Neutral feedback. When do you give it?

[Omega Leather Works]

First, I've never had to give negative or neutral feedback here, but I'm wondering...

At what point do you consider giving a person neutral feedback? I've always been a "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" kind of guy, but when it comes to feedback I feel like it's our responsibility to inform each other (the next person to deal with whoever you dealt with) of what your experience was.

I know that on another forum, totally unrelated to knives, I wish that the person that I dealt with had something other than a ton of positive feedback as my experience was anything but positive.

Still, it would have to be pretty bad for me to leave neutral feedback since I know that it would affect me deeply if someone did it to me.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

If the transaction didn't go well because of the other person, but wasn't bad enough to warrant a Neg would be my answer. What happened?

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Nothing happened. I've had great experiences thus far, but I got to thinking about what it would take for me to leave neutral or negative feedback.

I guess I would reserve negative feedback for transactions where I got ripped off, or straight lied to. Neutral feedback, I guess, I'd use for really poor communication or maybe in a situation where we couldn't reach some sort of agreement.

All of that said, I have a hard time seeing myself ever leaving neutral feedback, if I'm honest.

Here's another question. Would you ever buy from someone that had negative or neutral feedback? I almost did a trade with a person that had 1 negative in maybe 20 transactions. The deal didn't happen, but it wasn't because of the feedback. It did concern me though.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

If you don't reach an agreement, there's no deal. You don't leave feedback at all. I've had 2 trades so far where we agreed to ship at the same time, and the other party decided not to ship until after my knife got there. To me, I could have left a neutral for either of those times. Not a neg, because I did get my end both times.

The answer to that question is maybe. I'd look at the feedback, the original ad, and more importantly, the person who left that feedback. I'd look at their posts to see if they're normally high-strung and angsty, because that might make me dismiss any feedback they leave. Now if the trading partner has 2 or more negs, that's a different story.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I've had 2 trades so far where we agreed to ship at the same time, and the other party decided not to ship until after my knife got there.

That's one situation that occurred to me in particular. It bothers me when someone doesn't act in the manner that they claim they will. I don't expect people to be as friendly or chatty as me (I *may* be slightly chatty ), but I do expect for you to do what you say you'll do, deliver what you say you'll deliver and respond to reasonable questions via email (or whatever means of communication that we initiated) in a timely manner.

I understand that life happens. It has happened to me, but I will absolutely go way out of my way to do what I can to make good on my promises, and if I can't for some reason (it's never happened) I'll, at the very least, appologize profusely.

Excellent packaging (except for once when I ran out of stuffing, but I'd still call it good, and there were no problems), prompt shipping, a tracking number, insurance (if we agree to that, or any other tack on services) and excellent communication is job 1 to me when it comes to trades.

Would you think it odd if a potential trader asked you, point blank, how you do things, and what they could expect of you? I actually welcome it.
Maybe I'm weird. Maybe I expect too much from others. Maybe I work really hard for my money and things, and expect others to as well, I don't know.

I probably couldn't leave neutral feedback though. I guess it's nothing, or if it's bad enough, negative for me.

Maybe I'm asking in the wrong place (or maybe I should be asking a mod?), but is there any recourse for clearing feedback should the situation change? I'd feel better about leaving honest feedback for someone (that might help the next guy) if I knew that it could be changed should it prove to put enough pressure on the other party to resolve the matter. In other words, to use it as a tool to get things right.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

I don't think that's odd at all, and it's happened several times. I expect that from someone about to send several hundred $$$, or the equivalent value in knives, to someone they've never met. If the person has little or no feedback I ask them to ship first on a trade, spelling out exactly what they can expect from me. I think that's eased a few nervous minds. Communication is very important, all through the deal. In a trade, the deal isn't done until both sides are happy. I've reversed deals, and had a deal reversed on me, and they've gone smoothly because both sides keep communicating. Good manners also helps, especially when the deal isn't working out. I've lost count of the times I've stopped negotiating on a deal because the other person was rude. Not just here, mostly other forums I'm on. I figure if they're rude before the deal is done, I don't even want to deal with them in case something goes wrong. And believe me, things do go wrong. No matter how hard I try, I can miss something in the description, the post office can take too long or lose a package, etc....

You can edit your feedback, at least right after you post it. And yes, the mods can delete a feedback so you can start again. One way to put pressure on someone not doing right is to start a thread in here AFTER attempts to resolve the issue privately have failed. Don't post a bashing thread the day you get a knife that's not up to expectations, etc. PM or email back to the person and give them time to work with you. If they don't, or don't send you what you paid for, then start the thread. You'll get support from us and the mods trying to help get it made right.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Thank you very much for your help. I think we're on the same page, and I'm glad for that.

Let me ask you another question since you have experience with the situation. When reversing a deal, how do you deal with shipping? Do you both just pay your end, or do you ask the requesting party to cover return (or all?) shipping?

If the deal was well represented, but the other party just didn't like the item, I'd have a hard time spending the $20 or whatever for their change of heart. Is that unreasonable, I mean, do you just consider that part of the risk in trading in general, or is it okay to expect them to cover fees?

I'm rather new to this sub-forum, but I'm learning a lot.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

If I misrepresent something, I offer to cover the return shipping. I'd expect the same if the knife sent to me wasn't as described. If it's a change of mind, that's less cut and dried to me. The person with the change of heart should usually be willing to pay for both return shipping costs, assuming they simply changed their mind. I've either paid my return shipping, or in one case the other party offered to cover it and I accepted. But I see eating the occasional shipping fee for nothing as a part of trading life. If you put yourself in the other person's shoes and try to do right, and they do the same, you'll usually come up with the best solution.

One thing that's emphasized around here is to make sure you want what you're trading for. If you get in the habit of reversing deals because you just didn't like the knife, no one will want to trade with you. A lot of us trade back and forth, and I've seen the same knife travel through half a dozen or more of us. I've gotten a knife and traded it away the very next day because I wasn't crazy about it, or because someone wanted it and dangled something even more tempting to me. It's generally better to do that than to reverse a trade without cause.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Excellent.

That about sums it up I think. It appears that the way that I do business is the same as you, and while I'd like to assume that I'm doing things the right way, it never hurts to run it by your peers for clarity.

Thanks again, and happy trading.

 

[bld522]

One thing that's emphasized around here is to make sure you want what you're trading for. If you get in the habit of reversing deals because you just didn't like the knife, no one will want to trade with you.

I agree. It isn't the responsibility of the other party to make sure I'm going to like a knife when I receive it. Liking the knife is on me . . . periodl Representing the condition of the knife properly (i.e., full disclosure), shipping it promptly as agreed and providing good communication are all that's required of the other party in my estimation. If a breakdown occurs in any of those areas, then the transaction moves from "positive" (default) to "neutral" to "negative" depending upon how large the infraction may be.

PS: For what it's worth, I've never had to issue neutral or negative feedback here. Either I've been lucky or that's a testament to the integrity of the folks I've dealt with.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I almost wish that the feedback system could be a little more intricate, but it does work.

One time I set up a trade with a fellow from Canada. I'm in the USA. Anyway, the deal was definitely in my favor, at least in my mind, and the other party only had one feedback. While looking at his feedback I realized that the one person that he had dealt with was also someone who I had just completed a successful transaction with. I contacted the other guy and he vouched for the guy with one feedback.

The deal went extremely well, and I've now been able to trade into knives that I never would have gotten a chance to have because of it.

I'm not sure that I would have done the deal if it weren't for the system, and I'm so glad that I did.

It does work.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Excellent.

That about sums it up I think. It appears that the way that I do business is the same as you, and while I'd like to assume that I'm doing things the right way, it never hurts to run it by your peers for clarity.

Thanks again, and happy trading.

You're welcome! Don't take my answers as the be-all, end-all, I'm just one person in a big exchange. Take a look at other threads in this section here, you'll see a good cross section of people doing things right or doing them wrong and getting called out one way or the other.

Happy trading to you too, see you around the Exchange!

I agree. It isn't the responsibility of the other party to make sure I'm going to like a knife when I receive it. Liking the knife is on me . . . periodl Representing the condition of the knife properly (i.e., full disclosure), shipping it promptly as agreed and providing good communication are all that's required of the other party in my estimation. If a breakdown occurs in any of those areas, then the transaction moves from "positive" (default) to "neutral" to "negative" depending upon how large the infraction may be.

PS: For what it's worth, I've never had to issue neutral or negative feedback here. Either I've been lucky or that's a testament to the integrity of the folks I've dealt with.

I'd say it's a little of both. Mostly damn good people here, but it can never be 100% here. As an open forum, there's always going to be scammers and general scum here, we always have to keep our guard up. I've even seen high feedback members go bad in recent months, so good feedback alone can't let you drop your guard. Building up a rating of over 60, then stealing the price of a Hinderer is now known as "Pulling a Snowreaper1".

 

[bld522]

Good point, Lone_Wolfe! I'm not exactly sure how I'd handle a high-end trade. So far the most expensive thing I've traded away is a Large Sebenza and fortunately, that trade went well . . . partly because the other party was willing to send me their knife before I sent mine to them. But there's always some risk involved in trading. And I always approach it cautiously.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Good point, Lone_Wolfe! I'm not exactly sure how I'd handle a high-end trade. So far the most expensive thing I've traded away is a Large Sebenza and fortunately, that trade went well . . . partly because the other party was willing to send me their knife before I sent mine to them. But there's always some risk involved in trading. And I always approach it cautiously.

A quick peek at your feedback tell me you're someone I could probably trust, and I most likely wouldn't ask you to ship first. But I'll admit, I'd still be a bit nervous until your knife was in my hands. I always am, that's just a lot of money to lose if something goes bad. I know a lot of new folks have trusted me, and been nervous as hell for good reason, so I try to reassure as much as possible. Tracking #'s given the night the trade or sale is made, pic of the knife with the shipping label, etc. Just because I know it would ease my mind if I was on the other end.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Exactly, that's why I always email a pic of the shipping receipt as soon as I ship.

I just completed a trade where I shipped a knife that was almost $500 and that was to a member with 1 feedback. I'll admit to being a bit nervous. The concept of having the other party ship first is not a bad one at all. My wife suggested a PayPal escrow, but that would require both parties to put up the cash value (I think) and that could very well be a deal breaker.

I only have, what, 6-7 feedback? I'm not sure that I can go asking for people to ship first.

Here's a question. Would it help if I showed you feedback from another forum? What about ebay? I've sold well over 100 items on eBay with perfect feedback.

I told the guy that just shipped me this Sebenza (and a really nice flashlight) that he need not worry, and that I'm trustworthy, but I'm not sure that that helps, or makes you sound suspicious for acknowledging the idea of a possible problem with trading.

So silly. It's obvious, I know, but I wish that people were just more honorable.

 

[Dan57]

Here's a question. Would it help if I showed you feedback from another forum? What about ebay? I've sold well over 100 items on eBay with perfect feedback.

That'd definitely help increase confidence, (at least for me.) Absolutely. How wouldn't it?

I told the guy that just shipped me this Sebenza (and a really nice flashlight) that he need not worry, and that I'm trustworthy, but I'm not sure that that helps, or makes you sound suspicious for acknowledging the idea of a possible problem with trading.

I'd think it was borderline suspicious, but nothing to cancel a deal over.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Ebay feedback helps a little, but I don't think of it as being as good as feedback from a less regulated forum. Ebay's buyer protection is better than an open forum. Still, it's better then no feedback at all. Your rating is 7, which is around the border of where I stop asking you to ship first. One thing I look at is not only the comments, but what is is you've been trading. If you've traded in Spydercos and suddenly ask me to cross-ship a Hinderer I'm going to hear an alarm go off in my head. I'm also going to look at who you made the trades with. If it's some of the usual suspects in the Exchange, I'll feel better than if I've never seen those names before. If they're a bunch of one post wonders that's a serious red flag for me. I'm going to consider the possibility of shill accounts.

I'm always upfront about the risks, and try to put my trading partner at ease. When I price something, I say 'net to me'. That way if the person feel comfortable, they can pay me with paypal gift and save $10 to $30 bucks, depending on price. If the person asks which I recommend I always emphasize the part about them having to trust me, and point out the risk of using that because there's no recourse if I were to rip them off. I'm especially carefully to keep them up to date on the transaction if they pay me that way, since they're really trusting me.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

My rating is 7? Good to know. That's one of the pitfalls to using tapatalk exclusively to surf forums. It makes posting, and posting pics, surfing etc..., very easy on a phone or my kindle, but I can't see feedback.

Totally ot, but do you guys ever throw bonus stuff in? Maybe it's silly, I don't know, but I think it's nice. I saw an "un boxing" video once where the guy opened his trade on camera, and there was a ton of extra goodies in the box. I think a couple of extra knives, a little Pelican box and a nice letter.

What about packaging? Have you ever used a padded envelope? I've received two trades in these including the Sebbie and a very LE Benchmade (from out of country) and I'm not sure how I feel about them. All of my handmade knives have come this way too now that I think of it. I think I shipped in a padded envelope one time, and I think we agreed on it. This last trade was kind of odd because the other party said that he would not use usps at all because he disliked it and that he'd only ship ups. I was fine with that, but when the tracking number didn't work I tried it on the usps site and there it was. I'd have to say very light on the communication with that trade. A lot of unanswered questions, but people get busy I guess.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

My rating is 7? Good to know. That's one of the pitfalls to using tapatalk exclusively to surf forums. It makes posting, and posting pics, surfing etc..., very easy on a phone or my kindle, but I can't see feedback.

Totally ot, but do you guys ever throw bonus stuff in? Maybe it's silly, I don't know, but I think it's nice. I saw an "un boxing" video once where the guy opened his trade on camera, and there was a ton of extra goodies in the box. I think a couple of extra knives, a little Pelican box and a nice letter.

What about packaging? Have you ever used a padded envelope? I've received two trades in these including the Sebbie and a very LE Benchmade (from out of country) and I'm not sure how I feel about them. All of my handmade knives have come this way too now that I think of it. I think I shipped in a padded envelope one time, and I think we agreed on it. This last trade was kind of odd because the other party said that he would not use usps at all because he disliked it and that he'd only ship ups. I was fine with that, but when the tracking number didn't work I tried it on the usps site and there it was. I'd have to say very light on the communication with that trade. A lot of unanswered questions, but people get busy I guess.

Yep, 7. All for trades, for respectable knives, and all glowing. A real good start here.

Bonus stuff, not as a rule, but it happens. The trouble with throwing something like a bonus scale with a Hinderer is it's costs $65 for the least expensive ones. And I don't throw in extra knives, because of the price of what I keep here. Not saying that to be a jerk, but I simply don't have any inexpensive knives around here anymore. I donated the last of them to a good cause auction.

Packaging, that's an important subject in my book. I once got an XM-18 in a padded envelope and wasn't a happy camper. The box they ship from Hinderer in had to be broken down and it looked pretty rough. When possible, I ship in USPS small flat rate boxes. I always insure for at least $300, that way it has to be signed for. That much insurance and a small flat rate box costs $10.25 to ship if you buy the postage online. That's a small price to pay for the protection, both in the form of the buyer not being able to claim he/she didn't get it when they did, and against loss enroute. I saw you traded away a Southard, worth around $200, I think? $10.25 is about 5%. Another thing I so is save and re-use packaging. When you get a knife from me, the knife may be packaged with peanuts, newspaper, bubblewrap, etc. But the point is, it'll be protected from damage as much as I can. Once you pay or trade me for a knife, it's my responsibility to get it to you, safely and in the same condition I represented it to be. Padded envelopes are fine for something like a scale or lanyard, but not enough protection for a $350 knife IMHO.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

I almost wish that the feedback system could be a little more intricate, but it does work.

One time I set up a trade with a fellow from Canada. I'm in the USA. Anyway, the deal was definitely in my favor, at least in my mind, and the other party only had one feedback. While looking at his feedback I realized that the one person that he had dealt with was also someone who I had just completed a successful transaction with. I contacted the other guy and he vouched for the guy with one feedback.

The deal went extremely well, and I've now been able to trade into knives that I never would have gotten a chance to have because of it.

I'm not sure that I would have done the deal if it weren't for the system, and I'm so glad that I did.

It does work.

I really enjoy the chance to deal with someone that's new here, and have them get a start on their trading rep. I've made some great friends here that way. Of course I have to use extra care, like having them ship first, but I've had some of my most enjoyable dealings with newbies. Here's a thread that could serve as a textbook example of how to leave a good impression on me. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1022298-Diamond-Plate-Sebenza-for-Small