Need advice on heat treating 80CRV2

Seedy Lot said:
Ok I tried best to replicate your ht treat today using Steel Barron 80CrV2. It is cold here and I was only able to heat my 4 gallons of Park 50 to 109°F.

First Rockewell check with only surface grinding the bottom side so I could see what decarb was like, 62-63 Rc.

After I ground of 0.010 inches 64 Rc.
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I really appreciate you testing it for me. I sometimes have trouble knowing what my files are reading. I'm not sure if I'm pressing them too hard? I do a lot of pressure on them. Sometimes I get scuffs, when it skates and I don't know if that means it's softer than the file? I'm not sure if minor scuffs are considered biting? Whenever I test, I remove decarb and an grind them horizontally (down the blade) then I run the files against them so I can see any scratches/scuffs. I don't have a rockwell tester (is it a worthwhile investment?).
 
Seedy Lot said:
K Keanen I recomend you send coupons to a friendly maker with a Rockewell tester so you can get a better understanding of what is going on with your heat treat. Shooting in the dark is never the best option and even listening to some of the self proclaimed experts might leave you astray or muddle the matters.
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Thanks. I was wondering about that. Rick Hinderer doesn't live too far from me. He showed me and my family around his shop one evening and offered to run some tests for me. It's been a while since we chatted with him, but I might see if I can catch up and run some tests to gauge where my hardness stands. I always doubt my self with reading my rockwell files.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Just a note abbot Parks #50 oil temperature.
While it will work at 120°F, it is designed with a RANGE of 50°-120°. It woks optimally at room temp- 70-80°F.

If you start at the max temp of 120°F, it is counterproductive.

This is the info from two knife supply ompanies that sell Parks suppliers:

#50 QUENCH OIL Low viscosity quench oil that approaches water in quench speed, yet gives a more uniform, less severe quench than water. Recommended for open quench system operating below 120°F.
The recommended operating temperature range is ambient to 120°F.

50 QUENCH OIL is as effective at 50°F as it is at 120°F because of its low viscosity. This is a big advantage to many steel treaters who have oil quenching tanks without heaters.
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Thanks! I got two more gallons for Christmas, so now I have 3.5 gallons and it's easier to control the temperature on it (before I was working with a 1.5 gallon container). When I re-heat treated them I made sure my oil only got to 65 and they did much better!
 
That reminds me; I did some Blue #2 steel blades in Parks 50, but it was after some other blades were quenched. Those blades didn't harden consistently at all, either! I think the Parks 50 was too hot when I did it after doing the other blades.
 
There are lots of comments here about "room temp" Parks.
Right now my room temp is 10 degrees F.
This summer it was 95 degrees F.
Heat your oil to the temp it can get any time of year all on its own. Since it can get to about 90+ degrees in the summer, that's what I heat it to all year round.
It's all about consistency.
Just don't over heat it.
And 80CrV is notorious for decarb, especially at those austenizing temps. If you over heat it, the decarb is horrible.
That said, I use much slower oil from Great Lakes Oil that is a direct replacement for the old Texaco "A" and heat it to 150 degrees for 80CrV.
It gets it harder than wood pecker lip[s.
 
Keanen said:
Thanks for the reply. It was purchased from Pop's. I went ahead and followed your heat treat recipe and I'd say that 65 rockwell left scuffs, but didn't bit in. It was definitely much harder than previously. I think it came out nice after temper, but I'll let you know how it does after I do some testing. Thanks a lot!
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I'm pretty sure Pops sourcers their 8CRV2 from NJSB, so be aware of that. But I'm glad to hear the thermal cycling helped and you ended up with a hard blade!

It is my understanding ( I hope others correct me if I'm wrong) that Alpha gets their steel from American manufacturers and NJSB gets their low alloy from Europe. European steel isn't "ready to harden" like American steel
 
I did normalizing, grain refinement and a DET on 1/8" 80CRV2 that was around .135" thick. But the time I ground the decarb off, it was down to around .095" thick! YIKES. I learned to put the blades into a foil pouch for the cycles, then use ATP641 for the austentizing/quenching to not have to worry about decarb and scale!
 
Keanen said:
I really appreciate you testing it for me. I sometimes have trouble knowing what my files are reading. I'm not sure if I'm pressing them too hard? I do a lot of pressure on them. Sometimes I get scuffs, when it skates and I don't know if that means it's softer than the file? I'm not sure if minor scuffs are considered biting? Whenever I test, I remove decarb and an grind them horizontally (down the blade) then I run the files against them so I can see any scratches/scuffs. I don't have a rockwell tester (is it a worthwhile investment?).
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I highly recommend a hardness tester. Without it, you never know how hard your steel is and you can't be sure of your HT protocols.

I'm a few hours away from you but I have an old Wilson hardness tester that I'm not using anymore. It's yours if you want to make the drive, though you will need to make a weight stack for it.
 
Cypress Creek Knives said:
I'm pretty sure Pops sourcers their 8CRV2 from NJSB, so be aware of that. But I'm glad to hear the thermal cycling helped and you ended up with a hard blade!

It is my understanding ( I hope others correct me if I'm wrong) that Alpha gets their steel from American manufacturers and NJSB gets their low alloy from Europe. European steel isn't "ready to harden" like American steel
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AKS 80CrV2 is from Europe as well, I believe they specify how the steel is treated so it has better ht respone.
 
K Keanen I also recommend getting a Rockwell tester if you are serious about making knives as without one you are kind of clueless to what is going on with heat treat.
 
Seedy Lot said:
AKS does not say who their supplier is, they are keeping it a secret.

NJSB uses Buderus for a bunch of their steels.
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I really need to start ponying up the few extra bucks it costs to get steel from AKS. I'm getting tired of having to thermal cylce all my low alloy steels.

That being said, I am about to do a batch of NJSB 52100 so there is a bunch of thermal cylcing in my future lol
 
Cypress Creek Knives said:
I really need to start ponying up the few extra bucks it costs to get steel from AKS. I'm getting tired of having to thermal cylce all my low alloy steels.

That being said, I am about to do a batch of NJSB 52100 so there is a bunch of thermal cylcing in my future lol
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I have really come to appreciate how AKS has the low alloy setup for great ht response. Makes life so much easier.
 
Keanen said:
Hi guys. Hope you had a great Christmas!

I have been having some problems with heat treating my 80CRV2 in my kiln. I'm testing my blades with rockwell testing files and they seem to be coming out softer than they should. 60 is biting. I heated my oven to 1580 and let it preheat for 15-20 minutes. I put the blade in and soaked it for 15 minutes before quenching into 125 degree Parks 50. I thought it seemed softer than it should have been out of quench (65 bit, 60 skated but left scuffs), so I tempered at 300 degrees for 1 hour x2. My parents got me a ceramic heat treating rack from Housemade for Christmas and I am wondering if maybe I need to give it more time to heat up and that could be affecting the heat treat? (I had it preheating with the oven.) However, I had some blades that I hardened before the rack that failed chopping into deer bone and a brass rod test. I got rolling on the edge. So, I am thinking it is something with my recipe.

I appreciate any help you can give me.

Happy New Years!
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I’ve used the house made blade racks and they certainly impact heat treat. I ran coupons to confirm.
 
Cypress Creek Knives said:
I really need to start ponying up the few extra bucks it costs to get steel from AKS. I'm getting tired of having to thermal cylce all my low alloy steels.

That being said, I am about to do a batch of NJSB 52100 so there is a bunch of thermal cylcing in my future lol
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One of the benefits of forging is that you can control the structure and set things up nicely for heat treating.

Hoss
 
Taz said:
That reminds me; I did some Blue #2 steel blades in Parks 50, but it was after some other blades were quenched. Those blades didn't harden consistently at all, either! I think the Parks 50 was too hot when I did it after doing the other blades.
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That could be the problem. Looking back, my oil was 125 degrees before quench in a 1.5 gallon container. I quenched two blades, so I'm betting by the time the second blade came around it was way too hot!
 
That could be the issue! Different oils have different temperature ranges for their use and they can heat up pretty quickly. I want to make my quench tanks larger to hold more oil so I don't have to wait between quenches as much. I want to get 6" diameter, 3' tall tanks done soon! I have a 24" tall, 4" square tank for Parks 50 and a 24" tall, 6" diameter round tank for AAA, with about 3" clearance at the top of each. Anything more than 1 or 2 blades in the Parks 50 and I need to wait a bit, or put some cold metal into it or something to draw the heat out.
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
There are lots of comments here about "room temp" Parks.
Right now my room temp is 10 degrees F.
This summer it was 95 degrees F.
Heat your oil to the temp it can get any time of year all on its own. Since it can get to about 90+ degrees in the summer, that's what I heat it to all year round.
It's all about consistency.
Just don't over heat it.
And 80CrV is notorious for decarb, especially at those austenizing temps. If you over heat it, the decarb is horrible.
That said, I use much slower oil from Great Lakes Oil that is a direct replacement for the old Texaco "A" and heat it to 150 degrees for 80CrV.
It gets it harder than wood pecker lip[s.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. If I'm aiming for consistency with my recipes, I should at least try to get consistency with the oil temperatures. I'll try to keep it consistent from here on out! Thanks!
 
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