Need help! First hang

[1215]

Bumping this back up so I wouldn't have to make a new thread with the same exact title and similar question.

While I was at the hardware store yesterday I picked up a 14" handle to use for my first hang. The grain looked pretty good (very straight and no runout) and the price was excellent (under $4 with tax). I don't know if the brand is any good but its my first hang so better to ruin this haft than a HH. Is that brand any good?

Before I ask a bunch of questions I've been following this: http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf99232823/pdf99232823Pdpi300.pdf so I have some idea of what I should be doing --but I'm still very unsure about a lot of it. I'll also say that the head came to me (eBay) that way, meaning the blade, poll, etc. and I started in on sorting out the bit but I figured a dull blade for my first hang would probably be best

Questions: It's a hatchet so I'm not sure if there is such a thing with too open/closed... from the photos does that look OK? I didn't change the leading edge of the eye on the haft at all so the leading edge of the eye on the head is in line with the grain of the handle.

What do I do next??? the handle fits well into the eye but as you can see, the base of the head is not fitting perfectly around the shoulder of the haft. Do I taper the shoulder into the eye of the head and be done or do I try to profile the shoulder so it perfectly matches the base of the eye? Is the shoulder supposed to be tapered such that the head is hammered (wooden mallet) and securely seated onto the shoulder? Where can I find Swel-Lock? I asked at my hardware store and they looked at me like I had ten heads... Is $7/2oz bottle a reasonable price? That's what it shows at a few online places. I assume that would bump up closer to $15 all-in with taxes and shipping.

Do I cut down the (kerf??) notch in the top of the haft any deeper or leave it as-is? It looks almost 2/3 of the way down the head but I'd rather you guys tell me to cut more or leave alone. The haft only came with a wooden wedge, no metal and the eye is really small, do I need to go get a metal wedge or circle or just leave it alone? Do I need to widen the kerf slot any more than it is currently?

Should I taper/thin the handle down any more than it is or just leave it as my first hang and be done with it? Should I rough up the bottom few inches of the haft a little or just leave that alone? Am I missing anything?

Here are the photos... Thanks again for everyone reading and putting up with my beginner questions. Also, any idea roughly how old that head is?

EDIT: Is this the same as Swel-Lock just a different brand or should I not mess around and just order/get/use the Behlen Swel-Lock brand?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1390206

 

[Guitarist7.62]

I would cut the kerf down further, and taper the shoulder so it looks nice. You have a good fit, the tapering of the shoulder "blends" it together. No need for a metal wedge until the head starts to come loose. And link handles are pretty good, all I've used and I ain't broke one yet! But hey that's just me and what I would do, do what feels right.

 

[1215]

Thanks! What about tapering the handle? Should I just leave it alone? It looks a little big/thick compared to the head and its a little bigger/thicker than my Plumb BS with original handle --but not by much.

 

[Guitarist7.62]

Do what fits your hand. For hatchets I don't make them any thinner but they fit my hands pretty good already and don't get much shock into my hands either. And what I mean by tapering the handle is that if you look at the shoulder where it meets the head, there's a ridge and all I'd do is run a rasp around It to remove the ridge

 

[1215]

Do what fits your hand. For hatchets I don't make them any thinner but they fit my hands pretty good already and don't get much shock into my hands either. And what I mean by tapering the handle is that if you look at the shoulder where it meets the head, there's a ridge and all I'd do is run a rasp around It to remove the ridge

Like this? That looks/feels much better to me. There is still a slight gap/ridge that you can see but that is because the head is loosely on the haft, I assume once I drive it on with a wooden mallet it will disappear --or I'll file it down a little more.

How thick/thin do I need the wedge to be? It is quite long and VERY thick. do I want the wedge to go all the way down the kerf slot? I ordered Swel-Lock (eBay). How long do I need to wait? Do I apply it to the outside of the eye (between the wood and the metal), as well as in the kerf slot and both sides of the wedge? Then do I hammer in the wedge instantly or wait a few minutes/hours? How long do I wait to cut off the top of the wedge and start applying BLO?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my first hang questions. I promise I'll hang around to answer other's questions someday.

 

[1215]

Following up with some more photos and measurements regarding questions about the kerf slot and wedge.

The kerf slot is roughly 36mm at the leading edge of the eye and roughly 27.5mm at the rear (poll side) end of the eye. At that height, the wedge would be between 6mm and 7.5mm wide. That seems awfully wide to be hammering into such a small kerf slot.

How much does the poplar compress and/or how much should I thin/shave the kerf wedge? (if at all?)

I assume I need to at least make the kerf slot even on both sides (36mm deep) so the wedge goes in evenly?? yes/no??

How short should I cut the top of the haft before hammering in the wedge? Is the goal to shorten it so it is flush with the top of the eye or should I leave a little extra protruding from the top? Do I need to wait for the Swell-Lock to set before I use a coping saw to cut off the top of the kerf wedge? At that time, (cutting of kerf wedge) am I also trying to make the top of the haft flush with the top of the head?

Thanks.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

Wedge looks too thick and steep to me. You need a gentle slope if going without a steel wedge. You only want about a quarter inch above the top of the eye, so you can cut it that way now or leave slightly extra in case you need to make any more changes. A little overlap allows for the kerf to spread out and the wood flares over the edges of the eye. This makes a more secure handle for a user. Some people prefer the look of flush, it's up to you.

I'd probably thin that wedge so the top is nearly as thin as the lower line now, as I don't think you'll drive it in very far as is. If it comes up a little short it won't matter, but you do want to drive it in as far as possible. Just thin it out a little and have the angle a bit steeper than it is now.

 

[1215]

Wedge looks too thick and steep to me. You need a gentle slope if going without a steel wedge. You only want about a quarter inch above the top of the eye, so you can cut it that way now or leave slightly extra in case you need to make any more changes. A little overlap allows for the kerf to spread out and the wood flares over the edges of the eye. This makes a more secure handle for a user. Some people prefer the look of flush, it's up to you.

I'd probably thin that wedge so the top is nearly as thin as the lower line now, as I don't think you'll drive it in very far as is. If it comes up a little short it won't matter, but you do want to drive it in as far as possible. Just thin it out a little and have the angle a bit steeper than it is now.

Thanks for the reply. I assumed that the wedge wouldn't compress that much but was not sure. If that's the case should I even bother with cutting the kerf notch deeper so that its even on both sides? Should I thin out the haft in the eye more so the wedge will go deeper --or alternatively, cut the kerf notch wider?

Thanks for the reply. Don't want to screw this up...!!

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

Generally speaking, you want the kerf to be around 2/3 of the eye, which it looks like you already measured out, and it should fit in as close as possible without compressing the kerf too much. If the kerf is not compressing much then there's no reason to thin the handle down, all you can really do is thin the wedge a bit to ensure it goes as far down as possible. Deepening or widening the kerf can only serve to weaken the haft.

Dry wood, even softer woods, should not compress much. On the other side, it is actually possible to damage the axe eye if you try to force too thick of a wedge into it. So all you want is a very slight flare, enough to secure the handle so that it will not loosen in any sticking situations (this is where having the haft as close to the steel as possible all through the eye comes in, any wiggle can loosen the haft or the wedge even). Looks like you have 1/16" or so on each side of the eye, plus a 3/32" kerf. If you add those up plus a slight flare of the wood (probably 1/16 or so on each side as well, but to be honest I just go by eye) you should have an idea of how thick your wedge should be.

Some here know hangs better than I do, so maybe they could chime in on the difference between a thick wedge and a thin wedge. It seems to me that the more wood left over the more difficult it will be to cause it to flare out, so you'd need a lot of force behind the wedge. Some old-timers swore by splitting the kerf rather than using a saw, so it'd be interesting to know what those wedges look like. Might as well learn as much as you can in your first go.

 

[300Six]

Wedge looks too thick and steep to me.

My sentiments too! Store bought are generally shaped like this and I've always figured all they want to do is pop back out over the long run or not go in far enough. Seems industry used (and probably still does) softwood (namely yellow poplar) wedges which presumably really compress whereas I go much thinner and use wood that is merely somewhat softer than hickory (such as cherry/walnut etc).
As long as you don't glue this wedge in place it can removed at a later date or driven in further.

 

[Skimo]

Just make sure the wedge isn't too long, and wait to trim it for a couple weeks, chances are if you're gonna work it you'll need to sink the wedge some more after it all adjusts.

 

[1215]

I hope this is my last set of questions... Thanks everyone for reading and responding --and sorry Frank01 for totally hijacking your thread! If a moderator wants to clean this up and sticky it maybe others would have most of their "first hang" questions answered here...?

First question: Safety. What do people use on the blade during a hang/rehang? I'm VERY glad that my first hang was with a hatchet head which was about as dull as a baby spoon. I could have cut myself to pieces had I tried my first hang on a sharp head! Is a couple layers of blue painters tape enough?

Second question: Kerf/wedge size. How much force should it take to drive the wedge into the kerf slot? I thinned a lot off the wedge (see photo) but it still feels really thick. Rather than asking "how thin should it be", knowing roughly how hard it should be to drive the wedge into the kerf slot would give me a pretty good idea of how thin I need to make it.

Third question: Swell-Lock or BLO on the outside of the eye (between the metal and the wood)? With the head seated there is a little over 1/16" of the haft sticking out of the top. Should I use BLO on the lower part of the eye and Swel-Lock on the upper part to help it flare out or is that over-complicating it?

Fourth (and hopefully last) question: Once the kerf wedge is driven in I understand its time to apply BLO to the haft and top of the eye (pretty much everywhere). How much should I apply and how long should I wait before using the hatchet? I've heard people applying two coats a day until it stops absorbing and then one coat a day --but can I use it right away or should I wait a few days/coats of BLO before I put it to use? This thing is burning a hole in my pocket worse than a holiday bonus but I'd rather do it properly than blow it at the 11th hour.

If anyone else finds this thread from searching, I was SHOCKED at how hard hickory is. To make matters worse, the "sap wood" (white wood) is a lot softer than the "heart wood" (dark wood) which complicated both thinning the haft and shaping the eye. Also, I didn't realize this until I started this project, when people refer to a "bastard file" it means the cut or coarseness of the file, similar to the grit of sandpaper. No affiliation but I found this link: http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS/file...ing-Vanderv/1898-FileAndFiling-Vanderv-02.asp with two great photos explaining files and cuts. I hope they don't mind me posting their link. I ended up using two COARSE double cut files for just about all of the work. One was flat on one side and half-round on the other and the other file was the same, coarse double cut, round (like an "O"). I found the round file much easier to shape and score the grain with and then the flat coarse file easier to smooth it out and finish with. I then used an 8" flat (Vallorbe ICECUT brand, 2nd cut) file to take away the roughness created by the coarse files, and finally, a Vallorbe ICECUT brand, 6" smooth cut for finishing touches like tapering in the shoulder to the head. Once I was done with the files I then used a Scotch-Brite #7446 blending hand pad (instead of sandpaper) to finish the haft. The only other advice I can offer is to get a GOOD file brush and use it often. It makes a night & day difference with a clean file vs. one filled up with wood/junk. Also, use a proper file brush, not just any steel/metal brush.

Photos of the thinned wedge for my second question above:

Thanks

 

[Hacked]

If anyone else finds this thread from searching, I was SHOCKED at how hard hickory is. To make matters worse, the "sap wood" (white wood) is a lot softer than the "heart wood" (dark wood) which complicated both thinning the haft and shaping the eye.

/\ This is definitely true.

Now to answer your questions. Nothing on the blade, if your going to work with an axe you'd better get used to that part being sharp, maybe I'm just crazy(lazy). Coat the wedge in BLO and it shouldn't take that much force to sink it in. I drive mine home with a section of old an old haft. When it stops I set it aside for a few minutes before giving it a few more whacks and cutting the excess wedge and haft leaving a healthy bit of the haft over hanging the eye.

I recall seeing that one on eBay, I've been meaning to pick one up. The picture above is the same hatchet. It is the first axe I ever used long ago as a child. My old man found it out in the Rocky Mountains in the middle of the woods. He still has it till this day. I added a new wedge and cleaned up a the edge a little bit last year. I believe the handle is original.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

Wedge needs to be thinned all the way, and almost a uniform angle. May still be a little thick at the top, but most importantly you have to thin the middle. You don't want the wedging effect to stop at the midway point like this wedge would do.

You may also have to work around that eye so the whole thing will be in contact with the wood. As is, I don't know that the wedge will fill in all the gaps and you may have a loose handle. I mean, the widest part of the eye appears to have a greater gap to the wood than other areas. Taking a picture directly above the eye with the wedge just started would give us an idea.

 

[Hacked]

Wedge needs to be thinned all the way, and almost a uniform angle. May still be a little thick at the top, but most importantly you have to thin the middle. You don't want the wedging effect to stop at the midway point like this wedge would do.

You may also have to work around that eye so the whole thing will be in contact with the wood. As is, I don't know that the wedge will fill in all the gaps and you may have a loose handle. I mean, the widest part of the eye appears to have a greater gap to the wood than other areas. Taking a picture directly above the eye with the wedge just started would give us an idea.

The top part of the wedge only matters if it will touch the kerf IMO. Here is a picture of what I mean.

I tend to have my wedges much longer than required. I do agree that the back section of the wedge the part that will be closest to the pole needs to be wider to account for the gaps seen in the picture.

 

[1215]

Thanks for the responses.

I recall seeing that one on eBay, I've been meaning to pick one up. The picture above is the same hatchet. It is the first axe I ever used long ago as a child. My old man found it out in the Rocky Mountains in the middle of the woods. He still has it till this day. I added a new wedge and cleaned up a the edge a little bit last year. I believe the handle is original.

Nice find by your dad! The eBay listing was a set of three heads for sale: A Plumb "U.S. 1945" head, a Plumb B.S. head and a Plumb axe head. I've been wanting a Boy Scout hatchet for a while as well. The two I have (my dad & grandfather's) are complete sets and too nice to use daily. It's a perfect weight and size for what I use day to day (mostly around a fire pit in the summer or fireplace in the winter)... and if we ever have a boy I won't feel bad someday when he destroys/loses it! (Because I bought it on eBay ) A little off-topic, I found it very odd/surprising that the Plumb "U.S. 1945" head was quite a bit lighter than the Boy Scout head.

Wedge needs to be thinned all the way, and almost a uniform angle. May still be a little thick at the top, but most importantly you have to thin the middle. You don't want the wedging effect to stop at the midway point like this wedge would do.

You may also have to work around that eye so the whole thing will be in contact with the wood. As is, I don't know that the wedge will fill in all the gaps and you may have a loose handle. I mean, the widest part of the eye appears to have a greater gap to the wood than other areas. Taking a picture directly above the eye with the wedge just started would give us an idea.

Cut twice measure once?? I think I'm already too thin on the left hand side of the eye... am I SOL? I understand exactly what you mean with the wedge shape, there is a big difference between a true wedge and a rectangle that comes to a point on one side. This is why a few posts up I was asking about how much the wedge would compress. Also why I didn't feel bad buying a non-HH for my first hang --because chances are I'd screw it up. Wasn't sure if the wedge was soft enough that it would compress and the Swel-Lock would take care of the rest or if I need to start paying attention to that left-hand side gap and profiling the wedge accordingly.

The wedge is about 3mm pushed in (by hand) in the photos. Wedges are cheap and the hardware store has them in stock if I need to start over. What should I do about the gap on the left side of the eye? The eye is uneven and the haft is symmetrical... which does not solve my issue at all but it is what it is. Do I buy a new handle and start over or will a wedge that is wide enough take care of that gap?

Part of this is me and it being my first hang. The eye part of the haft tapers as it extends up from the shoulder (thinner at the top than the bottom). Hope this makes sense... If I pull the head up off of the shoulder about 1/2" the haft almost exactly matches the metal eye profile (matches almost perfectly up to the point of the kerf slot). So with the wedge inserted the RIGHT side of the haft matches the eye nearly perfectly which means all I am really trying to do is fill in that void on the left from about half way up to the top. (hope that makes sense).

Can this be fixed or should I start over?

EDIT: Thanks Hacked for your reply. I think I have enough "meat" left in the wedge to make this happen... Question is... the right side of the haft matches the eye very well in my opinion (for a first-hang) and the gap is on the right. Do I keep the right-hand side of the wedge flat and then make the left hand side of the wedge slightly wider as it moves back towards the poll? Or just make the wedge a wedge and hammer the thing down in there?

 

[Hacked]

I'd say a bigger problem you will have is that your wedge isn't long enough. That is to say it should be just a little longer than the eye of the axe so that it fills in the empty space completely. I used to make my wedges too short as I worried about them not fitting but the eye will shave away any excess for you. I think your gap on the sides will fill in quite well, you'd be surprised. Don't over think it.

Here is some advice I gave recently on hafting an axe. Pictures of my process on page 1 of the same thread. I might be doing it wrong but it's been working for me thus far.

 

[1215]

Thats the kerf wedge that came with the handle... Should I go out and buy another one that is longer? I've not touched it at all (length).

 

[Hacked]

Buy or make, it's not unusual for factory wedges to be inadequate. I believe this is because they are banking on you using the terrible metal wedge that generally comes with the handles to fill in the gaps. Obviously I don't recommend using the metal wedge. Making a wedge isn't too hard. The double bit I posted was one I made from Osage. I just take a branch and cut out a section then use my favorite hatchet for carving to split out a section and rough out the shape. I flatten it out with a rasp and taper the bottom a little with my knife so it fits into the eye and kerf with ease.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Most times the supplied wedge will probably work fine but it's usually not good enough for axe junkies. As far as compressing and how thin or how thick or whatever, every axe is different and it's not that big a deal. In a perfect world you'd like the wedge to get too tight to drive right before it hits the bottom of the kerf, the wood above the eye would be compressed to the point that it bulges slightly and if you were to pull the handle you would see a slight crease in the wood from where it was crushed against the eye. BUT, if you can manage some approximation of this, you're going to be fine. I don't think there is much compressing the wedge though as long as it is made from pretty hard wood. I typically cut my wedges so the grain runs perpendicular to the head to resist crushing and promote the "bulge". Couple things I have come across is that my wedges usually make the same sound as a nail being driven and if the wedge seems too hard to drive at the beginning, don't force it, just pull it while you can and thin it out a little. I have driven wedges only a little way, decided they were too tight, and couldn't remove the frickin thing to save my life. Also, a wooden mallet is, in my opinion, one of few tools for hanging an axe that is worth having or almost vital. You want it somewhat light weight for quick sharp blows, but about as big or bigger in diameter as your wedge. That means, 3 inch or so diameter. A dead blow would probably be a good alternative.

Also, yeah swell lock, BLO, pure linseed, whatever you want to do. I apply BLO until the handle won't take anymore, OR until I get bored with the process. I use my axes right away - I don't think it makes any difference - then maybe that night I'll slather some more on it and do that for a couple nights. Wood quality seems to be relatively hit or miss these days. You'll get wood that seems to never stop soaking it up, you'll get wood that will hardly accept a light coating. I typically put the most on the end grain, particularly at the head - a puddle of it until boredom/saturation. I think BLO "dries" after, I dunno, a few days, a week, (and it doesn't really soak into wood THAT great) so I do TRY to get as much into the wood as I can within the first few days otherwise you may end up with a tacky feel which then has to be cleaned up with some turp or something. I've done this many times. My thought process is, anything that is healthy for the wood, that you can get the eye/tongue to absorb = good. That will keep it tight AND help prevent moisture from finding its way in.