Need Input Criticism For New Knife Design From New WannaBe Knife Maker

M

madupree

Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
171
Hello all and i have just recently joined the forum and figured i would go ahead and say a little bit also. I recently got hooked on an interest in making knives and since then have done tons of research covering all aspects of a knife (blade steels, handle materials, sheath materials, sizes, knife making techniques). After i researched all i decided to utilize my CAD program to design a knife and i made revision after revision and now i need some much needed criticism. I even went to the length of printing them out and taping the patterns to a piece of 3/16" Hard Board and cut them out with a coping saw over the holidays. The only real difference in the designs are the handles, the blade pretty much stayed the same. So give some input both negative and positive are appreciated. Attached are the 5 designs i have come up with so far........

Design1_zps3b69bf65.jpg
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I was just looking until I saw #5, then I smiled. That's big and curved enough to match what I find comfortable.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I was just looking until I saw #5, then I smiled. That's big and curved enough to match what I find comfortable.
Click to expand...

Blade #5 is the only one that actually extends beyond the palm of your hand, all the others stay withing the hand grasp (if that's said correctly)
 
Thinner slices better. Steel is tough, it does not need to be massively thick, especially in these smaller knives. 4/32" is 1/8" and is just fine for most applications. For some, like filet knives, 3/32 is even better.
 
a lot of steel i have found comes in 5/32" and i didn't want to get any thicker than that unless i'm gonna make a meat cleaver or something along those lines....
 
I am not an experienced knife maker by any means. But I am an experienced knife drawer. I draw and design every night while I get my shop and tools in line. With that being said, and the full confidence that much more experienced makers will chime in, I will offer my humble opinion.

I like the general design and proportions of your designs. I prefer a more narrow blade but I like broad ones too. I like the handle shape on the last one best due to the drop at the pommel end.

Now for the constructive criticism which is both aesthetic and functional in nature. While I like the skeletonized tang, unless you have a mill it will be quite hard to accomplish. Many makers drill lots of holes and or taper the tang to reduce weight and affect the balance. I am assuming that you plan to use handle scales. I do not like the finger grooves in the handle. They look a little large for normal fingers and limit the ways in which one can hold the knife comfortably. I also do not like the divot in the spine. It does not add any value to the looks of the knife nor the function. Further it makes for a unnecessarily thin section right where bolsters would normally be added for strength. Lastly I like a gentle curve along the spine. It just looks better, in my opinion. (This was the first piece of advise I was given on this forum.) The top of your blade and the top of the handle are in line, except for the divot in the middle. I would get rid of the divot and then slightly radius the spine and top of the tang. Not much, just a little rounding of the straight line of the profile.

This last little bit will probably be controversial but I have been forming this opinion for a while now. Unless you are planning on making knives on CNC machines, I think there is value in drawing designs out the old fashioned way, on paper with a pencil. It will be those same hands holding the pencil and eraser that will be holding the piece of steel while grinding. I have been better able to understand how lines and curves work together by drawing them. This has translated well to when I have put steel to belt. Once again just my opinion. Lots of very experienced makers design using CAD. It is just what I have come to realize over the course of my knife making education thus far.

By nature, criticisms often take up more space and time then compliments. Please do not let the opinions of this very inexperienced maker dissuade you in any way nor should you take away a negative contention from my remarks. The overall design seems pretty solid and I have seen knives attempting to be sold on the forum that would have been better off being any one of your designs shown. Good luck and happy designing.
 
Perrin said:
I am not an experienced knife maker by any means. But I am an experienced knife drawer. I draw and design every night while I get my shop and tools in line. With that being said, and the full confidence that much more experienced makers will chime in, I will offer my humble opinion.

I like the general design and proportions of your designs. I prefer a more narrow blade but I like broad ones too. I like the handle shape on the last one best due to the drop at the pommel end.

Now for the constructive criticism which is both aesthetic and functional in nature. While I like the skeletonized tang, unless you have a mill it will be quite hard to accomplish. Many makers drill lots of holes and or taper the tang to reduce weight and affect the balance. I am assuming that you plan to use handle scales. I do not like the finger grooves in the handle. They look a little large for normal fingers and limit the ways in which one can hold the knife comfortably. I also do not like the divot in the spine. It does not add any value to the looks of the knife nor the function. Further it makes for a unnecessarily thin section right where bolsters would normally be added for strength. Lastly I like a gentle curve along the spine. It just looks better, in my opinion. (This was the first piece of advise I was given on this forum.) The top of your blade and the top of the handle are in line, except for the divot in the middle. I would get rid of the divot and then slightly radius the spine and top of the tang. Not much, just a little rounding of the straight line of the profile.

This last little bit will probably be controversial but I have been forming this opinion for a while now. Unless you are planning on making knives on CNC machines, I think there is value in drawing designs out the old fashioned way, on paper with a pencil. It will be those same hands holding the pencil and eraser that will be holding the piece of steel while grinding. I have been better able to understand how lines and curves work together by drawing them. This has translated well to when I have put steel to belt. Once again just my opinion. Lots of very experienced makers design using CAD. It is just what I have come to realize over the course of my knife making education thus far.

By nature, criticisms often take up more space and time then compliments. Please do not let the opinions of this very inexperienced maker dissuade you in any way nor should you take away a negative contention from my remarks. The overall design seems pretty solid and I have seen knives attempting to be sold on the forum that would have been better off being any one of your designs shown. Good luck and happy designing.
Click to expand...

Now that was the type of criticism i was looking for!!!

Thanks for the great input......in response......

I have got a lot of input from several people about the divot on the top and have thought about losing that feature altogether (redesigning now) as far as the finger grooves in the handle, i carry a SOG Vulcan with finger grooves in it and i love it so i basically based my design off that with slight modifications (my grooves aren't quite defined as my Vulcan, allowing for a little more flexibility) i based all of the divot's in the knife off certain size radius' so i might go back to the drawing board on that to allow for more flexibility. Also as far as the cutout's in the handle, i want the blade to have a near perfect balance and being that i am a perfectionist, i have found a local company that is going to cut my designs out with a laser to get rid of the human error factor and allow for more precise repeat-ability so that tang cutout design might vary slightly once i determine the amount of material that will need to be removed once i select handle materials and put the flat grind on the knife. All in all, i am more confident with my CAD program (15+yrs experience) versus pencil and paper. I have also designed the pieces for the jig i'm going to make to hold the knife while grinding as well as the DIY 2"x72" grinder (which i have a copy of the plans for that was extremely hard to track down if anyone would want a copy, VERY DETAILED) i'm going to make. All in all, it's probably going to be a good year before i actually hold a finished knife in my hand. Thank you again for your valued input as everything i gain is added value in producing something that will be a hopeful great end product!!!!!!
 
madupree said:
Now that was the type of criticism i was looking for!!!

Thanks for the great input......in response......

I have got a lot of input from several people about the divot on the top and have thought about losing that feature altogether (redesigning now) as far as the finger grooves in the handle, i carry a SOG Vulcan with finger grooves in it and i love it so i basically based my design off that with slight modifications (my grooves aren't quite defined as my Vulcan, allowing for a little more flexibility) i based all of the divot's in the knife off certain size radius' so i might go back to the drawing board on that to allow for more flexibility. Also as far as the cutout's in the handle, i want the blade to have a near perfect balance and being that i am a perfectionist, i have found a local company that is going to cut my designs out with a laser to get rid of the human error factor and allow for more precise repeat-ability so that tang cutout design might vary slightly once i determine the amount of material that will need to be removed once i select handle materials and put the flat grind on the knife. All in all, i am more confident with my CAD program (15+yrs experience) versus pencil and paper. I have also designed the pieces for the jig i'm going to make to hold the knife while grinding as well as the DIY 2"x72" grinder (which i have a copy of the plans for that was extremely hard to track down if anyone would want a copy, VERY DETAILED) i'm going to make. All in all, it's probably going to be a good year before i actually hold a finished knife in my hand. Thank you again for your valued input as everything i gain is added value in producing something that will be a hopeful great end product!!!!!!
Click to expand...

ALSO...... as far as the 'gentle curve along the spine' remark, i would definitely like to get more input in that area, i never really thought of that but it could be a possibility. Maybe base it off a 72" radius wouldn't be bad...........INPUT INPUT INPUT!!!!
 
I think you'll get more aesthetically pleasing curves using splines instead of arcs. Many "good" designs have a continuous, smooth curve on the spine from the tip to the but, with the exception of knives with thumb ramps and divots, although many of those too have a smooth curve to the spine if you remove the ramp or divot. Have you tried handling your hardwood patterns to feel for any hot spots? Additionally, I definitely think you should design with both the blade and handle in mind.
 
madupree said:
Blade #5 is the only one that actually extends beyond the palm of your hand, all the others stay withing the hand grasp (if that's said correctly)
Click to expand...

Your hand, I assume, since you don't know the size of someone else's hand. You started " your hand."
 
PT Doc said:
Your hand, I assume, since you don't know the size of someone else's hand. You started " your hand."
Click to expand...

Thank you, yes MY hand, i'm 6'4 with a rather large hand so it might feel different to someone who's 5'8 i suppose.......
 
NeilJBorja said:
I think you'll get more aesthetically pleasing curves using splines instead of arcs. Many "good" designs have a continuous, smooth curve on the spine from the tip to the but, with the exception of knives with thumb ramps and divots, although many of those too have a smooth curve to the spine if you remove the ramp or divot. Have you tried handling your hardwood patterns to feel for any hot spots? Additionally, I definitely think you should design with both the blade and handle in mind.
Click to expand...

i will put in a few hours for that concept tonight with a slight large radius over the entire spine of the knife and see how that does, yes i have handled all designs and by far i like the last design the best because it extends past the palm of MY hand whereas the others feel like they're digging into my palm more and i was worried for someone that might need to use the knife for an extended period of time, it might become uncomfortable.....
 
You are welcome. I have learned so much here and continue to learn every time I come back. It is nice to have a "new" guy that has done his homework and has a plan. Sounds like the laser cutting and the jig will address several of my thoughts as to construction concerns. A good friend of mine is a CAD draftsman in the aerospace/defense industry and he shares your feelings as to designing with CAD. My remarks are limited to my experience and I'm sure that many have their own good valid opinions. As to the arc of the spine, once pointed out to me, is very obvious now whenever I look at a knife or design. Look at lots of knives and even better templates designed by Mr. Loveless among others, and notice how much curvature they use. I agree that a constant radius probably isn't the best but a combination of increasing and decreasing large radii are better looking. Straight lines and constant radii are not organic and tend to make objects look odd or unnatural to our eye. Your finger grooves my be sized correctly for a gentleman of your stature. I'm a mere 5'10" mortal. :D
 
Talking about the arc of the spine, just so that I'm clearly understanding, you're suggesting that the blade be set on one arc and the handle portion be set on a separate arc? Basically the entire length of the knife from tip to but would have 2 separate arcs in the design? Basic concept of how I was taught in elementary to draw birds......in a nutshell?
 
Personally I would give the whole top line a bit of curve. I would skip the thumb divot, if you want, trade it for a ramp. I think if should be a little I front of the first finger groove too. Put you fist out like a knive is in it, your thumb is in front of your pointer.
I would use the bottom one, give it a slight curve, and give it a bit more butt at the end of the handle. I don't like handles to get smaller at the back, unless you want to stifle to hang on to them. Think of a hammer or axe handle. I like a colts foot! Just how I see it from here.
 
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