Need stainless advice

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
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Now that my oven is done and I have LN in the house I'm now opening up to the idea of stainless.
I'm putting togather a steel order and thinking about picking up some stainless for my 2nd Amentment knives. In the past these knives have been made from 5160 which worked great but one thing has bothered me and that is these knives get a paracord handle wrap. I have been concerned with rusting when the paracord gets wet. I have not had any reports back that this happens but it's a very real possibility.

So with all that being said I'm looking for a good stainless replacement for 5160. Somthing tough, easy to finish, good wear resistance and not crazy expensive. The only reasion I say not crazy expensive is because I offer these knives at a low price and would like to continue to do so. My first thought is AEB-L seams like a good option but being that I have never worked with stainless I'm not sure. So any advice with this would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the knife I'm wanting the stainless for.

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Have you given any thought to 3v? Not stainless but its a awesome steel now that you have the tools to HT it.. I like AEB-L a lot and we have been using it for a fairly long time. Its relatively easy to heat treat and is tougher than many people give it credit for. I also like cpm S35vn a lot in stainless..Its a tough stainless steel..
 
Not the answer you're looking for, but I prefer 5160. Maybe a Clear Cera-kote, or even a fine layer of clear epoxy on the tang before the wrap? And you wouldn't have to change your HT formula. Just a thought....

But, if it were me, I'd probably go with D2. Not a true stainless, but likely close enough for 99% of users. Collectors would never notice the difference.

Nice knife, btw! Very nice....
 
I have thought about 3V and was planing on ordering some anyway for a larger knife design. But how is 3V for corrosion resistance. I don't epoxy coat the paracord because part of the design is being able to remove the 12-13 ft of paracord if needed.
 
I find its pretty resistant, Not stainless of course but with 7.5% chromium its not hard to take care of at all..Ive carried it personally a lot and did very little maintenance with no rust problems..
The heat treat can really effect the corrosion resistance of it too. The lower temper will leave more free chrome.. We use the 1975° aust temp with 400° tempers and cryo/dry ice heat treat..Butcher block talked about this heat treat some time ago..Then I brought up a big thread about it about 4 years ago.. It was a point of contention for some time, the temper temp on 3v..Someone got butthurt of the idea of using this heat treat over another.. Ive always subscribed to the idea that there is always a better way out there if we look. I like the 400° temper much,much better than the 950° temper.. It will support a very thin edge and is incredibly tough..
 
I didn't mean to coat the paracord, just a smooth thin coat of epoxy on the tang, before the cord wrap. It was just a thought...
 
440c, cpm-154, or maybe AEB-L if you didn't mind thinner stock. I'd probably use either 440c or 154 if I was try to save money. People seem to poo poo 440c but it's a damn good steel with a good heat treat. Randall uses it and they're renowned for their toughness.
 
Randall uses 440B unless they have changed in recent years. You can get AEB-L in .196 thickness now. Voestapline is able roll it that thick at their new million Austria
JG Custom Metal Works said:
440c, cpm-154, or maybe AEB-L if you didn't mind thinner stock. I'd probably use either 440c or 154 if I was try to save money. People seem to poo poo 440c but it's a damn good steel with a good heat treat. Randall uses it and they're renowned for their toughness.
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jdm61 said:
Randall uses 440B unless they have changed in recent years. You can get AEB-L in .196 thickness now. Voestapline is able roll it that thick at their new million Austria
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Okay, 440b then. Either way, both are good steels when heat treated right. Also, when they're from a source that makes sure the steel is in spec and doesn't have a bunch of inclusions and whatnot.
 
JT, I like CPM 154 the best but it is much more expensive than 440 C. Most of my personal knives are ground from 440 C. You can shop around and get great prices on 440 C . Try Admiral Steel and Pops' Knife Supply for prices. Just my opinion. Here is a 440 C knife I made last year. Larry

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That is a nice looking knife. Made from a thinner stock with a skeletonised handle it would make a great necker.

If you want to go with a US made steel I would use CP-154. It takes a fantastic edge, it is relatively easy to resharpen and it is a full powder steel.

if you want to try something a little different you could use RWL-34. It is made by ERA steel in Sweden and it is at the base steel for Damasteel. RWL-34 is a full powder steel and it has a second heat treat protocol which gives it phenomenal toughness.

Both RWL-34 and CPM-154 both need a full cryogenic quench.

Please let me know if you make a few of these from RWL or CPM, I would like to order one.

I look forward to see your result........Steven:)
 
Funny thing is CPM-154 never crossed my mind. It's a steel that for some reason I wrote off as meh steel. I have no idea why or what gave me that idea.
 
Cts -XHP cost a little more but has a straight forward easy heat treat and is easy to work with + is a very good performer.

From Carpeneter - CTS XHP alloy is powder metallurgy, air-hardening, high carbon, high chromium, corrosion-resistant alloy. It can be considered either a high hardness 440C stainless steel or a corrosion-resistant D2 tool steel.
 
Any of the steels mentioned WILL rust under the conditions you've described. They are not stain free just stain LESS. The only steel that I can think of that will not rust over time in that application is Z-FiNit.
 
Since the owner can remove the paracord, clean the tang, and re-wrap it, I'm not sure why you are concerned about rust. Unless you think the owner can't properly do the re-wrap, and if that's the case, why not make the paracord permanent? With appropriate waterproofing, etc.
 
That is a concern, rewraping the handle would be difficult after removing the cord. It takes me 1/2-1hr to wrap it and I invented the wrap I use. It would be difacult and time consuming for the customer to remove the wrap every time thy service the knife. Plus the cord is trimmed after wrapping and tucked under the wrap so the length of cord is shorter then needed to do the wrap the first time.

As to sealing the wrap, that's a possibility but that would not necessarily seal the tang from water preventing rusting. If it does then that defently is a good option to consider but I have never epoxyed paracord befor. One feature of this knife is you can unwrap the handle and it gives you 12-13 feet of para cord to use in a survival situation if needed and the handle is still usable.

Man z-finit looks nice but damn pricy. Might be worth trying on chunk to see how it works out.
 
Is 440-C have different components in tyhe last couple of years than in the past? I found in use it wasn't a great edge holder. I'm sure AEB-L would be a better choice and for something really great for both working and edge holding, go to M390 or Elmax.
Frank
 
Having tried to re-wrap the handles of an old Ek bowie which has a MUCH simple wrap pattern, I would say epoxy the handle and send the customer an extra 15 feet of paracord, maybe wrapped around the sheath. :D
JTknives said:
That is a concern, rewraping the handle would be difficult after removing the cord. It takes me 1/2-1hr to wrap it and I invented the wrap I use. It would be difacult and time consuming for the customer to remove the wrap every time thy service the knife. Plus the cord is trimmed after wrapping and tucked under the wrap so the length of cord is shorter then needed to do the wrap the first time.

As to sealing the wrap, that's a possibility but that would not necessarily seal the tang from water preventing rusting. If it does then that defently is a good option to consider but I have never epoxyed paracord befor. One feature of this knife is you can unwrap the handle and it gives you 12-13 feet of para cord to use in a survival situation if needed and the handle is still usable.

Man z-finit looks nice but damn pricy. Might be worth trying on chunk to see how it works out.
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Because it isn't as sexy as S35Vn, Elmax, M390, CTS 20V S90V, etc. ;) But is is supposedly fairly tough. With that said, from what I have seen with some recent "abuse" tests with AEB-L, I would at least try a blade using that crusty old stuff.
JTknives said:
Funny thing is CPM-154 never crossed my mind. It's a steel that for some reason I wrote off as meh steel. I have no idea why or what gave me that idea.
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