Never selling on Fleabay again

Sorry to hear about your loss. I feel for ya as it almost happened to me as well. Luckily someone above had my paths crossed with an avid seller on the Bay and thus she gave me some good tips. Like you I didn't read the fine print but she enlightened me on the popularity and sad consequences of a scam. It prompted me to have a 20 min phone conversation with the folks at Paypal regarding seller protection and coverage. I still sell items on the Bay and thankfully never have run across a scam myself when it cam e to international shipping. After learning of the "fine print" the main thing is getting COD (confirmation of delivery) with domestic or international shipping. It doesn't cost too much more and covers you, the seller, when shipping overseas. However, it doesn't cover you if the item was lost in transit. Thus insurance would cover that. If the buyer doesn't wish to pay for insurance, try to get him or her to sign and date a note saying they waive insurance and if something goes wrong he waives full coverage to you in your favor. I do agree with one of the previous posts mentioning Paypal should wait more time up to 2 months as sometimes packages get lost but then re-routed. If you take these precautions in the future, you can feel confident about selling internationally. That said, happy to support Bladeforums community as well.

Good Luck:thumbup:
 
kalavinka said:
Hey guys, just wanted to share an experience on that auction site with the "e" so you guys don't go through what I had to. I've had several great transactions on the forum so I don't know why I listed my Chris Reeve soldier on ebay instead of here. They already get nearly 10% after fees and paypal fees. Anyways, the buyer who clicked the "buy it now" was from Russia so that was first red flag. I sent it anyways via 1st Class Air and I took photos of all the documents from the Post Office for proof. Well of course a month later I get an email from ebay saying that the item was never received. I go through all the due diligence of posting photos of the documents, trying to contact the buyer etc...and in the end ebay rules in favor of the buyer. Ebay of course only protects buyers and they have all these rules in fine print so that they will never judge in favor of the seller, despite providing the docs, and this is the kicker. My feedback is 349 with 100% feedback and over 10 years as member - the buyer is new is 0 feedback.
In hindsight, I made a couple mistakes of selling to a new member in Russia, but the biggest lesson, trade on the Forum and save money and hassles. The 2nd lesson is ebay will never rule in favor of the seller so beware. I hope this helps anyone avoid what I've just had to deal with. Cheers and thanks BF.
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If this sale had taken place here on the forum, and you accepted PayPal as payment, you would be in the same boat you are in now.
That is because you failed to protect yourself from the possibility of this happening.

You are assuming the item was received, prove it.
And this is the real reason you are in this mess, you can't.

I don't know what first class air means exactly. Did you insure the item, and require a signature on delivery? If so you tell the shipper to prove to you it wasn't lost, have them show you where it was signed for and if they can't they should pay your claim and you will be whole. If you did not insure yourself against loss or damage, you need only to look in a mirror to see who to blame for your loss.

Imagine you as the buyer, and the guy in Russia as the seller. You don't receive your purchase so you make a claim. Would you accept the loss if the guy in Russia provided some pictures of a trip to the post office as proof you received what you paid for?
I seriously doubt it. I'm pretty sure you would want your money back if you didn't receive your item. I know I would.

You can do what you want, but your anger towards eBay is misplaced IMNSHO.
 
kalavinka said:
Hey guys, just wanted to share an experience on that auction site with the "e" so you guys don't go through what I had to. I've had several great transactions on the forum so I don't know why I listed my Chris Reeve soldier on ebay instead of here. They already get nearly 10% after fees and paypal fees. Anyways, the buyer who clicked the "buy it now" was from Russia so that was first red flag. I sent it anyways via 1st Class Air and I took photos of all the documents from the Post Office for proof. Well of course a month later I get an email from ebay saying that the item was never received. I go through all the due diligence of posting photos of the documents, trying to contact the buyer etc...and in the end ebay rules in favor of the buyer. Ebay of course only protects buyers and they have all these rules in fine print so that they will never judge in favor of the seller, despite providing the docs, and this is the kicker. My feedback is 349 with 100% feedback and over 10 years as member - the buyer is new is 0 feedback.
In hindsight, I made a couple mistakes of selling to a new member in Russia, but the biggest lesson, trade on the Forum and save money and hassles. The 2nd lesson is ebay will never rule in favor of the seller so beware. I hope this helps anyone avoid what I've just had to deal with. Cheers and thanks BF.
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Couldn't resist..........

Thanks for the heads-up as to lessons learned. I'm so not wanting to fall in the 'ole briar patch', but it seems so much more prevalent these days...........here and abroad.
 
I think USPS money in most cases are just as fast. You go to any post office in the USA and get cash. It depends how soon you get paid with paypal. On ebay, it can be a few days. When you do get paid and want to use the money elsewhere, you have to wait 3 business days until it shows up in your bank account. If someone doesn't send the money order out promptly, it may take a few days also. The good thing is that you don't pay the fees that you do with ebay and paypal.
 
If the buyer doesn't wish to pay for insurance, try to get him or her to sign and date a note saying they waive insurance and if something goes wrong he waives full coverage to you in your favor.
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I have a different outlook on shipping insurance. Buyers typically want to pay and expect the item to be delivered to them undamaged from shipping. If that does not happen, then buyers usually blame the seller and will leave negative feedback if the seller does not make good on the transaction from their perspective. This is hardly unexpected when you consider that it is generally the seller that packages the item as well as selects and contracts with the shipping carrier. If shipping insurance is involved the buyer may pay for it but, in most cases, is not a party to the transaction to secure it and can't make a claim directly with the carrier that provides it. I choose to self insure smaller ticket items, but with larger ticket items I insure them and include the cost into my pricing. I don't give the buyer the option to buy or reject insurance because the insurance is to protect me and my feedback so it's my call.

Sellers that attempt to claim no responsibility for lost or damaged items during shipping are playing a fast and loose game with feedback/reputation in my opinion. I once bought a knife from a respected maker, who claims no responsibility for shipping issues, and when the package arrived via USPS the poorly protected fixed blade tip was sticking out of the paper envelope it was shipped in. A few more miles of jostling on its way to me and the knife could have easily fallen out of its flimsy vessel and become lost or damaged and naturally I would have demanded a replacement or refund from the maker had that happened as well as taken the issue public if necessary. Claiming no responsibility for lost or damaged items during shipping does not necessarily exclude one from bearing responsibility nor provide protection from negative feedback.
 
FLymon said:
If this sale had taken place here on the forum, and you accepted PayPal as payment, you would be in the same boat you are in now.
That is because you failed to protect yourself from the possibility of this happening.

You are assuming the item was received, prove it.
And this is the real reason you are in this mess, you can't.

I don't know what first class air means exactly. Did you insure the item, and require a signature on delivery? If so you tell the shipper to prove to you it wasn't lost, have them show you where it was signed for and if they can't they should pay your claim and you will be whole. If you did not insure yourself against loss or damage, you need only to look in a mirror to see who to blame for your loss.

Imagine you as the buyer, and the guy in Russia as the seller. You don't receive your purchase so you make a claim. Would you accept the loss if the guy in Russia provided some pictures of a trip to the post office as proof you received what you paid for?
I seriously doubt it. I'm pretty sure you would want your money back if you didn't receive your item. I know I would.

You can do what you want, but your anger towards eBay is misplaced IMNSHO.
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Yes I agree with the above.

It is horrible and WRONG if you've been ripped off by a buyer, but I would be wary of any buyer of an expensive item with no history. It can go both ways, some seller in the US took my money,refused e-mail communication and without Paypal protection I would've been shafted. They found in my favour and re-paid me. He was ripping off all his non US customers either never delivering or sending cheap crap. Without paypal or the Bay I would have a very limited collection of knives, I've only ever had this one bad situation. Imagine if they did nothing to protect the buyer!! The seller can select who he sells to if international shipping is too complex or risky, paypal fees are high but the customer base is large and a quick sale is very likely.
 
I wont ship over seas or Canada, I havent sold very much on Ebay but its to confusing and to much of a hassel with customs. If I sell anything it will be in the U. S. only.
 
there was a member here who sold a balisong to a member in the ukrane. the buyer posted in tgbu that he never got the knife. i did some asking around on another forum and was told (by someone from the area) that the balisong was probably taken by customs so the buyer tried to get his money back for something that was his fault. he also asked the seller to insure it for $100. but when he filed a complaint, he asked for a full refund. i think ebay ruled in favor of the seller so i would be leary of selling to anyone in russia unless they were a paying member here on bf and in good standing. (and follow the instructions esav posted)
 
I have only shipped two knives out of country, and both deals were done here.
One went to Russia, and the other went to a F.O.B in the sandbox. I basically did what Esav said too do, and both went fine. Although I have to be honest, I was really sweating the one that went to Russia, because of the horror stories.

I would much rather deal with other members here. It just seems more personal.

The only time I use the Auction Site is, sometimes there are particular knives, that just don't get a lot of interest here. It doesn't happen often, but it has happened a couple times.
The other plus is, I don't have to continually read in ads, "Add xxx% for Paypal fees". There are a couple knives I am currently looking for, and it seems every time I pull up an ad for a knife I am interested in, it has that in the listing.
I know it shouldn't bother me, but it does, and I refuse too deal with someone that is to lazy to just add it into the price. Besides, it is against PP policy to charge the buyer for fees directly.
 
It's not true that ebay always favors the buyer. Earlier this year, I bought an item that never came (this happened to be the post office's fault.) The USPS tracking said, "Out for Delivery," but it was never confirmed.

So I sent several emails to the seller who didn't return any of them until a few weeks later (he happened to be on vacation.) Before I knew he was on vacation, I thought he was just ignoring my emails, so I opened a case with ebay and everything, explaining the situation.

It just so happens that the day they reviewed the case was the day that the Delivery Confirmation was updated. They ruled in the seller's favor, saying that the item had in fact been delivered.

But get this: the confirmation CLEARLY states that the item was returned to the state that it came from! I tried to appeal saying look, it says it was delivered, but not to me, so what's going on? They never got back to me.

Lucky for me, the seller came back from vacation and straightened the situation out as best as he could... I was out $16 on shipping, but it's better than losing on the entire sum.

Bottom line: ebay does not always take the side of the seller. They always take the wrong side.
 
Meh, not ebays fault. When sending outside the USA Ship express mail with Insurance and you are good. No one wants to pay for it? Thats cool, dont ship abroad and problem solved.

I shipped a sheath to russia a cpl months ago that I sold on ebay. When the buyer got it he called me a liar and demanded I refund him because I didnt include the knife with his $18 hand made in the USA sheath :rolleyes: He tried disputing it but paypal denied him as it took over 45 days for him to file. Still waiting on my perfect 100% rating to be shite on by this moron. Never understood why someone would buy something without knowing what it is they are buying. Needless to say this moron ruined it for all the other good russians Ive shipped to in the past.

Also had another buyer try and pull a credit card chargeback so paypal froze the $. Paypal asked for proof of shipment, I provided, and they gave me the $ back.

Besides for the $700 in fees ebay got from me last month I think they are pretty ok in my book :thumbup:

THG said:
They always take the wrong side.
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Nope.
 
I am done with them too. Listed my wives old blackberry a couple weeks ago. Even though I had USA shipping only I had people from Mexico,Columbia,Ireland and Venezuela bidding on it. Some guy from Venezuela won it,no feedback and a ebay member sense 2007 and a shipping address to some shipping company in Miami. He never paid and it took over a week to get the case closed and get a credit on the seller fee that was 10%. Was going to relist it but a note popped up saying I had to add a secondary account to cover the buyer protection on the item,NO THANKS! Just to big of a hassle anymore.
 
u812 said:
I am done with them too. Listed my wives old blackberry a couple weeks ago. Even though I had USA shipping only I had people from Mexico,Columbia,Ireland and Venezuela bidding on it. Some guy from Venezuela won it,no feedback and a ebay member sense 2007 and a shipping address to some shipping company in Miami. He never paid and it took over a week to get the case closed and get a credit on the seller fee that was 10%. Was going to relist it but a note popped up saying I had to add a secondary account to cover the buyer protection on the item,NO THANKS! Just to big of a hassle anymore.
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How is that Fleabays fault when you want take 2 minutes and update your site preferences?? Go to your Account Settings-->Site Preferences-->Shipping Preferences-->Show-->Exclude shipping locations from your listings-->Show-->Select the regions or countries you don't(Want To)ship to.

All those countries you are complaining about are listed right their.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We have a lot of stickies here on FEEDBACK, including those addressing proper shipping. Read, and be protected.

Mailing Security
Registered Insured Mail
the same mistakes are made over & over

Pick your buyer carefully. Package your item properly. Use a secure shipping method. PayPal will back you or your shipper's insurance will cover you.
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This should be the standard reply to anyone who thinks they got screwed by Ebay/Paypal.

Not trying to be insulting, but I usually only have to read to the 3rd or 4th sentence before the facepalm.
 
ToxicBot11 said:
How is that Fleabays fault when you want take 2 minutes and update your site preferences?? Go to your Account Settings-->Site Preferences-->Shipping Preferences-->Show-->Exclude shipping locations from your listings-->Show-->Select the regions or countries you don't(Want To)ship to.

All those countries you are complaining about are listed right their.
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Well I didn't know that at the time as when I listed the phone it gave me the option not to ship outside the US.
After all the trouble and talking with them on the phone I did go in a change it.
 
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