Need Machete / Sword Suggestions

[Daniel Koster]

Sorry guys...IMHO, a sirupati or kobra is too light to be a heavy chopper but has too much length for its weight to be a nice saber. The Kobra does well, but can't rival the Tarwar or Katana.

That said, any HI khukuri will outperform a machette.

I too have some user-machettes from Guatemala (I actually used them there, too ) and the cower in the corner when I unsheath any of my khukuris...

 

[W.T. Beck]

I have been wondering about the quality and usefulness of the Junglee Short Sword. It has an Aus8 15 inch blade. It looks like it ought to be good for self-defense, but I don't know about utility. Has anyone had experience with it?

 

[Singularity]

Hibuke:

I second that! A HI Sirupati, in the 20+" range, makes *THE BEST* all-round tool, be it machete, hatchet, axe or prybar, *PERIOD*, and I'd challenge anyone to prove otherwise...

Mmmmm, the question is to which other gear did you compare it? I personally find the forward curve on khukuri quite a problem. There are lots of other blades that are excellent contenders, from thick machetes, to other khukuris, through goloks and parangs and short swords.

So actually, let's take the problem in reverse, I challenge you to prove your affirmations, possibly with factual data and real-life comparison with the dozen of contenders...

Impossible, right?

So may be, no one can tell which blade is *THE BEST* all-round tool.

But it still possible that a 20"(+) HI Sirupati is *THE BEST* all round tool for you.

Definitively not for me.

*PERIOD*

 

[W.T. Beck]

I will mention this again to make sure it gets noticed: Does anybody have experience with the JUNGLEE SHORT SWORD? I am interested in one to keep under the bed as a home defense weapon, but I would also like to know if it is good for utility uses, for example, as a machete substitute.

 

[Hibuke]

Originally posted by Singularity
Hibuke:

Mmmmm, the question is to which other gear did you compare it? I personally find the forward curve on khukuri quite a problem. There are lots of other blades that are excellent contenders, from thick machetes, to other khukuris, through goloks and parangs and short swords.

Yeah, I heard that crap before, but they all pale in comparison. A Sirupati is more moderately curved, and is quite agreeable...

Originally posted by Singularity


So actually, let's take the problem in reverse, I challenge you to prove your affirmations, possibly with factual data and real-life comparison with the dozen of contenders...

Impossible, right?

Not impossible, but certainly not with a dozen. Cliff Stamp has done numerous comparisons with HI Khuks and other very tough knives. Check his website...

Originally posted by Singularity

So may be, no one can tell which blade is *THE BEST* all-round tool.

But it still possible that a 20"(+) HI Sirupati is *THE BEST* all round tool for you.

Definitively not for me.

*PERIOD* [/B]

Whatever, I leave you to your delusions...

 

[Pinoy Knife]

Well Boy's and Girl's Here I Go Again The People Who Proclaim that the Kukri is Superior are I Strongly Feel Mistaken !! Mind You The Kukri is a Great Smash it Weapon I Feel the Weapon Lack's in Cutting Beacuse of Blade Thickness and Grind!! I Understand that Most People who Use a Kukri Love Them !! But Ask a Honest Question How Many People Have Used a Kukri and a Bolo Side By Side ?? I Think The Bolo is a Far Superior Weapon / Tool !! Let Me Explain !! While I Was on a Very Remote Island of The Phillipine's I Personally Used a Bolo Daily to Cut Firewood /Remove The Husk From Coconut's / Make Bamboo Wall's / Remove Only the Skin of Bamboo For Sewing/ Decapitate Many Chicken / Chop Meat/ Cut meat into Cooking Sizes!! Also a Wicked Weapon If Needed to Defend Yourself!! These Real Bolo's are Very Light Weight and Move Very Fast Once You Get The Hang of it !! Check it Out on my Web - Site at http://www.pinoyknife.com Picture # 82 Also Note The Bolo is only Ground on One Side !!

 

[Cliff Stamp]

W.T. Beck :

[Junglee Short Sword]

Has anyone had experience with it?

No, however the overall blade and handle shape look decent.

Singularity :

I challenge you to prove your affirmations, possibly with factual data and real-life comparison with the dozen of contenders... Impossible, right?

This is essentially the properties of sharpened wedge. We are significantly beyond this in terms of limit of tool using capability and have been for quite some time. Define the criteria and the weights and then evaluate them. It isn't even a difficult task let alone an impossible one. Of course different people will have different weights and even possibly different criteria depending on the enviroment and user characteristics. You could still assign an overall best tool for particular enviroments and skill and physical abilities. You could also compile the user base possibly weighting them according to skill and experience and generate an overall best blade.

For example a high quality Japanese kitchen knife would be the best choice for a skilled user who wants a high cutting ability and edge retention and is willing to rinse and dry the blade as required and be careful to avoid hard edge contacts. A stainless western production would be the best choice for someone who doesn't want to have to keep the blades clean and dry, and wants them to be more resilent to damage. A cheap Ginsu knife is best for those who really lay a beating on kitchen knives cutting on ceramic cutting boards etc. .

Pinoy :

The Kukri is a Great Smash it Weapon I Feel the Weapon Lack's in Cutting Beacuse of Blade Thickness and Grind!!

There are a lot of different types of khukuris, some of them are quite thick and heavy, some of them are not. Tom Holt's posts would be informative reading on the use of khukuris for lighter brush work, as would lots of others in the HI forum.

-Cliff

 

[W.T. Beck]

Hello Cliff,

Thanks for the Junglee Short Sword advice. I am thinking about buying one because I don't really have anything else like it, unless one counts machetes, and those don't have pointed tips.

 

[Singularity]

Cliff:

course different people will have different weights and even possibly different criteria depending on the enviroment and user characteristics. You could still assign an overall best tool for particular enviroments and skill and physical abilities. You could also compile the user base possibly weighting them according to skill and experience and generate an overall best blade.

Right! different people, different expectation, different results, I only have a few more doubts about coming with one unique final solution, there are many good options, with pro and cons. My original comment was targeted at a remark that has more to do with cult and religion, than with experience, in my own opinion.

And I explain: In general ,telling people "this is the best all-round tool *period*" is totally useless if not backed up by facts, or at least explanations. On one side it is pure hype and cult, on the other valuable information.

Now sure the HI khuks are solid contenders, well build, resistant, sometimes massive, reasonably priced. That does not mean they are the only answer.

Anyway, when looking for a machete, I doubt there is anything filling the requirements better than a machete, the caracteristics of a machete being light, springy, and first of all, very cheap.

BTW, Cliff, I finally got this old machete (16" blade), I told you some time ago, and after reprofiling the edge, will be comparing it to the other stuff, my initial feeling is that it is more or less equivalent to a loka golok. Still, it is good to get my hands on it, as I forgot the feeling, and must admit I do not find it useless at all. A shame I did not have it for the "banana tree" test.


Hibuke:
There is this nice thing called "ignore list", you belong to mine, now, as I do not like your style at all.

 

[spence]

Pinoy:

I'm with you, sort of. I've used khuks and goloks (different weight distribution than a bolo - I admit - but similar idea) side by side.

I've found the golok to be better for most clearing that I've done from vines up through small trees. You can use it for other small knife tasks more easily than the curved khuk, too.

But, for heavier chopping (larger limbs and medium trees), I prefer the khuk. Not because the golok couldn't cope - it could - but the khuk was a more efficient heavier-duty chopper.

That old "right tool" thing.

S.

 

[W.T. Beck]

There is one very good reason to buy an HI khukuri, whether or not it is the best for brush clearing, etc. They are simply beautiful knives, and I cannot imagine anything more collectible. I expect most people who buy HI khukuris are glad they did, whether or not they actually use them.

I think if I actually needed to clear brush, I would get a machete, so as not to scratch up any of my khukuris. They are works of art.

Also, the prices of the HI khukuris is very reasonable. Imagine how the value would skyrocket, if for some reason the factory in Nepal closes down.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Singularity :

My original comment was targeted at a remark that has more to do with cult and religion, than with experience, in my own opinion.

The HI user base is easily the most fact based on the net. Yes the forum has a very high community feel, and a lot besides knives get dicussed there, but when it comes down to experience using their knives, they can easily claim marks to top status in that field and have been doing so for quite some time. And by this I am not just talking about extreme use, though there is a fair bit of that, just normal brush and utility work is very common. The promotion of the HI khukuris is because of the work done by them, not because of the common hype about a particular blade steel, heat treating process, or the "Navy Seals" who use their knives. Most people using HI khukuris and dicussing them on the forum are just regular guys who like being in the outdoors and do so frequently.

If you want to talk about needing clearification when generalizing, then consider that you have frequently made sweeping statements about khukuris implying that all khukuris have these features. Khukuris covers a very broad range of blade styles. Yes an Ang Khola does not work relatively well on light cutting, however there are khukuris which are designed for this type of use just as the amount of blade curvature can vary significantly. If you want to get a machete/golok type of khukuri then you would ask Bill for a light Sirupati or Kobra and be specific about the edge geometry. I would also suggest researching Tom Holts posts on the subject and dropping him an email as he has compared this type of khukuri to many other brush clearing blades.

Anyway, when looking for a machete, I doubt there is anything filling the requirements better than a machete

If you are looking for something to do what traditional machetes are used for (going after performance and not a particular blade style), traditional flat stamped machetes are always the worst choice as they have the worst possible grind. The only positive feature they have is that they are cheap. If you can afford something better you can get it. Upgrade to a distal taper or better yet a primary grind and you will have a much better cutting performance not to meantion durablity, ease of sharpening, edge retention, handle security and ergonomics etc. . Machetes are useful tools, and are very informative as low end baselines, everyone should have experience with them to know what you can expect and basically to allow you to really appreciate the higher end blades. If you just gave someone with no experience a Valiant Golok and then gave him a stamped machete, his opinion of the Golok would go up significantly after they had used the machete.

-Cliff

 

[Singularity]

Cliff:

Oh fine, I thought about answering, but I think I'll just shut up now, this way the discussion stops there, and that suits me.

 

[cutsforth]

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to jump in and let you guys know I have a ton of Martindale "Crocodile" machetes in stock in longer lengths up to 28".
Over 25 different patterns in stock.These blades are the real thing, proven over time all over the world.
All come with a nice file too.

Chat soon,
Daren Cutsforth
www.cutsforthknives.com

 

[cutsforth]

Oh,
I forgot to mention that all Martindale machetes have a Distal Taper that make Crocodile machetes distinctly better than other brands.

Thanks,

Daren


Cutsforth Knives
www.cutsforthknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Just a brief comment on Darens note on the distal taper. I have been using several of the Martindale machetes and they are a definate class above that from Ontario and the like. The distal adds an additional level of functionality and diversity to the blade. They are worth checking out to experience this aspect.

-Cliff

 

[Eric_Draven]

Some comments:

Of the standard style machete for very light vegatation and grass the Martindale are excellent. I need to pick up some larger ones. Although distal taper is nice on these knives, as it allows a finer edge near the tip, and thus higher performance, it is no subsititute for a primary grind. In fact, because distal taper moves the balance point back towrds the grip, it is exactly the opposite of what you want for chopping, though for its intended purpose (light vegatation) it is not a limitation.

I need to pick up some longer models, as I am very interested in their performance on grasses and such, and for general trail and briar patch cleanup.

I can highly recommend Daren Cutsforth of www.cutsforthknives.com the service he gives is great.


Re: HI Khuks

They are very tough. You are talking over half an inch of spring steel, virtually indestructible toughness. Bill Martino is also an excellent person to deal with, and has the BEST warranty policy you could ask for.

That being said, I have worked with a number of HI Khuks of different styles, most recently the BSA, King Kobra, and a 25" siruapti (though this was a couple years ago). The balance was not right for my style of use, and the cutting performance was not very high at all.

As much as I like Bill Martino, I would not buy another HI Khuk, they are just not suited for my uses of a blade. I will soon buy a Cold Steel Khuk and have it rehandled in micarta, that should be interesting.

The Valaint Goloks are on another level of performance in comparison to standard machete class blades when the wood starts to get thicker.

The convex profile is ideal for wood work, and they can accomplish a wide range of tasks.

Here is an article I wrote comparing the Ontario, Tramontina and Valiant knives, you may find it helpful.
http://outdoors.free.fr/s_article.php?id_article=64


I would stay clear of Tramontina machetes (but actually like their kitchen knives for industrial use funny enough.) All the Tram agricutural blades I have used have been terrible. They are cheap though.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Eric_Draven :

because distal taper moves the balance point back towrds the grip, it is exactly the opposite of what you want for chopping

If you simply put a distal taper on the same stock and profile you would end up with a drastically neutral-shifted blade, but that would be poor application of that technique, not an inherent problem. The balance point is determined by more than just the taper and thus you adjust other aspects of the design to keep the balance point where you want it.

-Cliff

 

[Eric_Draven]

Cliff,

While Martindale did design mass in to the end of the blade on the Jungle knife, they did not do that on a number of other models.

I view a machete as a very task specific tool, it is only optimized for grass and light vegetation. It is not a good tool at all when the wood gets thick or hard.

The machete suffers from several disadvantages: it is usually made of very soft metal and thus has a low level of durability; it has no primary grind and is made of thin stock and thus is prone to binding.

It is intersting to me that Scandanavian knives (mora) use a similiar grind (a single edge bevel and no primary grind), yet these knives are capable of very high levels of performance, and are near ideal tool for wilderness wood working.

 

[frank k]

Originally posted by Eric_Draven
I view a machete as a very task specific tool, it is only optimized for grass and light vegetation. It is not a good tool at all when the wood gets thick or hard.

I agree. Although that specific task covers a lot of ground. Anything that can be cut in one swing is fair game for a machete. For some of the heavier machetes this includes every thing up to decent sized green saplings. When the target is too thick or hard to be cut in one swing – the machete is no longer the best tool for the job.

For serious hard wood cutting, the machete is a poor substitute for a good saw or axe.
I think it is a mistake to try to maximize the machete’s wood chopping ability by shifting the balance too far forward. A machete will never make a first rate chopper. And a lot foward blade weight won't make it one. An extreme blade heavy balance will make it a chore to swing – detracting from performance on the light vegetation it was designed to cut. It makes more sense to me to team a machete up with something like a pruning saw if the need for any substantial wood cutting is anticipated.



-Frank