Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Enough with the paper wheels. Let's not hijack a perfectly good thread on using stones.
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Need help from the sharpening pros...
- Thread starter AaronJAnderson
- Start date
I have some rougher diamond stones I use if something is damaged but that rarely happens.
Refinement is where I am at. I should probably just order the Edgepro and shut up about it.
I'd love a set of diamond stones from DMT, but damn they're expensive!
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000226/2000226.aspx
If at this point all you want to do is refine further, then I would suggest just getting the DMT EEF or a 6000-8000 grit water-stone. Norton makes stones that I like, but Naniwa also has their "super stones" which are very good.
Once you get to that point though, you're going to want to start looking at strops and compounds to get finer--seriously it will happen. There's some good links in knifenut's signature relation to that. Myself personally, I would invest a little bit into strops and compounds rather than by another stone if I were you. You might find that with the strops and the compounds that your edge is just as refined as you like it with your current stone, and since you're probably going to want the stropping equipment later anyway it might save you the cost of an additional stone.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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I agree with KennyB. Go for strops now and see what they can do for you. Anything else is more of the same, even if "better" it's still grinding, whether manually or guided. For some kinds of edges, waterstones are good but strops are a big boost for everyday use, sort of like a Sharpmaker: won't do everything, but perfect for what it does do.
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Hi dsmegst,
I was pricing an entry level kit which would only get me started. My idea of a full set was based on the Naniwa 220, 400, 800, 1000, 2K, 3K, 5K, 8K, 10K, 12K individual stones which I have only priced once so far. It is possible there are less expensive stores, but my total in US dollars before tax or shipping was going to be $606.65.
That did not include a handy adjustable foot plate, flatening stones, or abrasive grit for the flattening stones. Would that be necessary, I would guess not, but I would probably end up buying them anyway.
Doug
Well, that's not exactly what I was imagining. My grit steps are much more spaced out then yours. The difference between say 1K, 2K, 3K isn't really that much as far as I know. So I go from 1K to 4K. I never looked into going past 8K since that's where a strop would come in. If I tried all those grits, I know I would screw up somewhere and have to start over.
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Sorry, just trying to be funny. My apologies to the OP and the rest for going off track.
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Ok, now I'm curious... did I miss something in this thread? If he's already stropping on leather with CrO, and his complaint is basically that it's sharp but has lost its bite, why is more stropping now being recommended?
cbw
If I tried all those grits, I know I would screw up somewhere and have to start over.
Yeah, Norton makes a combination set with two combo stones and a flattener for somewhere around $150. The stones are 220/1K and 4K/8K. I don't think that Norton actually makes natural water-stones though, I'm pretty sure they're synthetics. Either way, the 220/1K is all I use as far as bench stones go, and it does a pretty good job. I've only really been curious to try the 4K/8K, and their stones are a little bit expensive so I've just been finishing edges up with chromium oxide after their 1K and they're plenty sharp for me. Shaving sharp at least.
cbwx34,
Because he mentioned wanting to get another stone for refinement, but he could probably get way much cheaper with some diamond paste or some of the various other 9-1 micron compounds before stropping on leather and chromium oxide.
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I have the Norton 220/1k and 4k/8k stones and love them. I find that they do the job quickly and leave a good edge that cleans up with only a few strokes on the strop. I just recently picked up a cheap three set of diamond bench hones (16.78 after taxes) to fix ugly nicks and to bring down the edges on the knives I make after heat treating. I know they are no DMT stones but for the price and abuse they will get its good enough for me
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@pwet
When you say "shave" do you mean, shave like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksn0tjpH5_8&feature=related
almost.shaving your face with a 1k edge is painfull. even stropped. but at 0,8-2k (the stone used for the actual sharpening before polishing, two different actions) you should already be able to remove full patches of arms hair smoothly with one pass. if you see what i mean. if you don't and you move to 4k you are trying to improve an edge that's flawed at the start and theres no way you end with a good edge.
4k edge sould bite your skin at the slightest movement of your finger on the edge, if it doesn't you have either rounded it or never got it. also you should constantly check your edge, after each abrasive : the 800 stone, the leather, the 4k, the leather etc.
You don't need a 'full set' of water stones. Having one is nice but the only difference in going from a 400 to an 800 while skipping the 600 is the amount of time you'll need to spend on the 800 in order to remove the scratch marks from the previous grit. After all, that's all that's happening with each stone; removing the scratch pattern caused by the stone before it. Jumping a grit only causes you to spend an extra minute or two more.
If I were buying new stones, I'd get a 400, 800, 2,000, 4,000 and be done. Larger grit than 400 eats up a stone quickly. For that I'd use wet/dry sandpaper as I'd only be using it once in a while. Finer than 4,000 grit I'd switch to stropping with compounds.
Stitchawl
shaving your face with a 1k edge is painfull. even stropped. but at 0,8-2k (the stone used for the actual sharpening before polishing, two different actions) you should already be able to remove full patches of arms hair smoothly with one pass. if you see what i mean. if you don't and you move to 4k you are trying to improve an edge that's flawed at the start and theres no way you end with a good edge.
4k edge sould bite your skin at the slightest movement of your finger on the edge, if it doesn't you have either rounded it or never got it. also you should constantly check your edge, after each abrasive : the 800 stone, the leather, the 4k, the leather etc.
I don't know, I think it's probably got a lot to do with subjectivity, but my edges stropped on CrO after my 1K Norton shave my face without pain. They don't feel like a straight-razor would, but they actually feel a little better than the store-bought disosable ones--probably because there's not blades on my face.
Anyway, my point is that when I run my finger down those edges that shave just fine, they don't bite at my finger like they would if I just left it at 1000, but at the same time if I just leave them at 1000 they won't shave as well. What's up with that?
I think I'm just as confused as the OP now.
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I don't know, I think it's probably got a lot to do with subjectivity, but my edges stropped on CrO after my 1K Norton shave my face without pain. They don't feel like a straight-razor would, but they actually feel a little better than the store-bought disosable ones--probably because there's not blades on my face.
Anyway, my point is that when I run my finger down those edges that shave just fine, they don't bite at my finger like they would if I just left it at 1000, but at the same time if I just leave them at 1000 they won't shave as well. What's up with that?
I think I'm just as confused as the OP now.
pain while shaving is clearly subjective. i hate shaving and a perfectly honed straight already hurts me. that's why i don't shave at all. i actually never tried to shave my face with anything coarser than 10k so i can't tell.
as far as feeling an edge this is subjective too. for exemple the famous 3 finger test from murray carter works with some people not other, i got cut slighly each time i tried. i too try to feel the sharpness with my finger but i don't deliberately try to slice 3 fingertips to see if my knife cuts right ...
you have to find a sharpness test that works for you i think.
I agree. We all have different ways of testing our edge. Some of us like to rub the edge along a thumbnail, others push-cut telephone book paper, others whittle hair, shave arm hair, slice toilet paper, and still others will rub the edge with their finger, or slice arms off slaves. I have a feeling that each of these work well for the person who likes them, and doesn't work at all for those who don't!
Edge geometry plays as big a part in how well a knife cuts. A khukri with a large 60 inclusive bevel will not cut cheese nearly as well as a straight razor, which won't cut nearly as well as the guitar's B string with no edge at all! But that razor, no matter how sharp, won't cut the head off a bull the way the Khukri will, and certainly not sound as good as the B string regardless of who plays it. Geometry plays as much a role in how well a knife will cut as does the abrasive sizes used to sharpen it.
In another thread last month we were discussing trying to find some sort of objective test that we could use to compare sharpness, but we fell short of the task. Find a test that YOU like, and use it to compare YOUR edges. That's probably the only way you can be sure of your sharpening.
Stitchawl
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I have never tried cutting cheese with either my kukhuri or a guitar B string but I think the high E would work better
I have never tried cutting cheese with either my kukhuri or a guitar B string but I think the high E would work better
Only if it's a heavy gauge... say .013 or so. With trial and error I found a .015 B worked best for the cutter I made. But then, it was for large wheels. Perhaps for smaller wedges even a light E would work!
Cuts cheese much better than a knife! No drag on the side of a blade.
The cutter I made had a string about 12" long attached to a metal frame, like a paper cutter. I used a high E at first, but it had too much give to it. (Kept going flat.
.)Stitchawl
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Then my high E would have never worked, I was playing on .008s
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Neither do I. :thumbup:
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Last edited:
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Thanks. Doesn't seem to solve his initial issue, but maybe he did and I just didn't catch it. Could be better switching to a diamond compound over the CrO.
cbw