC test fine in one or even several spots and still be soft in others. It could also have grain structure defects which won't show up on hardness tests. Of course if the tests shows a too low hardness there is a problem, but just because the hardness is right doesn't mean the knife is ok. In additional, soft blades (~45 HRC) can easily chop pine and harder woods, including through knots, without problems, user skill and power are critical as are the edge specifics - in any case it takes an extended wood chopping session to reach a decent conclusion unless there are really gross flaws.

-Cliff
 
I'd spend ten bucks to send it back, insured, and stick a reciept for shipping in the box with a detailed letter, explicit and professional. If there is a problem, they may very well refund your shipping, give you a new knife, and offer you some form of discount for another for your trouble. If not, you can trash them at every opportunity, ad nauseum, with no trouble to your karma. I bought a Citizen SS watch in '73 for $50. I was working summers hanging sheetrock in AF bomber hangers for $1.25 per hour.:eek: After 13 months it broke, I sent it back per Dad's instructions and they replied it was 30 days out of warranty, tough titties, and it would cost $40 to repair. Never again I vowed. In the 30 years since I have bought at least 75 watches, and nary a one Citizen untill I ran across an Aqualand Eco-Drive for <300, and my son said "Dad, how long can you carry a grudge? You know you gotta have it". Well, I hate having bought that watch when it's not on my wrist. I like it fine, but that was a long, hot summer, and a week's pay. I should NOT have bought the second watch.
 
I don't think it is fair to compare the Busse response to the Randall response. In one case you have the president of the company and in the other you have the poor schmuck in warranty/repair. Even if you post in the Randall forum, it's not fair to expect the same type of public reply. Randall and Busse have distinctly different corporate personalities, Busse's more in your face than most companies, but that's no reason to expect other companies to be the same. Some companies handle "issues" like this off-line for a variety of sound business reasons.

The poor schmuck in warranty is probably trained in the basics to help customers, but the real experts are in the back room. However, those guys make more money, thus the schmuck is schooled to tell you to send it in, we'll take a look. I think you got a reasonable response from the company. Remember, Randall has no idea what this knive is like, how the edge has been profiled, etc., plus one man's nick is another man's rolled edge.
 
brownshoe :

In one case you have the president of the company and in the other you have the poor schmuck in warranty/repair.

Yes, that was kind of the point. Busse will actually personally act to solve these kinds of problems, they are not delegated individuals with possibly a less than adequate knowledge of the knives.

-Cliff
 
I've been treated fairly by Gary Randall each time I've dealt with him. Let's not get the cart before the horse. If the knife is sent, and it should be, let's wait for the verdict before we assign blame. I have a prediction of a new knife. RMK doesn't want their name trashed anymore than anyone else does and certainly not at the expense of one knife.

Bruce
 
I am curious as well.

I recieved a Randall catalog back in May but I've been hesitant to make my order.

I also considered buying a No. 25 on ebay but haven't yet. One of the No. 25's that was posted on ebay had a sheath that had the stitching vey close to the edge of the leather. In my opinion, it was a defect.

The good thing about buying such a knife on ebay is that you get to actually examine the photos and even ask to see more photos. You get to see the color of the stag, etc, etc.

The bad thing about buying an ebay knife is that you would have to deal with the seller if you were not saticfied.

I would hate to be the guy who waited three years for his knife and it show up with a poorly stitched sheath as the knife that I saw posted on ebay.

I definitly don't need as many knives as I own. I just want the best desinged, best performing knife I can find and the older I get the more I'm willing to pay for a perfectly knife.

I've become a collector by default. I buy knives to use. If they don't perform I put them in a box with the other rejects. I've learned a lot about knives and what works well for me.

I've never owned a Randall but from what I've learned, their #25 is designed well and if I like the way they deal with Scyth, I may buy one.

Cheers,
Collector
 
Please email me.

I'd be more than happy to take the defective overpriced Randall off your hands, and add it to the other 50 some-odd 'good' RMK's that we already have.

Thanks for your consideration in this matter.

Mel
 
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