Need help with forging press build.

Machining the rollers and welding up the rest is where is gets complicated. Building a press involved cutting and welding and running the lines. That seems a LITTLE less involved.
PoorestBoy said:
Yes, we are similar in our limitations is seems. I also thought about building the rolling mill. They seem simple but buying all the bearings, sprockets, chain, and electric motor, not to mention the steel, would get pricey i think. I had an idea about using some old trailer hubs that i had from a scrap pile, and either weld them to schedule 80 pipe (i think thats right), or maybe bolting break drums to them and use that for the rollers. However i would still need the motor, sprockets/chain, and the steel frame and other components. Maybe one day i'll try to build one. Maybe i'll even buy new parts instead of using scrap. I dunno. THe press seems more do-able right now.
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I hope I'm not hijacking this thread. Recent circumstances (my lawyer effing up the release of the full lien funds on my house from 6 years ago means I won't be buying a press) have me planning a press build right now. I will have some funds in the next 10 days and will be shopping shortly thereafter.

For the experienced press users, what would you recommend in the build once, cry once scenario? The Bateson press is 24 tons, 8" stroke. I can get a 34 ton 5" cylinder with a 24" stroke for about 350-400. Is that length needed, if I get into feather patterns and such? http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-in-bore-x-24-in-stroke-log-splitter-cylinder/A-p8401135e

Is an H frame or C frame recommended? I was thinking of using 4140 for the dies. Is there a better option?
 
As the owner of a C frame, I would recommend an H frame with a die plate and holder system that doesn't require a lot of tight tolerances. With either type, you can align and weld the dies to the plates on the press. Weld the top die up on the bench and then install it. Position and tack weld the bottom die and then finish it up on the bench. Ladder dies are easy because they happen to fit together in the inner you require.
Willie71 said:
I hope I'm not hijacking this thread. Recent circumstances (my lawyer effing up the release of the full lien funds on my house from 6 years ago means I won't be buying a press) have me planning a press build right now. I will have some funds in the next 10 days and will be shopping shortly thereafter.

For the experienced press users, what would you recommend in the build once, cry once scenario? The Bateson press is 24 tons, 8" stroke. I can get a 34 ton 5" cylinder with a 24" stroke for about 350-400. Is that length needed, if I get into feather patterns and such? http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-in-bore-x-24-in-stroke-log-splitter-cylinder/A-p8401135e

Is an H frame or C frame recommended? I was thinking of using 4140 for the dies. Is there a better option?
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jdm61 said:
As the owner of a C frame, I would recommend an H frame with a die plate and holder system that doesn't require a lot of tight tolerances. With either type, you can align and weld the dies to the plates on the press. Weld the top die up on the bench and then install it. Position and tack weld the bottom die and then finish it up on the bench. Ladder dies are easy because they happen to fit together in the inner you require.
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Thanks, I was leaning to an H frame, but wanted to hear from users. It just seems more structurally sound.

If anyone has pictures of their presses, I would love to see what people like, and what they would change.
 
jdm61 said:
Machining the rollers and welding up the rest is where is gets complicated. Building a press involved cutting and welding and running the lines. That seems a LITTLE less involved.
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I thought about just using thick wall pipe for rollers. Maybe that wont work, im not sure. I know people have made ring rollers out of pipe and it works for that purpose, but maybe a rolling mill is another matter.
 
Willie71 said:
I hope I'm not hijacking this thread. Recent circumstances (my lawyer effing up the release of the full lien funds on my house from 6 years ago means I won't be buying a press) have me planning a press build right now. I will have some funds in the next 10 days and will be shopping shortly thereafter.

For the experienced press users, what would you recommend in the build once, cry once scenario? The Bateson press is 24 tons, 8" stroke. I can get a 34 ton 5" cylinder with a 24" stroke for about 350-400. Is that length needed, if I get into feather patterns and such? http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/5-in-bore-x-24-in-stroke-log-splitter-cylinder/A-p8401135e

Is an H frame or C frame recommended? I was thinking of using 4140 for the dies. Is there a better option?
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Not at all friend. Please feel free to ask any questions you want. Maybe i'll learn something from the answers you get.
 
poor boy since you are in Akron the first piece of advice I will give you is to shelf the air press idea and use some of that $300 to buy a membership with SOFA. They are a large blacksmithing organization full of great people that are very helpful and they have a massive shop with forges, anvils, power hammers and of course a press. They put on blacksmithing and bladesmithing events that draw people in from all over the country and even further. And you can go there outside events every Wednesday and forge to your hearts content while learning with other new smiths under guidance from there very helpful staff, one of which is a JS in the ABS, all for the cost of your membership.

I can absolutely understand the desire to have some kind of press, I have that same desire. But there is no need to rush into it and I can assure you, having been through this process, whatever you think a bottle jack press is going to cost you it will likely be a lot more. And honestly until you can afford a real press I would just buy bar stock of quality steel and save the leaf springs for building fixtures, work holders, welding tables, etc. You can never have enough scrap steel for projects. $100 will buy you lots of 1075, 1084 or 5160 all of which you can forge, grind and heat treat with what you have!

Good luck and if you buy a membership let me know. There will be an ABS hammer-in in August and the Quadstate Blacksmithing conference in September. I'll be at both and would be happy to say hi and offer you any help I can provide.

-Clint
 
Augus7us said:
poor boy since you are in Akron the first piece of advice I will give you is to shelf the air press idea and use some of that $300 to buy a membership with SOFA. They are a large blacksmithing organization full of great people that are very helpful and they have a massive shop with forges, anvils, power hammers and of course a press. They put on blacksmithing and bladesmithing events that draw people in from all over the country and even further. And you can go there outside events every Wednesday and forge to your hearts content while learning with other new smiths under guidance from there very helpful staff, one of which is a JS in the ABS, all for the cost of your membership.

I can absolutely understand the desire to have some kind of press, I have that same desire. But there is no need to rush into it and I can assure you, having been through this process, whatever you think a bottle jack press is going to cost you it will likely be a lot more. And honestly until you can afford a real press I would just buy bar stock of quality steel and save the leaf springs for building fixtures, work holders, welding tables, etc. You can never have enough scrap steel for projects. $100 will buy you lots of 1075, 1084 or 5160 all of which you can forge, grind and heat treat with what you have!

Good luck and if you buy a membership let me know. There will be an ABS hammer-in in August and the Quadstate Blacksmithing conference in September. I'll be at both and would be happy to say hi and offer you any help I can provide.

-Clint
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Thank you for the friendly invitation Clint. I wont be able to join however, i regret to say. I agree that i can do a lot of forging without a press. Its not like its a necessity. I will do without if thats the way it works out, and i have already considered it. I only joined this forum in order to ask questions about this power unit i have. I plan on calling the manufacturer and getting more info on it, but its no big deal if it wont work out. I am happy that i joined this forum though, and maybe i can ask more questions about forging if the need arises. I only use the spring steel because its what i have at this time. I do plan on purchasing a quantity of mild steel though.
 
I haven't been by the SOFA shop since like 2008, but you guys sure had some nice air hammers back them, one German and one Turkish, IIRC. Lots of other cool stuff too. I am sure you have even more now. Sweet setup. :thumbup:
Augus7us said:
poor boy since you are in Akron the first piece of advice I will give you is to shelf the air press idea and use some of that $300 to buy a membership with SOFA. They are a large blacksmithing organization full of great people that are very helpful and they have a massive shop with forges, anvils, power hammers and of course a press. They put on blacksmithing and bladesmithing events that draw people in from all over the country and even further. And you can go there outside events every Wednesday and forge to your hearts content while learning with other new smiths under guidance from there very helpful staff, one of which is a JS in the ABS, all for the cost of your membership.

I can absolutely understand the desire to have some kind of press, I have that same desire. But there is no need to rush into it and I can assure you, having been through this process, whatever you think a bottle jack press is going to cost you it will likely be a lot more. And honestly until you can afford a real press I would just buy bar stock of quality steel and save the leaf springs for building fixtures, work holders, welding tables, etc. You can never have enough scrap steel for projects. $100 will buy you lots of 1075, 1084 or 5160 all of which you can forge, grind and heat treat with what you have!

Good luck and if you buy a membership let me know. There will be an ABS hammer-in in August and the Quadstate Blacksmithing conference in September. I'll be at both and would be happy to say hi and offer you any help I can provide.

-Clint
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An air assist hydraulic jack forging press would cost me about $71, the cost of a cheap HF jack. I could get a 20 ton, air assist, hydraulic jackt on on sale for 89 bucks and take 20% off of that as well. I have the steel to build a frame already. I might need to buy 20 bucks worth of welding rod though. IF it doesn't work out i could reuse the steel for something else and maybe the jack would still come in handy for something else. I really would like to find a cheap cylinder though, maybe a rebuilt one as another poster suggested, and see how it performs on this power unit i have. Maybe it is under powered and will not work, but maybe it would be just as good as an air assisted hydraulic jack, or even a bit better. I dont know, but it wont hurt to buy the cylinder because i can still use that as well, wnen i find another pump and motor, or power unit. Thank for all the input. Its been helpful.
 
I finally contacted the distributor of this power unit but they couldn't give me much info. They did give me the manufacturers name and the part number for this unit, which is different than the distributor had. I'll need to contact the manufacturer now. ITs not looking good though, the gentlemen i spoke with said that this pump is most likely 2 GPM or even much less. That doesnt sound good.

I do however have another pump, without a motor. It came off of a forklift, so im told. Im sure this pump is big enough for a forging press, but i will also need a motor, a control valve which i may be able to get easily, and hoses. Maybe this is the direction i will go now. We'll see.
 
I will just say that if you could make a working press for $71/$89 and some scrap steel there would be hundreds of tutorials on how to them on the internet. The fact that no knifemaker or blacksmith that I or most of the people here know has one is another proof of how poor the idea is.

Ask yourself, "Why would thousands of people who are knowledgeable on smiting as well as building equipment spend a coupe thousand dollars if it would work for 1/10 that?"




Fill out your profile so we know a bit about you and stick around. There is a lot of good info and advice here. Knowing your age, occupation, interests, and location could get you some great help in a build or offer to come use a near by makers equipment. I would also really consider making a visit to a SOFA meeting or event. If nothing else, you will meet a lot of potential networking people.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I will just say that if you could make a working press for $71/$89 and some scrap steel there would be hundreds of tutorials on how to them on the internet. The fact that no knifemaker or blacksmith that I or most of the people here know has one is another proof of how poor the idea is.

Ask yourself, "Why would thousands of people who are knowledgeable on smiting as well as building equipment spend a coupe thousand dollars if it would work for 1/10 that?"




Fill out your profile so we know a bit about you and stick around. There is a lot of good info and advice here. Knowing your age, occupation, interests, and location could get you some great help in a build or offer to come use a near by makers equipment. I would also really consider making a visit to a SOFA meeting or event. If nothing else, you will meet a lot of potential networking people.
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Of course, i agree. Im not trying to contradict anyone. I agree that building a press modeled after what professional smiths use, is the right way. Im only trying to suggest that i might be able to build a low budget hobby press. A hobby press would not be ideal for a professional blade smith, but for some guy in his back yard, like myself, it might be ok. Im only trying to find a way to conserve fuel by limiting the number of heats required to reduce large stock. However i am also taking your advice seriously, and thats why im still trying to build a more functional press. IN my last post i mentioned the forklift hydraulic pump that i have. I can get a control valve for it pretty easy, and maybe even some used hoses, but i still need a reservoir, cylinder, and motor.
 
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You know, the best bet for you might be to keep your eye out for a deal on an old hydraulic log splitter. It's basically the same thing as a forging press, you'll just have to modify the "die" area, and then forge on the horizontal. Lots of guys have done it.
Used they go for like $800 around here if in decent shape, BUT- I scored one that worked fine and just needed a tiny bit of TLC at the local junkyard, for $300. It would have made a fine press, but I sent it to my folks to split wood with.
Do you have a local junkyard? You should go there anyway.
 
Salem Straub said:
You know, the best bet for you might be to keep your eye out for a deal on an old hydraulic log splitter. It's basically the same thing as a forging press, you'll just have to modify the "die" area, and then forge on the horizontal. Lots of guys have done it.
Used they go for like $800 around here if in decent shape, BUT- I scored one that worked fine and just needed a tiny bit of TLC at the local junkyard, for $300. It would have made a fine press, but I sent it to my folks to split wood with.
Do you have a local junkyard? You should go there anyway.
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Thats a good option. I have considered it and i have read online forum posts by others who say they have used log splitters. It would just take too long on my limited budget to save 800 dollars though. $300 would be hard enough. Im thinking of finding a used reservoir, or perhaps making my own or maybe some kind of makeshift mod of some kind. I need to find a cylinder and motor. I have one guy who wants me to do some work for him, and he says he might have a cylinder i can have, but if that doesnt work maybe ebay, craigslist, or a hydraulic shop might have a cheap used cylinder i can afford. As far as a motor goes, maybe i'll either get a HF 3 HP electric motor, or maybe the 6 HP gas engine, THat one goes on sale for $99, and i might be able to take 20% off and get it for 80 bucks. I dont yet. We will see what happens. (:
 
Augus7us said:
poor boy since you are in Akron the first piece of advice I will give you is to shelf the air press idea and use some of that $300 to buy a membership with SOFA.-Clint
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To add my 2 cents, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the above advice. Now, I'm in the PNW and know nobody in SOFA, but have been a member of my local association (NWBA) for a number of years. Not only have I gained priceless knowledge and friends, but MANY tools (and tools to make tools) from other members I've met over the years. Tools that I not only wouldn't have had any idea on where to start looking for them, but even some tools I didn't even know I needed. Many have swap meets like the one I'm prepping for in 2 weeks where I'm hoping to find parts for my press or rolling mill.
And, if you're as lucky as I am, you'll find that you live within 5 miles of 4 fellow smiths with full shops (with an already functioning press) that will swap shop time for a hand (or a beer or two).
 
weo said:
To add my 2 cents, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the above advice. Now, I'm in the PNW and know nobody in SOFA, but have been a member of my local association (NWBA) for a number of years. Not only have I gained priceless knowledge and friends, but MANY tools (and tools to make tools) from other members I've met over the years. Tools that I not only wouldn't have had any idea on where to start looking for them, but even some tools I didn't even know I needed. Many have swap meets like the one I'm prepping for in 2 weeks where I'm hoping to find parts for my press or rolling mill.
And, if you're as lucky as I am, you'll find that you live within 5 miles of 4 fellow smiths with full shops (with an already functioning press) that will swap shop time for a hand (or a beer or two).
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Thank you. Your 2 cents is welcome. I agree as well. I regret to say though, that its not an option for me. IM a crash course, DIY, loner type of guy. I have very limited contact with most people. That's why im glad to have internet and youtube. THis thread has been a huge help. THe book which Stacy recommended, that alone was helpful. I found valuable info just in the books description. IT mentioned a 3HP motor, at 1700 RPM, with a 5 GMP pump, if memory is correct, and it mentioned the cylinder size. It also said that you could increase the press speed by using a faster and more powerful motor. IT mentioned a 5HP at 3500 RPM
 
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