Need help! First hang

[1215]

Is it really that important that the kerf wedge go the full length of the eye or be longer so that it is an exact fit? I have a slight case of OCD with my tools so I have a feeling that I'll get 5-10 handles under my belt and need this one to be perfect or I'd just tear it out and rehandle it. I'll swing by the hardware store and if they don't have something I like I'll give HH a call.

For the record: This is a Link handle with a wedge that is too fat and too short. I recently ordered a 36" House Handle for a 5lb Collins. When I held the HH 36" wedge up to this Plumb Boy Scout Hatchet with Link Handle it was both the perfect profile I'm going for and plenty long. When I held the 36" HH wedge up to the eye of the 5# Collins and a few others (Plumb, Craftsman, 3# Collins) it was longer than all of the eyes. It was only barely longer than the 5# Collins eye, which is huge compared to the others.

 

[Hacked]

Is it really that important that the kerf wedge go the full length of the eye or be longer so that it is an exact fit?

Only if you enjoy sleeping at night.

 

[Square_peg]

EDIT: Is this the same as Swel-Lock just a different brand or should I not mess around and just order/get/use the Behlen Swel-Lock brand?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1390206

No, that's Ethyl-2-Cyanoacrylate according to their MSDS - so it's like Crazy Glue. Swel-Lock is DPG - dipropylene glycol - NOT PROPYLENE GLYCOL!

 

[1215]

Thank you! I bought a ~2oz bottle of Swel-Lock on eBay but as I said, this thing is burning a hole in my pocket... I want to use it! I'll hold my horses until Monday when the Swel-Lock's expected delivery is... :-/

 

[Square_peg]

You can buy bottles of generic DPG in ebay for a fraction of the cost of branded Swel-Lock. It's a harmless liquid often used as a base in perfumes and other cosmetics.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Is it really that important that the kerf wedge go the full length of the eye or be longer so that it is an exact fit? I have a slight case of OCD with my tools so I have a feeling that I'll get 5-10 handles under my belt and need this one to be perfect or I'd just tear it out and rehandle it. I'll swing by the hardware store and if they don't have something I like I'll give HH a call.

For the record: This is a Link handle with a wedge that is too fat and too short. I recently ordered a 36" House Handle for a 5lb Collins. When I held the HH 36" wedge up to this Plumb Boy Scout Hatchet with Link Handle it was both the perfect profile I'm going for and plenty long. When I held the 36" HH wedge up to the eye of the 5# Collins and a few others (Plumb, Craftsman, 3# Collins) it was longer than all of the eyes. It was only barely longer than the 5# Collins eye, which is huge compared to the others.

No it's not that important because the wedge really only applies pressure left and right (so to speak), and less front to back. However, I DID rip most of my own early handles out, so you might as well plan on your early work not being good enough if that's the sort of person you are and obviously, I can relate. But there's nothing wrong with that. It's good practice and the process of pulling your own handles will tell you a lot about how well you hung them.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

There could possibly be an issue with a short wedge when sticking. When you pull there is quite a bit of force, so it could cause weakening of the wood which overlays with the wedge, or it could cause the wedge to loosen as the handle wiggles back and forth slightly. You want to fill as many gaps as possible as every gap means an area not contributing to a tight head, and the kerf tends to prevent full contact at the center of the eye's length.

Not so important if you're using a metal pin, but you need a better fit if going wood wedge alone. Definitely use a metal pin for your first hang.

 

[1215]

Definitely use a metal pin for your first hang.

Why? (curious) I was planning on using a wood wedge only. Perhaps I need to call up HH and order a pile of wood and metal wedges. I thought it was pretty clear that the consensus on the forum, as well as in An Axe to Grind, NOT to use a metal pin/wedge? When I bought this Link Handle I initially didn't care very much if I needed to tear it out or ruined it/the hang however now that I've put so much work into it (thinning, shaping, sanding, etc.) I don't want to lose the handle.

What are mistakes people make during their first hang that would require a metal wedge (I assume this is what you mean by a pin)?

Thanks.

 

[Hacked]

Why? (curious) I was planning on using a wood wedge only. Perhaps I need to call up HH and order a pile of wood and metal wedges. I thought it was pretty clear that the consensus on the forum, as well as in An Axe to Grind, NOT to use a metal pin/wedge? When I bought this Link Handle I initially didn't care very much if I needed to tear it out or ruined it/the hang however now that I've put so much work into it (thinning, shaping, sanding, etc.) I don't want to lose the handle.

What are mistakes people make during their first hang that would require a metal wedge (I assume this is what you mean by a pin)?

Thanks.

It isn't needed even on your first hang. I've never used a metal wedge including the first axe I rehafted. I have however pulled a number of metal wedges out and can attest that it is a royal PITA.

Fourth from the left in this picture. The two with metal wedges in the picture are factory hangs. And one of them I just went through the PITA of removing the two wedges since the factory haft failed. Honestly I would just wedge the thing and start using it.

 

[1215]

I have a feeling that my next order from HH is going to be much more expensive than my previous ones. I wish they sold an assortment or 1/2 pound increments because I'll probably be buying a pound each of small/medium/large wedges at this rate... in addition to ten-ish handles.

It isn't needed even on your first hang. I've never used a metal wedge including the first axe I rehafted. I have however pulled a number of metal wedges out and can attest that it is a royal PITA.

Fourth from the left in this picture. The two with metal wedges in the picture are factory hangs. And one of them I just went through the PITA of removing the two wedges since the factory haft failed. Honestly I would just wedge the thing and start using it.

Seeing photos like that makes me thing that either I'm not as crazy as I think I am... or that others are as crazy as me

I got really lucky, the boy's axe I pictured in my on/off topic help/id thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ic-Help-amp-Identification-(lots-of-pictures) had two metal wedges way down in there surrounded by three nails (only one is pictured, the other two I had already pulled). I got lucky because I was able to pull the nails and then start using the axe for a few chops/splits and the head quickly came loose. With the persuasion of a wooden mallet and a dead blow hammer, the head slid right off the haft making it much easier to pull those pita metal wedges. I'm not sure I'll ever want to use a metal wedge after that experience but I wasn't sure as the forum seems divided on the subject. If HH sells metal wedges by the pound they can't be that bad can they?

I now have about 40 (yes forty) various heads (hatchets, axes, mauls, sledges and about 20 hammer heads) that need handles. Do the purists think there are any appropriate places to use metal wedges or wooden only?

No it's not that important because the wedge really only applies pressure left and right (so to speak), and less front to back. However, I DID rip most of my own early handles out, so you might as well plan on your early work not being good enough if that's the sort of person you are and obviously, I can relate. But there's nothing wrong with that. It's good practice and the process of pulling your own handles will tell you a lot about how well you hung them.

It is an interesting process to pull handles. I've now pulled ten or so and often find myself shaking my head muttering wtf under my breath. Even more interesting is I didn't hang any of them, most of them were broken factory handles or things other family members had done. Part of me wishes I had waited a little while to pull them because to be honest I'm just tearing the wood out without really knowing what to look for so I'm not sure it is as much of a learning process as it could be. And seeing that someone in my family shoved a haft into the eye of that boy's axe that was way too small, had no kerf wedge, and then just shoved as many metal wedges and nails as possible into the top of the eye was about as funny as it was wtf...

To add to the lack of learning process, with the exception of the boy's axe haft, all of the handles I've pulled have been 50+ years old, broken and not reusable in any way, and extremely cracked and dried out so the wood just falls apart.

 

[Square_peg]

Do the purists think there are any appropriate places to use metal wedges or wooden only?

Add metal wedges whenever necessary to tighten up a hang. Easier than rehanging and you don't waste a handle. Most the time it's not necessary. If you've left your haft and wedge 1/4" long and it starts coming loose just drive the wedge in deeper with a piece of flat 1/4" bar stock (old leaf spring scrap?). The extended haft will expand over the top of the wedge locking it in. Then you're good forever most of the time.

 

[cityofthesouth]

Do the purists think there are any appropriate places to use metal wedges or wooden only?



It is an interesting process to pull handles. I've now pulled ten or so and often find myself shaking my head muttering wtf under my breath. Even more interesting is I didn't hang any of them, most of them were broken factory handles or things other family members had done. Part of me wishes I had waited a little while to pull them because to be honest I'm just tearing the wood out without really knowing what to look for so I'm not sure it is as much of a learning process as it could be. And seeing that someone in my family shoved a haft into the eye of that boy's axe that was way too small, had no kerf wedge, and then just shoved as many metal wedges and nails as possible into the top of the eye was about as funny as it was wtf...

To add to the lack of learning process, with the exception of the boy's axe haft, all of the handles I've pulled have been 50+ years old, broken and not reusable in any way, and extremely cracked and dried out so the wood just falls apart.

Pulling handles is almost always a wtf moment. Ha! Old deteriorated handles is just part of the process, but pulling good handles that you wish to save, that's when I really start hating on anything other than wood. Everyone uses them today I think, more or less, and we know they are nothing new either. There have been a wide variety of patented wedging concepts throughout the years. They aren't the end of the world and they probably do something to keep things tight. So if they provide you with some extra sense of security then to me, there's nothing wrong with that.

So I guess that really begs the question, why not use them then? In a factory setting metal wedges just make me think of lawyers. But functionally, I don't think they improve a good hang, which then makes it a question of value added vs risk. Metal wedges split the handle so to me the perceived benefits don't outweigh the risk. If the hang is already tight, then you're forcing another object in and something has to give. As Square_peg pointed out, axe handles get loose, and you have to ask yourself, do I want to spend an hour fixing this or just get back to work? I put a ton of work into handles, but so did old timers who had to make them, so I guess I look at the handle as something of an investment to making my axe functional. Risk is important. But you can get a functional hang done in no time and if the axe just needs to be put into service, risk is less important as the handle can be replaced relatively easily and quickly.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

I said to use the metal pin (call it that just to differentiate from the actual metal wedges) just because you specified that you didn't want to waste the handle, and with it being a first hang it is more likely that the hang won't be perfect. You need a really good hang to ensure the wooden wedge alone won't come loose. And it's not really that big of a deal to take the pins out, you simply drill around the pin through the wedge and pull the pin out. Many say they have a hard time keeping wood wedges tight, and I've received a few from experienced people where the wedges popped right out.

I definitely prefer the wood wedge only. Square_peg told us an old-timers trick to help secure it. If you drive the wedge in to just below the top of the kerf the pressure should help hold the wedge in. Once driven almost tight you can cut the wedge/handle and then drive the wedge the rest of the way in using a block of wood the width of the wedge. Only needs to be an eight of an inch or so, not a lot. Linseed oil will help expand the handle and wedge, and will even harden to help keep the wedge in place. Mine has not loosened at all.

 

[1215]

I want to thank Square_Peg for letting me know that Swel-Lock=dipropylene glycol (DPG). I purchased a bottle of brand-name Swel-Lock on eBay and it arrived with the bottle top not sealed properly and about 3/4 of it had spilled all over the inside of the box... I then started Googling "dipropylene glycol" and learned that there is a cosmetic grade and an industrial grade --and most beauty supply stores carry DPG in sizes ranging from small (a few ounces) containers all the way up to a gallon for about $40-$50. Since I'm not licensed as a barber I can't buy from a beauty supply store --and my barber looked at me like I was absolutely insane when I asked him to pick me up a bottle of DPG... but I got some and it was very inexpensive. You can also order DPG online.

I also bought several wedges. I'm a little OCD when it comes to this stuff. I'd rather do it properly or not do it at all. I look forward to your feedback on my first hang because I went to great lengths to "do it properly" as best I could. I had measured that the kerf slot was about 35-36mm deep and I was told that it is "best practice" to make sure your wedge fills the whole kerf slot... So I bought a bunch of wedges so I could figure this out. For anyone's first hang I'd strongly suggest something similar because until you actually do it, you have no idea what it will be like or should feel like, etc.

So I took the kerf wedge I had that was too short and I thinned it out a bunch and cut it into thirds (evenly into three pieces). I then took four other wedges that were long enough and cut them so they just hung over the edge of the eye about 1/8" each side, and then thinned them so one matched the "test wedge", two were thinner and one was slightly thicker. I put some BLO on the outside of the haft eye, hammered the haft into the head for its final fit, put some Swel-Lock in the kerf slot and all over the wedge, and I drove the smallest piece into the kerf slot... It went in about 1/3 of the way (a little less than 1cm) and it got VERY tight, and then broke off. Clearly it was too thick. This is exactly why I had cut the wedge into thirds... I have a set of dentist picks and was able to use them to pull out the wedge by working it side to side in the kerf slot until it popped out. I thinned out another short section (too much) and it drove straight down to the bottom of the kerf slot without breaking off. I then split the difference in those two wedge thicknesses and angles and matched that to one of the proper length wedges. I have to say the wedge was much thinner than I was expecting it to be.

I could only get the wedge in about 32-33mm and the kerf slot is about 35-36mm deep but about 1cm was hanging out of the top of the wedge. I went out back and used the hatchet for a few chops (the bit profile is WAY too wide/fat) and then I dumped the whole hatchet into a tray of BLO. A few hours later I came back to it and used the wooden mallet on the wedge once more and it went down another slight little bit to almost exactly what I had measured to be 35mm. A day later I used a coping saw to cut the kerf wedge flush with the top of the head. It was a little messy (pulpy) because it had been soaking in Swel-Lock and then BLO but it cut down nicely. The haft does not hang out of the eye all that much (about 1/16-1/8") but I can already see that it is slightly bulging out over the edges of the eye. I've had it soaking in BLO for a few days and I think its ready to take out, let it dry off and use it. I'll keep coating it with BLO from time to time and keep the head/eye in a tray of BLO.

So that's that... Please be as brutally honest as you want to be. Let me know the good/bad/ugly. BLO is still oozing out of it, everywhere. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. The haft won't take much more but the eye still keeps taking it. I thinned the mid section from the shoulder down to just about 4" up from the knob but kept the base the stock thickness. We'll see how that works out.

Thanks!

 

[Square_peg]

... It went in about 1/3 of the way (a little less than 1cm) and it got VERY tight, and then broke off. Clearly it was too thick. This is exactly why I had cut the wedge into thirds... I have a set of dentist picks and was able to use them to pull out the wedge by working it side to side in the kerf slot until it popped out.

Good idea with the dentist pick. I actually forged a small pick for pulling out wedge pieces.

 

[Square_peg]

Looks like your kerf was a little tight to begin with. I aim to cut the kerf about 2/3 the way down the eye and then have the wedge stop about halfway down the eye so it never bottoms out.

If you have a tight kerf there are several option for dealing with it. One is thin the haft a bit more and make room for the wedge the expand the haft. The other is to widen the kerf. A good way to widen a kerf is to put 2 blades on a hacksaw and re-cut the kerf with that. It works!

 

[cityofthesouth]

I feel like you're never going to want to do this again. But, it looks like you're going to do just fine with it. Well done.

 

[1215]

Good idea with the dentist pick. I actually forged a small pick for pulling out wedge pieces.

OT commentary:
Heh... I use them to clean carburetors and such all the time but after this exercise I would strongly recommend against dental picks made for humans/people. Maybe Elephants or Hippos would work Funny thing about trying to get/replace a good set of dentist picks, I broke two of my picks trying to get those stupid kerf wedges out. Should have used something similar to yours --modified flat-stock or something stronger. My better half is a registered nurse so when we went to the local medical supply store (which also sells DPG by the truckload for pennies) we were informed that someone in (if I remember correctly) Colorado sued a medical supply store because they bought dental picks and used them on themselves, got an infection or hurt themselves, and then sued the medical supply store --so now you need to be an MD/dentist to buy the things... which means if you are reading this you should raise your reserves on eBay for dental picks because you can't buy them new unless you have $300k++ of student loan debt.

Our 25# rescue (mutt) is working on growing opposable thumbs so she can help stack wood and post on the internet so I can continue on with getting the house sorted and ready for winter. We did the DNA test for her and her breed came back as 100% jerk (she steals the sheets) so we assume it was a match made in heaven.

Looks like your kerf was a little tight to begin with. I aim to cut the kerf about 2/3 the way down the eye and then have the wedge stop about halfway down the eye so it never bottoms out.

I'm nervous because it was very thin. I thought going into it (remember first hang) that a bigger kerf slot meant more opportunity for play, mostly I thought a wide slot meant that the kerf wedge would have more room to shrink or compress and therefore make the head loose. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought smaller=better and that the wedge would expand with the shrink lock.
I used a coping saw to cut the kerf slot evenly down 2/3 of the way --if I could do it again I'd do exactly as you said, either double up a hacksaw or coping saw blade. I'm not sure that I would ever be a fan of making the outside of the eye smaller because I feel that would risk splitting the haft.
Is that a rule of thumb to try to get the wedge halfway down the eye? I'm nervous my wedge was too thin and the eye will come loose. I suppose that won't be terrible if I can widen up the kerf slot and rehang when it does come loose.

I feel like you're never going to want to do this again. But, it looks like you're going to do just fine with it. Well done.

Thanks!! I'm trying.
I live a bipolar/multiple personality life. I pay the bills as a keyboard warrior working Asia hours from UTC-5. At the same time I just bought a house that is heated 3/4 with wood and since August I've cut down a bunch of (big) trees which I will need come January/February. My goal is: I'll be really pissed off if I or my kids ever have to redo these hafts. At the same I would be delighted to teach my grandkids how to rehang anything. I'll screw up anything the first 1-2 times so I'm just trying to learn and do it properly, understanding that shoving a stick of wood into a hunk of metal is only the beginning.

 

[Hacked]

I think the wedge looks fine, a thin wedge IMO points to a well fit handle. The only issue I can point out is the small gap on the bottom front of the eye. I would say with some confidence that this shouldn't cause problems though. Good job, but take it easy on the next one, don't over think it.

 

[1215]

Didn't know where else to put this. I've hung a Boy Scout hatchet and now having used it a bit I know places where I wish I had thinned more or less but I've never hung an axe.

Where can I go for ideas/patterns to shape handles/hafts? I have a 5# Collins axe that I'll try to match since it will be a restoration but I've bought/acquired several heads without handles. HH come big/thick. What do I do? Thanks.