Never pay for over-night shipping.

Hi Kevin,

Don't take my post personally. Actually I hadn't read your previous response before I posted.

I wasn't comparing business's. I was comparing customer service. When I do order things on line from companies who stock 10,000 items. Generally you receive an autoresponder message letting you know that they have received your email.

Then a follow up email letting you know the shipping status.

Some even give you a url to track your package.

Iventory management is crucial to a successful business, no matter what size.

Failure to manage your inventory and keep your customers updated are poor business practices.

If you going to use the Internet to get business. Then learn to treat your Internet customers as if they were walking into your store.

As a purveyor in a "niche" market I do provide extra customer service. Although no matter what market I was in, I would do this.

What amazes me is the attitude that some of these Internet dealers have towards their customers.

Kevin, you operate in a retail market that has thousands of comeptitors. On the internet, at gun shows, knife shows, malls, etc.

It seems by this complaint is common among some Internet dealers. If it was my business I would use this "lack of customer service" as the focal point for my next update of my business plan for next year.

I would make it my corner stone to give the best customer service on the Internet for your market.

Don't make excuses for it. Make "customer notification/satisfaction" your company's benchmark for next year.
 
I'm not making excuses for anything, Les. I'm telling it like it is.

It's impossible for everything to be in stock at any given time. It's also impossible to know realisticly what level of contact a customer wants when an item is out of stock. If the customer does not put any special instructions with their order, then it's assumed that they have no problem with it shipping at the requested delivery rate when the item comes back in stock.

In a perfect world, all knives would be available at all times from all manufacturers or their distributors. In reality, this is not the case. For example, the Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers is going to be released around Christmas. As a result, we can expect a rush on replica Sting swords leading up to, and just after it's release. Unfortunately, United Cutlery has allowed just about every distributor in the country to run out of them - I know, because I've called most of them. Better yet, none have a firm ETA on when those swords will be coming in - whether before Christmas, or in 2003. Until last week, everyone had this sword in the hundreds. 1 week later, the supply has run out. There is no managing that inventory, because you can't predict those sales trends adequetely - and once you run out, and everyone else has run out, there's no way to immediately get more. The best you can do is contact the customer and continue searching for more. That's only one of several items I can name that are in short supply, but high demand - causing delays with orders that are not the fault of the dealer. You call that poor inventory management on the part of the dealer. I call that demand exceeding supply.

You have no room to lecture on poor business practices because you don't know what you are talking about. I find it incredibly arrogant and immature that you would make such proclamations based on broad generalizations. Furthermore, you operate on such a small scale, that you have no place lecturing larger dealers on how they operate. We are a "large" dealer and we go out of our way to make sure the customers have accessability to us - we have email, we have multiple phone lines, we provide toll free numbers, fax lines, & more. When a customer places an order, they get a confirmation of that order immediately. When the item is shipped, the customer is emailed a link to package tracking, and notified that the package is going out. Despite that, we are not psychic - we cannot know what level of contact a customer wants, and as such, provide them several easy ways to contact us. We're available. We've got a phone number that we will be at during business hours. Despite all that, it's simply not possible to have everything in stock at all times, and shipped immediately - the crux of this persons argument.

To stand on your soap box and proclaim that dealers should go even further and presumably personally phone each customer to give them repeated updates on their orders is impractical, as well as not cost effective. That time is better spent concentrating on filling as many orders as possible - and getting as many as possible completed in as short a time as possible. That's not an excuse, that's reality.

The knife industry is not electronics. It's not books, or videos, or movies. It's very ineffiecient and more fluid - with a resultant lack in automations. Knives aren't drop shipped hither & yon by multiple suppliers. That will change as the industry matures more, but for now, that's the status quo.

Kevin
 
There must be people reading this thread who don't know the people posting. Les Robertson deals in fine custom knives, and buying from him is like buying a Rolls Royce -- he communicates personally with every customer.

When you buy from a high-volume dealer in manufactured knives it's different -- it's more like buying from a store. You find what you want on the website, you fill out an order form, you decide whether you want next-day shipping or not and you check the box. Later a human being (an employee though, not the owner) reads your order. He sees you ordered a knife that isn't in stock but it will be in a few days. He sees you ordered next-day shipping. If he sees you wrote in what you'd like him to do if the knife isn't in stock he'll do it -- cancel the order, cancel the next-day shipping, whatever you want. If you didn't write in any special instructions he'll give you exactly what you asked for -- next-day shipping as soon as he can ship it. If that's not what you want, say so!

The member who started this thread said "never pay for overnight shipping." That's a reasonable decision IMHO ... or you could decide not to order overnight shipping unless that's what you want, and if you want something different -- something like overnight shipping only if the item is in stock and ordinary ground shipping otherwise, or overnight shipping if the item is in stock otherwise cancel the order, or ... whatever you want, order that.
 
Kevin,

You need to re-read what I wrote. It is you who seems to enjoy jumping on the soap box.

Actually, I do have room to talk about poor business practices. I have given seminars on just this very topic in the US as well as Canada. I have already been signed to do two Seminars next year.

Couple that with being in business for over 16 years and an MBA. It's not arrogance it is experience.

Kevin, basic principles for operating a successful business are the same no matter what the size of the business. As the boss, everything your business does or does not accomplish falls back to you.

The fact that your suppliers cannot fill your orders means they did a piss poor job of forecasting. If this is going to cause you to miss sales in your big season. Stop doing business with them. Why spend your money with a company that can't perform? Why do you allow them to give you excuese?

Then again maybe they are not filling your orders because they view you as just a small dealer and are busy filling the orders of the "Large" dealers.
 
Hahahaha! Now I know you don't know what you are talking about, Les.

Let's see, Moteng, Blue Ridge, Matthews Cutlery, Wu Jau, and more have all run out of inventory needed for the holidays and you say not to do business with them? Les, again, you need to learn the difference between reality and theory. Are you going to say that they need to stop doing business with United Cutlery, one of their major cash cows?

Despite every intention, it isn't possible to have every product available at all times. Maybe you should incorporate that into your lectures. Then again, as a "big time dealer" like yourself, maybe you should step on up to them and lecture on how they are screwing up and they should cut off their noses to spite their faces. :rolleyes: I guarantee they didn't teach you that in your MBA courses.

Basic principles are one thing. Specifics are another. Making a generalization like you did is bound not to fit every example.

In the mean time, Big Time, lecture on things you know about, and don't speak on subjects you clearly lack the ability to comprehend.
 
Actually the simple solution (to the original problem) is have the web site availability tied in real time with actual inventory.

If it's out of stock it says so, and if the customer can decide what to do at that point.
 
That is a simple solution that is extremely complex to implement in reality. Many times that software costs in the tens of thousands to implement - and even many "big-time" dealers don't have that. Look at US Cavalry & Brigade Quartermasters as an example.
 
Originally posted by Spark
[B}Are you going to say that they need to stop doing business with United Cutlery, one of their major cash cows?

Despite every intention, it isn't possible to have every product available at all times. [/B]
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Bravo. It isn't possible and, if I recall correctly, United did this last year too with its LOTR series. It is not possible physically nor is it smart financially to have every single item in stock all the time. Take Emersons. That company runs on a different than ordinary production schedule. So, as a dealer, am I supposed to stock heavy - pay all that money long before all the stock will sell? Dealers cannot predict how many items will sell. You can guess. But buyers are fickle. What's hot today may not be tomorrow.

On to something else, my issue with 2nd day and overnight is not the customer service - although I do understand your point. My issue is customers cannot tell when they are ordering if it is possible to make the shipping deadlines. Example, customer wants a knife Friday. He orders Wednesday after 4pm for it to arrive second day UPS. Impossible to meet that deadline. It is difficult to stay on top of shipping - especially if you go through a fulfillment center. However, customers also need to realize shopping cart programs can't cover every single issue (for instance - it can't tell you at 4pm you've missed the second day air deadline). I agree with everything customers have noted here - my comments are not offered as an excuse - but just as an added note to add some perspective to the issue.
 
Originally posted by TheBadGuy
:mad: See what you started Fulloflead!!:D :D
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:D I'm the original poster of this thread.:D

Boy did I open up a can of worms!

I've decided to NOT persue this issue with the dealer and drop the subject.

This is based on much of what I've read on this thread. The two dealers I had ordered from are both fairly big dealers that do a lot of business and I DIDN'T make a phone call and I DIDN'T put any special instructions on my order like some people suggested as far as, "If it's in stock ship it over night. If not ship it ground."

Here's what happened:
1. I ordered at around 1:00 pm on Monday and chose the "UPS Next Day Air" option in my checkout options. I ASSUMED that it ment that I would receive it the next day.
2. Wednesday I received at around 2:00 pm a "Your item has shipped" email from the dealer with a tracking number.
3. Thursday (today) the knife was at my door when I got home.

When I first posted I was PISSED because I didn't understand the system. I was wrong to be pissed.:o I now know that it's reasonable to expect a high-volume business to take a day or two to process my order. I don't know if my item was in stock or not, but I DID get the package the next day after I received the "Shipped" notice.

I STILL wouldn't recommend anyone use the Next Day Shipping option unless they do one or both of the following things I've learned on this thread:
1. CALL the company and ask if the item is in stock and ASK if it will arrive the next day if I pay for next day shipping.
2. Use the "Special Instructions" section to indicate that I'd like next day shipping only if it'll arrive the next day. If not, please ship it Ground.

If I (or you) REALLY want to receive the item the next day I think I need to take SOME responsibility for the proceedings and make an effort to help (or ask) the dealer meet my expectations.

HOWEVER,
1. I do still believe that there should be some sort of disclaimer on EVERY dealers' Check-Out page stating something about how any shipping promise begins ONLY after an order is processed and give an estimate of about how long it takes to process an order.

2. I think if dealers DO have a "Special Instructions" box then those instructions should be read carefully and the customer should be contacted if they cannot be met.

3. I would like to make a suggestion that dealers offer some sort of "Delivery Time Estimation" in their Order Comfirmation. (I realize there's some SERIOUS logistical and software limitations here. Just a suggestion.)

As a side-bar I'd like to add that I think dealers could be a little better about all of this if they really tried and have the budget to do so. I've had GREAT luck with Cabela's shipping. They ship about 4 hours after the order is placed. I've gotten things in two days with regular UPS Ground shipping and I ALWAYS get things overnight if I choose that shipping in their Check Out. (Granted. I'm in CO. They have many stores nearby.)

Even though I now believe my initial opinion was wrong, I'm GLAD I started this thread because SO MANY people, including a few dealers, chimed in to discuss this issue and I learned a thing or two.

I'm glad I didn't name names.;):D
 
If you did order from 1SKS, you have my apologies that it did take that long. And yes, we are working on further improving our service.

Kevin
 
Originally posted by Spark
If you did order from 1SKS, you have my apologies that it did take that long. And yes, we are working on further improving our service.

Kevin
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NOPE! Neither of the two dealers were 1SKS.
 
Hey Fulloflead, I would like to know what knife you wanted so bad that you recently sprung for the overnight??? Just curious. Thanks:)
 
Originally posted by TheBadGuy
Hey Fulloflead, I would like to know what knife you wanted so bad that you recently sprung for the overnight??? Just curious. Thanks:)
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It was a Benchmade 43 Bali-song.

You know; I just got an ITCH. (Been reading a lot about about them and missed my old pre-Benchmade Bali-song that I, regretfully, sold.)

Look up my recent posts. I just made a, hopefully, interesting post about getting something you're really excited about in the mail and mentally "preparing" yourself for the Grand Opening. Later, buddy.:D
 
Originally posted by fulloflead
I WISH! Here in Denver, Colorado I don't know of ANY knife stores....
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Hmmm, I spend a week or two each year in Denver and there is a knife shop on 17th, they sell cigars primarily but also have a nice supply of knives ranging from Spyderco to William Henry. Even a few customs by local makers IIRC. It's in a mini mall and would be within a 15 minute walk of the Rock Bottom Brewery, may be worth a visit. I think I found them in the phone book.

Let me know if you find them.
 
To paraphrase one of y'all's favorite politicos, "define overnight delivery". I suspect that it is used on websites to define the method of delivery, as in "next day". It doesn't necessarily imply when it will be shipped. If it takes 2 days to prepare and ship it, then it will take 3 days rather than 5-7 days to get to you. Just a thought.
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
Hmmm, I spend a week or two each year in Denver and there is a knife shop on 17th, they sell cigars primarily but also have a nice supply of knives ranging from Spyderco to William Henry. Even a few customs by local makers IIRC. It's in a mini mall and would be within a 15 minute walk of the Rock Bottom Brewery, may be worth a visit. I think I found them in the phone book.

Let me know if you find them.
Click to expand...

I know the place. It's in the 16th Street Mall. One of the nicest areas of Denver. Every visitor to Denver should go there. I spend much time there, especially during the summer when they have some nice, free, outdoor concerts there.

I've been in that Cigar store to grab a cigar but I didn't know they had knives. I'm glad you sent that because I always go to the movie theatre in that mall so I'm there often. It's only about a mile or two from where I live. Next time I go down there I'll check out that store again and look for the knives. Thanks a lot!
 
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