Need opinion on my design?

[Rusev]

Hi all,

I have been working on these shapes for i while and need opinion, how it is persieved? What do you think on ergonomics, blade geometry and overall style? I have been looking at this for a while and need more eyes...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Since you asked:
1) It is too curvy.
2) The handle will slip out of your hand, as i has no butt.
3) I.m not sure what the sharpened clip is for?
4) Rear pin too far back.
5) Ricasso too small ( plunge too close to the handle). This accentuates the straight plunge vs the curved handle front.

The workmanship looks great, it is the mixed style and the other things that make it look odd.

A minor thing is that the mosaic rivet is not "clocked". It is turned just a tad off the 12:00 alignment. This will catch the eye of any seasoned knifemaker or collector.

 

[Rusev]

Thank you for taking the time to comment!
1) It is too curvy. - i like curvy can't do facets and streight lines very well
2) The handle will slip out of your hand, as i has no butt.- i agree! I like big butts! This i will change
3) I.m not sure what the sharpened clip is for? - what i think - to look cool, maybe save weight. It is not sharp. I aslo make it without a clip and i like it better. It's a design choice
4) Rear pin too far back. - didn't see that. I will think on that and maybe change.

Agree for the pin - no excuse there!

 

[Brock Cutlery]

It looks pretty nice in general. I don't mind curvy, as long as it does not interfere with function.
Changes I would make:
1. Is there a reason for the point being high? You didn't say what it is for. Looks like a skinner. I might consider dropping the point a bit.
It is pretty much all belly, with a recurve back.
2. I would move the blade relative to the handle down a bit. You have a nice thumb stop up top, and none below. I might make them equal.
3. As Stacy said, move the plunge out a bit from the handle. Even though your handle front has a curve, there is a mean angle to it. Match that on the plunge.
4. Angle or slope the front of the handle down to the blade. It does not have to be much. I am not a fan of square handle fronts.

But if you like it, just keep making it. If it sells or fulfills your need then you are good.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I am not against curves, but too many gets distracting ( and inefficient).
Imaging a shapely woman's silhouette. The two outer bulges and the thinner waist make for a very pleasing and accepted form. If you add extra to the top, or to the bottom, the effect is different, but still will be pleasing to most folks. Even if you add extra to both top and bottom, some folks will see that as pleasing ( just watch a telenovela).
Now, add an extra bulge in the waist area ( two waists) or add a third breast, and see how off-putting the change is. Even fairly small extra additions don't work well.

A knife should flow. The flow is usually along slightly curved lines. The curve is what makes it look "comfortable" to the eye. However, when there are too many curves, or too many ins and outs, it starts to fall apart visually. At the same time, the extra stuff rarely works in the hand, either.

When designing a knife start with a midline down the drawing sheet (1/4" segment graph paper is best).
Mark the OAL (tip and butt) on the line. Mark the handle/blade junction on the line. Draw the knife full size on the midline.
Usually you want the point near the midline, and the butt center a bit below the line. I like the butt top at the midline.
I draw a low arc with the tip on the line to the butt top on the line. The arc rises about 1/4" above the handle/blade junction. The arc doesn't have to be a circle segment, just a continuous curve.
I draw a second downward arc to establish the width of the blade. The arc appogee is the desired blade thickness, and usually 2/3 the distance from the tip. Like the tp curve, the arc can change curvature as long as the curve continues.
All other features are drawn with reference to these curves.
I add straighter lines in places where the blade or handle will need straighter lines.
I rough in the basic blade edge shape and any change the point position as needed ( drop point, raised point, tanto, etc.)
After establishing the basic edge shape add a basic reverse curve to form a handle bottom with a thinner waist. You probably will add a palm swell to that, but the reference inward curve will tell you if the palm bulge is too much. You will quickly see tat finger grooves don't work well along that curve. A single front finger groove that smoothly fairs back into the palm swell is what I shoot for.
The butt gets shaped as needed, usually in some amount of Bird's Head.
Final details like pin/rivet hole position, pluge lines, choils, harpoon tips and clips, etc. ar added after all the silhouette lines are finished.
Before long the whole blade is sketched and final adjustments made to have a good "FLOW".

It is sort of like drawing a nude figure from circles, triangles, and squares. Once all the areas are placed, the details can be easily drawn in.

 

[Lapedog]

I am not against curves, but too many gets distracting ( and inefficient).
Imaging a shapely woman's silhouette. The two outer bulges and the thinner waist make for a very pleasing and accepted form. If you add extra to the top, or to the bottom, the effect is different, but still will be pleasing to most folks. Even if you add extra to both top and bottom, some folks will see that as pleasing ( just watch a telenovela).
Now, add an extra bulge in the waist area ( two waists) or add a third breast, and see how off-putting the change is. Even fairly small extra additions don't work well.

A knife should flow. The flow is usually along slightly curved lines. The curve is what makes it look "comfortable" to the eye. However, when there are too many curves, or too many ins and outs, it starts to fall apart visually. At the same time, the extra stuff rarely works in the hand, either.

When designing a knife start with a midline down the drawing sheet (1/4" segment graph paper is best).
Mark the OAL (tip and butt) on the line. Mark the handle/blade junction on the line. Draw the knife full size on the midline.
Usually you want the point near the midline, and the butt center a bit below the line. I like the butt top at the midline.
I draw a low arc with the tip on the line to the butt top on the line. The arc rises about 1/4" above the handle/blade junction. The arc doesn't have to be a circle segment, just a continuous curve.
I draw a second downward arc to establish the width of the blade. The arc appogee is the desired blade thickness, and usually 2/3 the distance from the tip. Like the tp curve, the arc can change curvature as long as the curve continues.
All other features are drawn with reference to these curves.
I add straighter lines in places where the blade or handle will need straighter lines.
I rough in the basic blade edge shape and any change the point position as needed ( drop point, raised point, tanto, etc.)
After establishing the basic edge shape add a basic reverse curve to form a handle bottom with a thinner waist. You probably will add a palm swell to that, but the reference inward curve will tell you if the palm bulge is too much. You will quickly see tat finger grooves don't work well along that curve. A single front finger groove that smoothly fairs back into the palm swell is what I shoot for.
The butt gets shaped as needed, usually in some amount of Bird's Head.
Final details like pin/rivet hole position, pluge lines, choils, harpoon tips and clips, etc. ar added after all the silhouette lines are finished.
Before long the whole blade is sketched and final adjustments made to have a good "FLOW".

It is sort of like drawing a nude figure from circles, triangles, and squares. Once all the areas are placed, the details can be easily drawn in.

I know MercWorx does a handle style they call “Chili handled” as in a chili pepper. Although not really in line with my preferred grip style apparently it is supposed to be quite comfortable.

Just thought it was interesting how it has some awkward curves in the handle.

 

[One Armed]

Once again, knives are SO subjective that no answer will be completely right, or completely wrong. Even in Stacey's points! Some merit to a couple points, but his criticism of the Swedge or clip point, which he is referring to as a "sharpened clip", is a 100% personal opinion! As is the curve, and the ricasso being too small. "IMHO", I t is not a style of knife I find attractive. And I think fancy wood scales are among the most ugly things one can do to a knife! However, those are MY OPINIONS, which are completely different from others. Besides the very small things wrong, I think you're overall execution is very, very good! Will they sell for $1000 each? Not likely. CBut you will absolutely be able to sell them for a price! And actually, I think that ANYONE who asks $1000 for a hand made knife is smoking crack! THAT is a person suffering from an EXTREME case of narcissism!

 

[SV-97]

I'm no knifemaker but merely a design guy but here are my thoughts:
- can't see anything wrong with finish
- "Front" of grip(in the direction of the plunge) there's a 90° edge on the scales. Makes it look really unfinished imo.
- Front and Back pins might be a bit close to the edge, I'd be afraid that it might crack
- I think one thing that makes it look a bit off overall is the wide handle. Maybe it'd flow better with a less pronunced swell. The blade looks good to me though it's not something I'd use

I don't find the plunge position to be too close to the handle.
Do you have a sketch of the design? Maybe I find some time in the next few days to visualize what I mean from a sketch

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Hi all,

I have been working on these shapes for i while and need opinion, how it is persieved? What do you think on ergonomics, blade geometry and overall style? I have been looking at this for a while and need more eyes...

Reminds me of a Banana Skinner type pattern.. I dont have a problem with the curve in the blade. I would drop the tip to the level of the first handle pin. It gives an index point when the knife is held to the side with your thumb on level with the pin. —————————-the ends of the handle are way to sharp.. lower those and bring the Ricassio back..Since there is no guard, what I do is make a index finger round with my 3/4” small wheel.. Keep going, your doing well!

 

[AVigil]

I am not against curves, but too many gets distracting ( and inefficient).
Imaging a shapely woman's silhouette. The two outer bulges and the thinner waist make for a very pleasing and accepted form. If you add extra to the top, or to the bottom, the effect is different, but still will be pleasing to most folks. Even if you add extra to both top and bottom, some folks will see that as pleasing ( just watch a telenovela).
Now, add an extra bulge in the waist area ( two waists) or add a third breast, and see how off-putting the change is. Even fairly small extra additions don't work well.

A knife should flow. The flow is usually along slightly curved lines. The curve is what makes it look "comfortable" to the eye. However, when there are too many curves, or too many ins and outs, it starts to fall apart visually. At the same time, the extra stuff rarely works in the hand, either.

When designing a knife start with a midline down the drawing sheet (1/4" segment graph paper is best).
Mark the OAL (tip and butt) on the line. Mark the handle/blade junction on the line. Draw the knife full size on the midline.
Usually you want the point near the midline, and the butt center a bit below the line. I like the butt top at the midline.
I draw a low arc with the tip on the line to the butt top on the line. The arc rises about 1/4" above the handle/blade junction. The arc doesn't have to be a circle segment, just a continuous curve.
I draw a second downward arc to establish the width of the blade. The arc appogee is the desired blade thickness, and usually 2/3 the distance from the tip. Like the tp curve, the arc can change curvature as long as the curve continues.
All other features are drawn with reference to these curves.
I add straighter lines in places where the blade or handle will need straighter lines.
I rough in the basic blade edge shape and any change the point position as needed ( drop point, raised point, tanto, etc.)
After establishing the basic edge shape add a basic reverse curve to form a handle bottom with a thinner waist. You probably will add a palm swell to that, but the reference inward curve will tell you if the palm bulge is too much. You will quickly see tat finger grooves don't work well along that curve. A single front finger groove that smoothly fairs back into the palm swell is what I shoot for.
The butt gets shaped as needed, usually in some amount of Bird's Head.
Final details like pin/rivet hole position, pluge lines, choils, harpoon tips and clips, etc. ar added after all the silhouette lines are finished.
Before long the whole blade is sketched and final adjustments made to have a good "FLOW".

It is sort of like drawing a nude figure from circles, triangles, and squares. Once all the areas are placed, the details can be easily drawn in.

A picture is worth a thousand words, you should post a series of the knives you make so all can see how it has been applied

 

[Rusev]

It looks pretty nice in general. I don't mind curvy, as long as it does not interfere with function.
Changes I would make:
1. Is there a reason for the point being high? You didn't say what it is for. Looks like a skinner. I might consider dropping the point a bit.
It is pretty much all belly, with a recurve back.
2. I would move the blade relative to the handle down a bit. You have a nice thumb stop up top, and none below. I might make them equal.
3. As Stacy said, move the plunge out a bit from the handle. Even though your handle front has a curve, there is a mean angle to it. Match that on the plunge.
4. Angle or slope the front of the handle down to the blade. It does not have to be much. I am not a fan of square handle fronts.

But if you like it, just keep making it. If it sells or fulfills your need then you are good.

It blows my mind, how generous people are to share their knowledge with others. Thank you! It makes things possible for people with limited resources and opportunities!

I took time last night to digest, what you said and will try to make those changes, but will be careful to develop my own style. Now to your questions:

1. Yes. I am a sucker for skinner knives. This started out as a skinner and i made changes after testing each one. I like the point high, as i think it gives more cutting edge. Is a huge belly a bad thing? I really don't know? The blade also spreads butter nicely (no joke)

2. Agree - currently i work with precut steel stock and this gives me some limitations. I will change.

3. This bugs me now - yes.

4. Yes. I will change.

I am not good at selling. Time will tell. What i believe in is to do the things i like and to have my own thing. The people i have shared this with usually do not like too unorthodox shapes. People in Bulgaria are manly conservative.


Again - thank you! God bless and more power to you!

 

[Rusev]

I am not against curves, but too many gets distracting ( and inefficient).
Imaging a shapely woman's silhouette. The two outer bulges and the thinner waist make for a very pleasing and accepted form. If you add extra to the top, or to the bottom, the effect is different, but still will be pleasing to most folks. Even if you add extra to both top and bottom, some folks will see that as pleasing ( just watch a telenovela).
Now, add an extra bulge in the waist area ( two waists) or add a third breast, and see how off-putting the change is. Even fairly small extra additions don't work well.

A knife should flow. The flow is usually along slightly curved lines. The curve is what makes it look "comfortable" to the eye. However, when there are too many curves, or too many ins and outs, it starts to fall apart visually. At the same time, the extra stuff rarely works in the hand, either.

When designing a knife start with a midline down the drawing sheet (1/4" segment graph paper is best).
Mark the OAL (tip and butt) on the line. Mark the handle/blade junction on the line. Draw the knife full size on the midline.
Usually you want the point near the midline, and the butt center a bit below the line. I like the butt top at the midline.
I draw a low arc with the tip on the line to the butt top on the line. The arc rises about 1/4" above the handle/blade junction. The arc doesn't have to be a circle segment, just a continuous curve.
I draw a second downward arc to establish the width of the blade. The arc appogee is the desired blade thickness, and usually 2/3 the distance from the tip. Like the tp curve, the arc can change curvature as long as the curve continues.
All other features are drawn with reference to these curves.
I add straighter lines in places where the blade or handle will need straighter lines.
I rough in the basic blade edge shape and any change the point position as needed ( drop point, raised point, tanto, etc.)
After establishing the basic edge shape add a basic reverse curve to form a handle bottom with a thinner waist. You probably will add a palm swell to that, but the reference inward curve will tell you if the palm bulge is too much. You will quickly see tat finger grooves don't work well along that curve. A single front finger groove that smoothly fairs back into the palm swell is what I shoot for.
The butt gets shaped as needed, usually in some amount of Bird's Head.
Final details like pin/rivet hole position, pluge lines, choils, harpoon tips and clips, etc. ar added after all the silhouette lines are finished.
Before long the whole blade is sketched and final adjustments made to have a good "FLOW".

It is sort of like drawing a nude figure from circles, triangles, and squares. Once all the areas are placed, the details can be easily drawn in.

Thank you! All this will take me time to digest. This opens my eyes to how much thought and work goes into a serious knife! Love the Bird's Head! As a person i always question what is already proven as excellent, however i need to quench the ego in order for me to grow.

 

[Rusev]

Once again, knives are SO subjective that no answer will be completely right, or completely wrong. Even in Stacey's points! Some merit to a couple points, but his criticism of the Swedge or clip point, which he is referring to as a "sharpened clip", is a 100% personal opinion! As is the curve, and the ricasso being too small. "IMHO", I t is not a style of knife I find attractive. And I think fancy wood scales are among the most ugly things one can do to a knife! However, those are MY OPINIONS, which are completely different from others. Besides the very small things wrong, I think you're overall execution is very, very good! Will they sell for $1000 each? Not likely. CBut you will absolutely be able to sell them for a price! And actually, I think that ANYONE who asks $1000 for a hand made knife is smoking crack! THAT is a person suffering from an EXTREME case of narcissism!

Thank you! I understand what you said. I love knives when they work good. If i pay that much for one i will probably never use it. If you admit you are a narcissist i start not to believ you

 

[Rusev]

I know MercWorx does a handle style they call “Chili handled” as in a chili pepper. Although not really in line with my preferred grip style apparently it is supposed to be quite comfortable.

Just thought it was interesting how it has some awkward curves in the handle.

Thank you! I asked for critique and received it. Writing a good one is not easy and i appreciate it. I find the shape of the handle appealing. I guess my brain is wired that way.

 

[Rusev]

A picture is worth a thousand words, you should post a series of the knives you make so all can see how it has been applied

Yes. I will do that. Thank you for the interest.

 

[Rusev]

I'm no knifemaker but merely a design guy but here are my thoughts:
- can't see anything wrong with finish
- "Front" of grip(in the direction of the plunge) there's a 90° edge on the scales. Makes it look really unfinished imo.
- Front and Back pins might be a bit close to the edge, I'd be afraid that it might crack
- I think one thing that makes it look a bit off overall is the wide handle. Maybe it'd flow better with a less pronunced swell. The blade looks good to me though it's not something I'd use

I don't find the plunge position to be too close to the handle.
Do you have a sketch of the design? Maybe I find some time in the next few days to visualize what I mean from a sketch

This was build as i went. No sketches or anything. I will try to make a sketch with more info and hope the children do not use it as drawing paper.

 

[Rusev]

Reminds me of a Banana Skinner type pattern.. I dont have a problem with the curve in the blade. I would drop the tip to the level of the first handle pin. It gives an index point when the knife is held to the side with your thumb on level with the pin. —————————-the ends of the handle are way to sharp.. lower those and bring the Ricassio back..Since there is no guard, what I do is make a index finger round with my 3/4” small wheel.. Keep going, your doing well!

Yes, index point! I just hope i don't forget! Thank you for the kind words and time! I will 100% add a guard / bolster or even a bolsters at the back.

 

[skillgannon]

This is a similar blade shape that was done well in my opinion. Just for reference . Your knife looks really close to something that I would really love.

 

[gudspelr]

Once again, knives are SO subjective that no answer will be completely right, or completely wrong. Even in Stacey's points! Some merit to a couple points, but his criticism of the Swedge or clip point, which he is referring to as a "sharpened clip", is a 100% personal opinion! As is the curve, and the ricasso being too small. "IMHO", I t is not a style of knife I find attractive. And I think fancy wood scales are among the most ugly things one can do to a knife! However, those are MY OPINIONS, which are completely different from others. Besides the very small things wrong, I think you're overall execution is very, very good! Will they sell for $1000 each? Not likely. CBut you will absolutely be able to sell them for a price! And actually, I think that ANYONE who asks $1000 for a hand made knife is smoking crack! THAT is a person suffering from an EXTREME case of narcissism!

I think blanket statements can be dangerous, because it can lead to assumptions. You make a point to those asking for suggestions on their designs not to take blanket statements from others giving advice (study other people’s work, go with tried and true designs, etc). However, you make a blanket statement that anyone charging $1,000.00 + for a knife is smoking crack and EXTREMELY narcissistic. If figured woods on knives are a crazy notion to you, that’s fine. But don’t put others in a box or imply such negative things about a person for liking something different than you-that happens to cost a lot of money. I’ve had the good fortune to see and hold knives that I’m sure cost that amount and more. The knives were IMPRESSIVE! What should a guy charge when he’s spent hundreds of dollars alone in fine mammoth that still has to be worked? What about mosaic Damascus that the maker spent hours and hours making over days because of all the manipulation required for the pattern? How about the forged integrals like some are doing? The bizarre amount of skill along with the time and finish work to make so many of these knives come from some of the best people I’ve met who have nothing to do with drugs, nor are they on the spectrum of narcissists.

I don’t want to derail the thread for the OP, I just wanted to address something that seems to be inconsistent in your advice. People can all make what they want and follow that path for the people that use their knives. That should include my measly attempts as much as it should for an incredibly accomplished maker who uses very high end materials.

To the OP, you’ve gotten some good advice. Your knife looks well finished. I can understand liking the tip being higher to allow for more belly when skinning. I was once told to make each knife the best one I’ve ever made. You seem to have a great attitude to go along with your skills. I look forward to seeing your future knives.


Jeremy

 

[Drew Riley]

First off, I think you did a great job on the fit and finish. I would agree that the rear pin is a little too far back. I'd personally replace it with a lanyard tube at that location. I don't think there's anything wrong with curves, in and of themselves, though I think the point may be a little high to be used comfortably in many applications. If using it as a skinner that's one thing, but then I think the blade may be a bit longer than it would need to be, thereby sacrificing some control.

As for the swedge, I think it's a matter of personal preference and more of a visual appeal than anything. I personally don't mind it.