Need advice on hanging this lugged Red Warrior

[Twindog]

Thanks, Agent H. Those are fine hangs, and I learned quite a bit from your photos -- especially since I just went through the process and know the main issues. Those points were just do darned crimped. Normally, I set aside an couple hours to do a hang. I should have taken a lot more time with this one.

But I'm guessing it will work fine, and if it doesn't, I'll know better on the rehang.

Thanks for posting those photos and for the explanation. Much appreciated.

 

[Woodcraft]

Once those bays got off by just a bit, the whole hang went sideways.

Cutting them in in small segments (steps) allows for adjustments. And letting the head guide you is the best way. With vintage heads the ears are seldom even. They are definitely a pain. And to be honest thining the whole handle is more work, but less complicated then cutting the ears in.

 

[Agent_H]

Thanks, Agent H. Those are fine hangs, and I learned quite a bit from your photos -- especially since I just went through the process and know the main issues. Those points were just do darned crimped. Normally, I set aside an couple hours to do a hang. I should have taken a lot more time with this one.

But I'm guessing it will work fine, and if it doesn't, I'll know better on the rehang.

Thanks for posting those photos and for the explanation. Much appreciated.

You're welcome Twindog. My input was just me thinking about it after you asked. I took those photos and after reading your first post and didn't refresh the thread to read the other response posts - which all are helpful and wise advice.

I did notice your dremel tool. The sanding band in my one picture is only there halfway - the unsupported part rounds over the rubber.

Normally this is properly installed:

But when you start with it like this it makes it pretty easy to round the edges of the "bay" from the shoulder to the tongue as it gives over the end some.
Straight or in an "arc" under the lugs.

Ends up wearing like this one:

But what I didn't have to contend with is the lugs on mine being pinched in - that is a challenge in itself.

I think that is a great looking axe for sure.

 

[Twindog]

Just to close out this hang after overnight soaking in BLO:

I took some of the advice above and cleaned up the bay boundary with a file and sandpaper. I let the sawdust mix with waterproof glue. Not as good as the examples posted above, but OK for now.

And because I lubed the wedge with Axe Guard by mistake (rather than Swel-Lock), I thought I’d better add some mechanical protection against the wedge sliding out. I used a small copper nail on each side of the haft, long enough to penetrate the wedge. A little hokey, but I was out of bailing wire and it feels like it will work.

 

[cityofthesouth]

I don't cut them in. I just hang them the same way I would any other pattern - thin the tongue and shoulder and remove material in the tight spots until it's seated. With an axe that's going to be splitting in particular, I don't want the shoulder to be fat.

hoffman_axe_fit by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
3lbtruetemper_fit by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

 

[Twindog]

Beautiful hangs, COTS. I just dream of being able to do that kind of work.

The next time, I'm going to do it the way you suggest. My concern on this hang was the tips on the lugs, which would have required me to thin the shoulders to a little more than half an inch. Intuitively, that felt too thin. As it is, the shoulders are only slightly raised above the lugs, and I thinned them quite a bit.

I can see that this axe was designed to be thin at the eye. At center eye, the head on this Red Warrior is narrower than the GFB Small Forest Axe. I should have trusted the design and just gone with it.

 

[jake pogg]

I'm glad to see COTS weigh in on this....

Twindog,i share your reservations in re these specific parameters...Thin haft,yea,but This thin?!...Under 0.7",for a what,close to 3 lbs axe?!!!!

 

[cityofthesouth]

Beautiful hangs, COTS. I just dream of being able to do that kind of work.

The next time, I'm going to do it the way you suggest. My concern on this hang was the tips on the lugs, which would have required me to thin the shoulders to a little more than half an inch. Intuitively, that felt too thin. As it is, the shoulders are only slightly raised above the lugs, and I thinned them quite a bit.

I can see that this axe was designed to be thin at the eye. At center eye, the head on this Red Warrior is narrower than the GFB Small Forest Axe. I should have trusted the design and just gone with it.

I know the feeling. It's remarkable how much faith tool makers had in a piece of wood. Tiny little eyes on what seem like huge hammers or axes. That's just a 3lb Jersey in my second picture - it and light weight Connies have very narrow eyes. Good wood starts to maybe matter a little more in situations like these but it also speaks to the intended purpose of the axe as well. But note I said "I do this" ... not "this is the correct way". I am confident your axe and hang, will serve you well.

 

[Square_peg]

As Jake surmised your lugs are surely pinched and need to be opened up. A large cold chisel from the hardware store should make a suitable drift for this easy work. Some heat from a propane torch would help as well. Work one side at a time while leaving the opposite side cool for the drift to push against. Metal moves where it's warmest. Once one side is aligned cool it and heat the opposite side.

I've done this to several axes with just a blowtorch and an improvised drift. It's not difficult. No need to heat up the forge.

Tie a wet rag around the bit just to make sure you don't effect the temper. The eye is supposed to be soft to resist cracking so don't worry about heating it.

 

[jake pogg]

Thanks,Square_peg,for saying all that above.

Cityofthesouth,i understand what you mean,and am often puzzled myself looking at the small eyes of many sledges et c.,However,in THIS case,you must've not carefully read the measurements stated:I've just measured my Red Warrior,and at the width of the points of langettes it's damn near 7/8".
In an eye 2 9/16" long it's a rather decent volume of hickory.
To reduce this to 0.6+ would be horseshit,boss,with all my infinite respect for your beautiful hangs...

 

[Twindog]

Thanks, Square Peg. I guess I had three choices: cut in a couple of deep bays, thin the haft a lot or spread the lugs. Each approach has something to say for it. I went the bay route, which was a hassle because of the three methods, this one required the most craftsmanship skills. Despite my mediocre skills and haste, it seems to have worked.


I took the Red Warrior out for a chopping session, and it’s rock solid. The head didn’t move at all on the haft. I chopped a test log that I’ve used for other axes. It did pretty well — although because of geometry and handle length, not hang. With half the chops, it cut a V twice as deep as my smaller Council Hudson Bay. It did want to stick a bit, but nothing troublesome. Sent big chips flying.


I did some normal chopping, including some off angle strikes to test the strength of the thin haft. I hammered on a log with the poll. And I did a few not-too-hard over-strikes on both sides, hitting just below the lugs to get a feel for how solid that thinned haft is. It’s solid. Felt good. I’m not worried about this axe.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I learned a lot with this hang.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Thanks,Square_peg,for saying all that above.

Cityofthesouth,i understand what you mean,and am often puzzled myself looking at the small eyes of many sledges et c.,However,in THIS case,you must've not carefully read the measurements stated:I've just measured my Red Warrior,and at the width of the points of langettes it's damn near 7/8".
In an eye 2 9/16" long it's a rather decent volume of hickory.
To reduce this to 0.6+ would be horseshit,boss,with all my infinite respect for your beautiful hangs...

Haha, I don't entirely follow you but I was addressing the perception not the reality. In reality there may or may not have been lots of material, but the perception was that it seemed very thin and I was just sharing my experience with that same notion. Compared to that Hoffman or full size trade patterns I've hung in the past 7/8ths is nothing - plenty - but certainly not on the fat end of the spectrum.

 

[cooperhill]

Agent_H is right on. It is easier for me to trim the whole shoulder. Creating a specific area for the lugs creates a shelf which has the potential to work the axe head loose with use.

picture doesn't really show it well but it just extends the area that you would normally rasp or remove further down the shoulder.

 

[garry3]

As Jake surmised your lugs are surely pinched and need to be opened up. A large cold chisel from the hardware store should make a suitable drift for this easy work. Some heat from a propane torch would help as well. Work one side at a time while leaving the opposite side cool for the drift to push against. Metal moves where it's warmest. Once one side is aligned cool it and heat the opposite side.

I've done this to several axes with just a blowtorch and an improvised drift. It's not difficult. No need to heat up the forge.

Tie a wet rag around the bit just to make sure you don't effect the temper. The eye is supposed to be soft to resist cracking so don't worry about heating it.

I do similar.
I set the head across open jaws of a vise. I use two rail road spikes sistered up as a drift. Localized heat.

 

[Twindog]

It's been a little more than two years, and this lugged Red Warrior axe has seen it all. I loaned it to a neighbor who learned to split wood on this axe. You can see all the over-strikes. She left it out in the rain. Beat the holy ghost out of it. And then left it laying outside in the dirt after she left. It split about 12 cords of wood -- fir, spruce, hemlock and alder.

It wasn't my best looking hang, and I wondered if it would hold up at all. But, dang. Once these lugged axes get a bite on your hickory, they don't let go. She's still as tight as a Scottish tick. Thought you all would like to see the long-term performance of this troubled hang.

 

[ithinkverydeeply]

I loaned it to a neighbor who learned to split wood on this axe. You can see all the over-strikes. She left it out in the rain. Beat the holy ghost out of it. And then left it laying outside in the dirt after she left.

Yikes! With friends like that...

Thanks for the update!

 

[Yankee Josh]

I don't cut them in. I just hang them the same way I would any other pattern - thin the tongue and shoulder and remove material in the tight spots until it's seated. With an axe that's going to be splitting in particular, I don't want the shoulder to be fat.

hoffman_axe_fit by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
3lbtruetemper_fit by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

Edit; I see now it's a Liam Hoffman. Would you mind sharing the brand of axe in the top photo? It's very nice looking. I think I might just need one if they're available... Beautiful hangs btw...!

It's been a little more than two years, and this lugged Red Warrior axe has seen it all. I loaned it to a neighbor who learned to split wood on this axe. You can see all the over-strikes. She left it out in the rain. Beat the holy ghost out of it. And then left it laying outside in the dirt after she left. It split about 12 cords of wood -- fir, spruce, hemlock and alder.

It wasn't my best looking hang, and I wondered if it would hold up at all. But, dang. Once these lugged axes get a bite on your hickory, they don't let go. She's still as tight as a Scottish tick. Thought you all would like to see the long-term performance of this troubled hang.

The proof is in the pudding! For all the trouble it caused you it sure turned out a great hang. Well done!

 

[disduster]

looks good. I did a jersey with lugs this weekend, I used a dremel with a wood carving bit. Worked great.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Edit; I see now it's a Liam Hoffman. Would you mind sharing the brand of axe in the top photo? It's very nice looking. I think I might just need one if they're available... Beautiful hangs btw...!


The proof is in the pudding! For all the trouble it caused you it sure turned out a great hang. Well done!

Dang, memories ... would you just look at those damn fine handles.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Job well done then!

It's been a little more than two years, and this lugged Red Warrior axe has seen it all. I loaned it to a neighbor who learned to split wood on this axe. You can see all the over-strikes. She left it out in the rain. Beat the holy ghost out of it. And then left it laying outside in the dirt after she left. It split about 12 cords of wood -- fir, spruce, hemlock and alder.

It wasn't my best looking hang, and I wondered if it would hold up at all. But, dang. Once these lugged axes get a bite on your hickory, they don't let go. She's still as tight as a Scottish tick. Thought you all would like to see the long-term performance of this troubled hang.