National Id..... Whaaaat?

munk said:
Green Ice; your opinion is valued and now you've let off some steam I trust this is the end of rhetoric between you and Danny.

munk

I want to honor Uncle Bill's memory so I've tried to keep my comments low key (at least for me). You will hear no more responses from me on this matter.

Ice
 
Thomas Linton said:
There is a provision that the data be available for a national database. So now, "they" will KNOW:

1. Your legal name
2. Your d of b
3. Your gender
4. Your license/ID card #
5. What your face looks like when you applied for the license/ID card
6. The address of your "principle" place of residence
7. What your signature that you placed on the application looks like.

OMG! :eek: >

Yes, but what other data will be added to the database in the futute? Once it is implemented in the form of a national ID, it would be easy to start collecting more data.

I agree with the opinion of Bruce Schneier. This will run into a number of implementation problems, and will probably be ineffective.

Danny, at this point in time, most people probably don't care about a natl. ID or they think that it would be a good idea. I think it would be a better to educate real people rather than trying to educate that subspecies known as "politicians".
 
Thomas Linton said:
1. Your legal name
2. Your d of b
3. Your gender
4. Your license/ID card #
5. What your face looks like when you applied for the license/ID card
6. The address of your "principle" place of residence
7. What your signature that you placed on the application looks like.

OMG! :eek: >

Thanks for all the great info, i still do not understand how the above will compromise my privacy as a citizen. That info on me and more is already available in various forms, readily accessable by our government. At a State level it is certianly there if you drive...most (every thing but 5) of that is there at a Federal level if you pay taxes.

alf
 
munk said:
Danny,
It's very easy to disagree with Ice without using harsh language.

Though one can generalize that power and money control all, the public will is very important too. Noam Chomsky had a great model in manufactured consent, what he is unwilling to understand is that consent can be manufactured by a variety of ideologies, not just the Right/industrial complex, as he sees it.

Consider too that being proactive with the political process makes for a healthier individual as well as society. Unless of course, one become filled with too much rancor and bitterness. Trying helps.


munk
Green Ice; your opinion is valued and now you've let off some steam I trust this is the end of rhetoric between you and Danny.

We know change is an uphill battle. Everyone knows the odds against change are always stacked by power and money.

Funny thing is if you change public opinion, power and money must listen. - Munk
******************************************************
YES, AN EMPHATIC YES! I often engage in the political process, as much as I can, on a regular basis. - iBear
******************************************************
However, it does little good to call your representatives. They basically do what they want or what their party tells them to do. Even the good ones cannot personally read the thousands of pages of laws that they are asked to sign into being. At best our reps depend on staffers to give them a rough idea about what they are about to sign. The respective political party basically dictates the way they vote. - Green Ice
******************************************************
In my experience, this political process is very difficult and to change an issue, very hard... but, not impossible. Working together makes it a fun thing to do! So, I also agree with Danny and Green Ice at the same time! Now, how to make this political process effective..... that is another story and a different issue entirely. Much of my free time has been spent doing what Danny recommends. It is a worthwhile pursuit and not really a lost cause. The secret is unity of numbers, together everyone achieves more. Working together with other like minded people, will really impinge where an individual won't accomplish as much on his own. Like most things their are secrets of the trade. Ways to get things done. The second secret is that, with publicity you will save many hundreds of hours of effort. Last is that persistance of purpose is king!

Anyway, I agree with all of you. I'm not really a diplomat at this. It is just that I think that Danny is right.... you can change things. Learning how to do this process is an art and I do not claim to know much, except, I know to always tell the truth or just don't mention it at all! Many people know much more than I will ever realize.... and to those people I bow. Danny and Green Ice are more in agreement then they realize. This is a difficult process! Concentrate on the desired outcome, not the negative aspects of the process! Anyway, that is how I see it, more or less. ;) ;) ;)
Thanks,

iBear
 
Green Ice said:
I want to honor Uncle Bill's memory so I've tried to keep my comments low key (at least for me). You will hear no more responses from me on this matter.

Ice
You are right, but change can be accomplished... it is just difficult!
Thanks,

iBear
 
Passing on some sent to me:

"If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. They'll have
enough to eat, a bed and a roof over their heads and a guard at the door.”
- Dwight Eisenhower

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to
gain ground.
- Thomas Jefferson

Man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and
effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As
government expands, liberty contracts.
- Ronald Reagan

I believe there are more instance of the abridgement of the freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by
violent and sudden usurpations.
- James Madison


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
-Dante Alighieri, poet (1265-1321)
 
With our porous border to the south, we are now in a really bad sutuation. Osama's Revenge: The Next 9/11 and What the Media and the
Government Haven't Told You" by Paul Williams
(Prometheus Books)
He has been making the rounds on the talk shows and trying to get Congress to listen to him . No one refutes his staements and I for on believe him. He says there are 20 suitcase and tactical nukes already in this country. Bought from the Russians, moved by the Chechyns and into this country by the Albanian Mafia through our ports and MS13 across the border. Couple that with 5000 sleepers and you fill in the rest. Houston is prime target. Imagine taking out over 50% of the oil refineries in this country. They are all clustered and one suitcase nuke would do it. Now add Wall Street, Washington D.C..The economy would tank in a matter of weeks. You want to see oppressive government, let a nuke go off in this country.
Terry
 
You don't have to make guesses about the Russian mob, cargo ships, or our border with Mexico to know that somewhere in the Western World, probably here, a nuke or biological agent event will occur. When it does, perhaps those who don't 'get it' now will, providing of course they weren't in the zero zone.
It will be interesting to see what new controls the Government will implement at that time. I'm guessing more gun control laws.

munk
 
Nuclear weapons are very high maintenance. If they still worked, and were in the hands of the worst wingnuts, I think they already would have been used.

The smaller they are, the harder to start a chain reaction, and thus the harder to keep in working order. Exquisite timing and precisely shaped charges are required to initiate the reaction. Without testing, it seems unlikely that a decade(s?) old miniature nuke could be reverse-engineered back to working order.

Could be a source of material for a "dirty bomb, I guess, but the material would have to be re-worked into a form for physical dispersal, which is kinda difficult without the proper facilities--you die.

I think that there are other things at the top of the list to worry about.

I think the major value of such items, if they exist in the wrong hands is "bluffing fodder".
 
I wonder how old all those suitcase nukes really are. Have read that we lost a couple in Nicaraugua (sp?) but maybe that was just a tale.

Ice
 
Heck, a regular program of mass-mailing envelopes of anti-statically-treated inert white powder would screw things up pretty good for a while.

Simple, cheap, and easy.

Then after nobody cares any more, send something if available.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Kinda like the patient car thief setting of the car alarm every night until the irate owner turns it off.

Use our hysteria against ourselves--if all the useless airline searches gum things up, imagine trying to seriously inspect all the mail.

I'm quite honestly surprised more mailings haven't occurred.
 
Back
Top