Need a good folder for diving and boating.

[brownshoe]

I've got three Boye dendritic steel knives. One I use all the time in the kitche, a full sized Basic. This knife will often get "dull" to the touch but still cut a tomatoe. I know it's anectodal, but it ain't hype, and I have no other knife that will do that. I sharpen all my kitchen knives the same way, so it's not because the Boye has a higher grit edge than other knives.

By the way, Boye's pocket knives have had the same "shallow hollow grinds" for years. Boye's fixed blades are flat ground. However, unlike his fixed blades, the pocket knives are a lot thinner than his flat ground knives. My Boye folder is thinner than any spyderco I have.

 

[STR]

Both the Boye knives I have are very thin also. I always attributed that as a big part of the reason they cut so well.

I still say this little folder is as impressive a cutter as I've got. I don't think it holds its edge as good as D2 or S30V but it is certainly better in my mind than AUS8 or 440C even. At least compared to the knives I also own in those two steels.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

By the way, Boye's pocket knives have had the same "shallow hollow grinds" for years.

Yeah, I was just expecting something different based on using the fixed blades.

My Boye folder is thinner than any spyderco I have.

At the spine, yes, the edge is ground quite thin as well, but the grind is shallow and the edge isn't more acute.

I still say this little folder is as impressive a cutter as I've got.

I would likely say it as well had I not used the knives I had which performed better obviously.

-Cliff

 

[David Boye]

Cliff, I have read the comments in this thread, and your observations about my dendritic cobalt folders are very different from my own and my customers' experience with the knives. I am wondering if you were shipped a blade(s) that was improperly ground (e.g., bevels too blunt) by our factory. Would you be willing to send us these knives for inspection and/or re-grinding?

My feedback from customers, Cliff, is that the vast majority that have actually used these knives LOVE them. I have many superlative letters from sailors and other deep use adventurers praising the features of the knife and its performance in extreme situations - its reliability, flatness, lightness, safe either hand opening and closing, two point titanium clip, and the new titanium marlinspike-sewing awl. But DOGGED EDGE HOLDING is the quality most appreciated by the long-term users of the product. I have never seen anything but cleanly parted line - no bird's nests even after thousands of cuts.

With a knife taken out of our stock (not specially ground) at the 2004 Pacific Sail Show in Oakland, California, I made around 1,500 cuts of 5/8" rigging and deck line, in public view, without resharpening the knife, including 10 cuts of 5/8" Z-Tech PBO Zylon Double Braid (this will take the edge off most knives right there). I have also cut Spectra Braid at shows hundreds of times without losing the edge. These are some of the most challenging hi-tech rigging lines that sailors are faced with far from home.

Please refer to the cutting test on our website where in 8 minutes we cut 164 cuts of these hi-tech lines. All the cuts were clean (no bird's nests) and the knife was fully functional at the end of the test without resharpening.

By the way, the hollow-grind diamater on these blades is 20".

I'm looking forward to checking out your "disappointing" blades.

Sincerely,
David Boye

 

[Pete1977]

My curiosity is piqued now.
I cut rope hundreds of times a day at work, and am in a harsh salt water environment. I would like to test one of these knives out for myself.

The price is a little high and money is tight but if anyone has any input where I can get one for short money, drop a line please.

Thanks
Peter

 

[STR]

Shomer tec has them for $124 as I recall. I love my two Boye knives. The latest one that I just bought from David has been seeing more pocket time than I expected it to because I just love the blue handle and how well it blends in with jeans. My old one is yellow. Of course I love everything else I've already mentioned about these knives also.

I take either my Boye or my Spyderco Salt 1 with me for my bike rides everyday, sometimes both. Nothing better than a knife you don't have to worry about hurting or pitting out when you are riding 20 or more miles in the heat sweating all over it. They are great outdoor knives for active people.

Personally, I don't care much what Cliff says regarding this particular test he did on the Boye folder. The Boye knife cuts very well, is easy to sharpen and keeps it's edge in my experiences although I did notice the latest knife was not as sharp as my old one out of the box. I have figured that since I bought the old one used that someone reprofiled it already to the kind of edge I like. You may have to reprofile the new one once you get it to make it cut better in certain mediums the way you like it to, if not rope, but I've been very happy and impressed for the most part with both of mine.

On the topic of the test: when you have one man out of hundreds if not more that says the opposite of what everyone else says and experiences with a product you have to wonder what is the matter with this picture, particularly when that one someone writes tests for many manufacturers and makers products. My first impressions of my new Boye were that the edge was not that good and I did infact have to reprofile it to suit me. Once done however, it has proven to be as good as the used one I bought some time back.

Cliff has a following to some extent and many people including myself read his reviews regularly. We don't always agree with each other but most of the time we are on the same page. I like what Cliff does, but take a lot of it with a grain of salt so to speak. Others seem to think he walks on water and that can be detrimental to sales of particular items he writes up with a negative slant as in this test. Not that this is Cliff's problem. Just that maybe in the future when it is apparent that the tests have gone completely opposite of everyone elses experiences with a knife, maybe it is time to pick up the phone or look up an email and contact the maker (s) personally before making things public???

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I am wondering if you were shipped a blade(s) that was improperly ground (e.g., bevels too blunt) by our factory.

The plain edge one had an edge just barely visible, <0.010", and ground at 30-25 degrees included. The serrated one was ground 0.020" thick at back of the edge with the scallops cut at ~15 degrees.

Neither were very sharp NIB (no shaving ability) I touched up the plain edge one after some light edge work to a hair popping finish. Even then though it could not match the more efficient flat ground blades I have in terms of anything beyond shallow cutting.

The primary grind is narrow and thus the blade hits full thickness relatively quick, on small ropes this doesn't matter because they open up and thus just the edge influences cutting ability however as soon as I moved onto general cutting the relative performance was low.

Now for the plain edge one I was using it more as a general utility knife, however eut even for ropes I got much better cutting ability from other knives, especially in regards to the serrated one which had little aggression NIB compared to a Spyderco Alantic Salt.

My feedback from customers, Cliff, is that the vast majority that have actually used these knives LOVE them.

From what baseline of performance are your users judging the knives. How many other knives in that price range have they used.

I sold those two knives on Ebay a couple of months back, both of the guys were very pleased with them. In fact one guy was so eager that he made it clear that if I didn't get payment for the other one, or had any problems he would take it for the winning price, no questions asked.

However consider that you can find the same level of statements about any knife or product in general, even the really inexpensive ones which don't tend to have much in the way of performance will impress many.

What I would ask is how many of your customers have used knives like the Benchmade 710HSS, Rat Trap, Calypso Jr., and other really efficient cutting blades. How would these knives do alongside yours in side by side tests.

Busse for example has done thousands of cuts live with his blades with just a small section of the edge of the knife, not the whole blade. He never stopped to sharpen, and they retained shaving ability for a long time, well past 1000 cuts on full one inch thick hemp.

I don't doubt your knives can do what you said, you have done it live. I have just compared them side by side to other knives and found them out performed in regards to edge retention, I checked on cardboard, woods, hemp, and poly.

...I made around 1,500 cuts of 5/8" rigging and deck line, in public view, without resharpening the knife, including 10 cuts of 5/8" Z-Tech PBO Zylon Double Braid (this will take the edge off most knives right there). I have also cut Spectra Braid at shows hundreds of times without losing the edge. These are some of the most challenging hi-tech rigging lines that sailors are faced with far from home.

Have you done this with other knives from other makers and have not been able to match the performance? If you are saying that your knives will significantly outlast the ones I mentioned on those brands of rope then I would be more than willing to buy another one and run it against a Alantic Salt and either a Rat Trap or Military, or possibly both. You still have my credit card. I have moved so drop me an email and I'll send you the new one.

-Cliff

 

[STR]

Atlantic Salt?

Wouldn't a better test be to run it against a same or similar size blade? Maybe a Salt 1: as the Salt 1s are about the same size and with close to the same size cutting surface and blade length as the Boye folders.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

In the above I referenced work done by various blades to support the statements I made regarding performance. If this is contended on the basis of sample irregularity then it should be repeated with the same knives as a control check.

In general though the Salt I, which is a Delica pattern with a H1 blade is a much more similar knife and would make a good starting point for a Boye / Spyderco contrast. I only got interested in the H1 series later, had I known about them before last x-mas I would have picked up a set to run directly against the Boye's.

-Cliff

 

[Sal Glesser]

Regarding the posting on these two knives I think I would like to share some
thoughts with you.

First of all David Boye is an excellent knife maker. He wrote a book that
Bob Terzuola used to learn how to make knives. He is not a beginner in this
area. He has excellent designs and builds them with passion and caring. He
has developed some materials that are extraordinary in their features.

David Boye is an honorable man, one of the few factories to actually pay us
royalties when our hole opener patent was in force. He is the reason we
have the "Boye dent" in our lockbacks.

To argue over whether or not the Salts are better is in my opinion is an
unrealistic comparison. They are two concepts, and two different solutions
created by two different people of kindred spirit. I have the upmost
respect for David Boye. I believe the most mature approach to this question
is no better, no best, all good, just different. Each have their advantages and disadvantages.

I must say I have enjoyed all of the information shared and I am truly
impressed that everyone involved is both knowledgable and has true
conviction in their beliefs. And I thank all of you for the information
shared. We have dendridic cobalt prototypes at Spyderco that David Boye was kind enough to help us develop a number of years ago. We never went into production on the pieces but poor quality or poor performance was never in question.

I have and used David Boye folders as well as Salts. I enjoy and
appreciate them both. In a salt water environment, they both excell better than any other folders on the market today, IMO.

Sal

 

[knifetester]

You are a class act Sal.

 

[STR]

Well said Sal. But truthfully the test should include like knives of basically the same size and for the same use IMO. Comparing a Boye folder to a Chinook makes no sense to me: as was done in the first review that was stopped short as I recall. Two very different knives there.

Comparing David's knife to the Atlantic Salt is close but the Atlantic Salt may have an edge advantage from the longer blade. The Salt 1 is the best choice but any of the 'marine use' knives should all be tested together. It would even make sense to compare the Salt 1 to other Bench Made products as well as David's knife and others like those used in the Practical Sailor review, that David's knife came out on top in by the way.

I don't think you would see a review done on automobiles where a Honda Prelude and a Jeep Cherokee were compared together. Makes no sense, nor does it make sense to compare a kitchen knife or fillet knife to a field knife used for skinning. In the sales areana these items all have their competitors. That is where the comparisons should be made. When someone looks for a David Boye knife they want it compared to another like knife. When I looked for a mountain bike I didn't want to do comparisons to a road bike before buying you see?

I hate to think that these tests are all about winning and losing. I like to think they are more geared toward 'education, learning and growing' for all of us (when they are done fairly side by side with like use cutlery that competes with each other in sales)

I salute your comments here Sal and David's also. In fact, while I'm at it and since no one else has said it: Welcome to the blade forum David. It is good to see you here. I look forward to hearing more of your input now and again as I'm sure others do as well.

Your book was the first knife making book I bought and I can honestly say I'm a much better and more knowledgeable knife maker because of the inpact and information shared in that book: "Step by Step Knife Making, you can do it." I highly recommend this book to anyone that is beginning in the craft of making their own knives. So, thanks.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Comparing a Boye folder to a Chinook makes no sense to me: as was done in the first review ...

The review wasn't a comparison of a Boat knife and a Chinook II. It included one paragraph which mentioned the Chinook II which was :

"However after carrying both for a few days, it was obvious that the edge retention of the cobalt was not in the same league as the current high end stainless steels. It was carried alongside a S30V Chinook II from Spyderco which stayed sharp through multiple sharpenings of the Boye knife."

I used the Chinook II simply as a steel reference and the edge angle was similar and I was evaluating it at the time. Now in general reviews do contain extensive comparisons to other blades, often as references and often very different designs, and often they are the same blades over and over.

These thus serve as a common benchmark and as well to illustrate the advantages and drawbacks of a design. As I have noted before the reviews are not simple rankings, they are meant to be an exploration of performance. You have to not simply look at what is done but the conclusions drawn from it.

Comparing David's knife to the Atlantic Salt is close but the Atlantic Salt may have an edge advantage from the longer blade.

When I do cutting comparisons on rope and similar I restrict the length of the blade so this has no effect.

-Cliff