Need some help or guidance.

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Miknuyh

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I don't know where I'm suppose to put this thread if it's in the wrong place mods please move. Thanks!

So here it goes recently I sold a knife on the exchange. I received the payment through paypal. After I received the paypal I printed out a shipping label using the address provided to me from paypal. The following day I shipped the knife and provided the buyer the tracking number. I get a pm from him stating that the address on his paypal was incorrect. So we emailed each other back and forth to see what we were able to do. He stated that he will go to his old address and see if he can get it from the new tenants. I searched online to see what I can do and found out that I was able to request package intercept which tries without 100% grantee to send it to a new address which costed $18. We decided to split that fee. I get a email stating that they were unable to intercept the package and it was delivered to the old address. The buyer is trying to get it from the old address with no success.

My question is what happens now. I never had this situation before and I am wondering if any of you guys experienced this situation. The item is insured but I don't believe usps would give me the money because it was delivered to the address provided to them when I was initially shipping it out. Or would they?
 
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I'm not a mod or a seasoned forum member but the typical motto is it is the responsibility of the seller to ensure delivery. On the flip side my personal opinion is it is the loss of the buyer if USPS won't pay out the insurance because how are you supposed to know his address is incorrect and not to question your integrity but as long as the attempted intercept part is true you made your best attempt to correct the issue caused by the buyers mistake. I seriously doubt USPS will pay out due to them having delivered to the address provided.
 
Bummer.


One duty that is on the buyer is to give the seller his correct address.


Interesting to see how this turns out.
 
I hate to say this but I think the buyer is screwed in this deal. At best he can ask the authorities to get involved as the tenants from his old address obviously opened his mail and kept it. It is a federal offense to open mail not shipped to you. Regardless you did your part and I think pay pal will back you if a dispute would come up. Hate it for the buyer but it is 100% his responsibility to make sure he provides you with the correct address! Good luck with it!
 
First of all, General Knife Discussion is for discussing knives. It is not Bladeforums all-purpose bulletin board. FEEDBACK is for discussing deals.

Now to business. PayPal will support the seller who correctly used the buyer's PayPal address. It was the buyer's responsibility to to provide a current address. In fact, PayPal even asks the buyer to confirm the address during the payment process.

I would suggest asking the delivering post office to approach the person receiving mail at the former address.
 
whitty said:
I hate to say this but I think the buyer is screwed in this deal. At best he can ask the authorities to get involved as the tenants from his old address obviously opened his mail and kept it. It is a federal offense to open mail not shipped to you. Regardless you did your part and I think pay pal will back you if a dispute would come up. Hate it for the buyer but it is 100% his responsibility to make sure he provides you with the correct address! Good luck with it!
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This is correct.

The buyer is at 100% fault here. He should have changed the address on his paypal before sending payment.

Youre a stand up guy for attempting to do anything you can to help him. But in the end he should eat the losses.

To the buyer : I would recommend getting authorities involved. If you have proof it was delievered to that address, and they claim they dont have it. Thats mail fraud, and theft, the former being a serious federal offense.

Might even try telling the tenants at your old place you have proof your package was delivered there, and advise them MAIL FRAUD is a federal crime, and that you will pursue this until your package is found.

Stupid mistake on the buyers end, could have cost him his knife...
 
I wouldn't go threatening anyone with mail fraud. They didn't do anything to misdirect the package, they only received it. Postal regulations tell the carrier to deliver as addressed. They don't have to know who lives there, only what address the package is sent to.
 
Buyer's responsibility...not the sellers. If I buy your knife and I tell you my address is 1123 when it's actually 1132 is that your fault?
 
Mod thanks for moving it here. I thought it was suppose to be here but it was neither good or bad. Meaning I didn't have a good or bad experience with they buyer. Haha.

Everyone thanks for the reply and you input I really appreciate it. My question wasn't really asking who's fault it is. It was to find out what we are able to do in this situation. And if USPS can/will pay me the insurance money.

Some replies did give me some good suggestions.

I really can't let a buyer take this hit on his own it was a $200 knife.

Hopefully he can retrieve it...
 
Buyers fault. Kind of.

It happened to me. My PayPal gave an old address but because they couldn't get my signature there the thing went back to FEDEX which got contacted by the seller who gave them my correct address after I contacted him. That was a bit embarrassing.
Anyways not 100% my fault since I removed all my old adresses repeatedly from PayPal but once in a while they pop up again and cause confusion if I don't check every time very carefully. Which I do now that I know that PayPal isn't able to permanently forget my old addresses and inserts them in a random pattern. :rolleyes:
 
Did the buyer just move...like yesterday? I have moved a few times in my life. First thing I do is put in a change of address. That would have solved the problem.

So the buyer spends $200 on a knife and can't seem to let anyone know he/she has moved.

I've bought and sold a fair amount of stuff here and on eBay...it's real clear...buyer MUST provide correct address.

Once that is settled...if you want to make any concessions to them it would be out of the goodness of your heart not there's.
 
As I understand it, the buyer and the seller agreed that the seller would deliver the goods to a certain address. It was the seller's responsibility to see that they were shipped to the agreed address.

The buyer then realizes that he has agreed to the wrong address.

The buyer has a problem.

The seller performed as agreed and has no problem.

Whoever is at the "wrong address" has title to the goods except as against the buyer. Just like finding an item on the sidewalk that was dropped by accident. No criminal implications whatsoever.

The buyer COULD sue to recover the goods delivered in error, using the local Small Claims Court. Strictly a civil matter.
 
I usually agree with you Tom but if a package is delivered to my house bearing the name of another and I decide to keep the property in my state of NH that constitutes the crime of Theft of lost or mislaid property. If the property is valued less than $500 it is a Misdemeanor and if above $500 it's a Felony.

How can it not be criminal? UPS, FEDEX, USPS delivers a Rolex watch, valued at $25,000 to your home addressed to John Doe, a person not living at the residence and certainly not you. Are you saying that I can take ownership of the Rolex, leaving the seller with absolutely no recourse because it is now a "gift" to me even though I am not the addressee?

My 1.2 cent opinion is that the person who takes ownership of this package has a duty to report it as the property of another immediately or he is unlawfully taking the property of another with the purpose to deprive the legitimate owner of said property and that's theft!!!

May I suggest that if a package is ever delivered to your home and addressed to another that you NOT claim it as your own!!
 
Totally on the buyer. In fact had you successfully redirected the package to a different address you would have lost all seller protection and the buyer would win a dispute. Don't ever ship to anything different then PayPal provides you, ever.
 
Yup, technically you can't ship to a non paypal address and be protected by paypal. This is 100% on the buyer and that is the way paypal will see it. I don't believe the seller is on the hook for any of this. Split the loss? Now way. The seller would be getting screwed because of the buyers mistake.

When I buy I always double check the paypal address. Then, in the email or pm I send to the seller to let them know I have sent payment I also say "paypal should send my address through as....." just so there is no confusion.
 
craytab said:
Yup, technically you can't ship to a non paypal address and be protected by paypal. This is 100% on the buyer and that is the way paypal will see it. I don't believe the seller is on the hook for any of this. Split the loss? Now way. The seller would be getting screwed because of the buyers mistake.

When I buy I always double check the paypal address. Then, in the email or pm I send to the seller to let them know I have sent payment I also say "paypal should send my address through as....." just so there is no confusion.
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13 year Paypal member here. craytab is totally correct.
 
wolfmann601 said:
I usually agree with you Tom but if a package is delivered to my house bearing the name of another and I decide to keep the property in my state of NH that constitutes the crime of Theft of lost or mislaid property. If the property is valued less than $500 it is a Misdemeanor and if above $500 it's a Felony.

How can it not be criminal? UPS, FEDEX, USPS delivers a Rolex watch, valued at $25,000 to your home addressed to John Doe, a person not living at the residence and certainly not you. Are you saying that I can take ownership of the Rolex, leaving the seller with absolutely no recourse because it is now a "gift" to me even though I am not the addressee?

My 1.2 cent opinion is that the person who takes ownership of this package has a duty to report it as the property of another immediately or he is unlawfully taking the property of another with the purpose to deprive the legitimate owner of said property and that's theft!!!

May I suggest that if a package is ever delivered to your home and addressed to another that you NOT claim it as your own!!
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Agreed. This is the case in many states.

To the OP: very commendable that you are attempting to help the buyer resolve this, but if you shipped to the address provided, then it seems like you have fulfilled your end of the deal.
 
Yup...Seller did what he was supposed to do. Nobody wants to be out the funds so a split would work well to leave as friends .. But if I was the buyer I would insist on taking the hit due to the fact that he provided the wrong address though not on purpose but wrong just the same. A way to protect yourself in the future is to always require a signature . Good luck with this .
 
wolfmann601 said:
I usually agree with you Tom but if a package is delivered to my house bearing the name of another and I decide to keep the property in my state of NH that constitutes the crime of Theft of lost or mislaid property. If the property is valued less than $500 it is a Misdemeanor and if above $500 it's a Felony.

How can it not be criminal? UPS, FEDEX, USPS delivers a Rolex watch, valued at $25,000 to your home addressed to John Doe, a person not living at the residence and certainly not you. Are you saying that I can take ownership of the Rolex, leaving the seller with absolutely no recourse because it is now a "gift" to me even though I am not the addressee?

My 1.2 cent opinion is that the person who takes ownership of this package has a duty to report it as the property of another immediately or he is unlawfully taking the property of another with the purpose to deprive the legitimate owner of said property and that's theft!!!

May I suggest that if a package is ever delivered to your home and addressed to another that you NOT claim it as your own!!
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Excellent suggestion.

New Hampshire has changed the common law. At the common law, theft required "asportation," action to deprive the owner or his bailee of possession of the property with the intent to convert the property to the use of the thief.

New Hampshire has removed that element of the offense and even added a duty under the criminal law for the finder to take "reasonable steps" to return the property to the owner.

All good if the law of such an enlightened state governs the case.

When such cases end up in civil court, the result is pretty much inevitable because the finder (who resists returning the property to the owner) can't pass the judge's "What's wrong with you?" test. Further the judge's last words almost always are "defendant to pay all costs."

So if you are in New Hampshire and a roast duck flies into your open mouth, do not chew, much less swallow.


And I missed an entirely added problem. :o Converting U.S. Mail addressed to another, even at the same street address, is a whole other kettle of federal hurt. Five years in a federal slam would be no fun.
 
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