New Benchmade 111H2O: A big ol' pile of fail.

[spoonrobot]

Before I get to my personal opinion here's what was wrong out of the box.

• Left side scale did not line up properly with the liner; making it almost impossible to switch over the pocket clip. Took me about 15 minutes of loosening the various scale screws to get it to work.
• Pocket clip is bent so tight that it is almost impossible to lift it from the scales with a fingernail, never mind actually trying to insert in into the pocket.
• The edge is one of the worst I've ever seen on a production knife. It is obtuse, very roughly finished and not all that sharp.

Next up; design flaws.

• The bi-directional scale pattern is such that when inserting or removing to or from the pocket the pattern creates severe resistance making the task extremely difficult. Combine this with the extreme tension and pocket clip use is a no-go.
• The bi-directional scale pattern pulls off a very difficult feat. It is painful to use without adding grip security.
• Thumbstuds are polished smooth, combine this with the shallow relief cut and it makes opening very difficult. Even with clean and dry hands.

Disregarding all of the above, my opinion? I think the concept is excellent. This is a beefy, heavy duty knife with an eye towards corrosion resistance; something we really haven't seen before. The pivot, stop pin and blade are all very thick and look to be extremely durable. The steel hardware is all polished nicely and it appears to all be very corrosion resistant.

But, the execution falls flat on it's face. Poor handle design and opening mechanics destroy the potential for waterborne use this knife was designed for. The pocket clip and handle interface is broken and the build quality is less than desirable. I want to like this knife so badly but I'm so very disappointed in it that I will most likely return it as soon as I can get the pocket clip back on the right side.

Of note is the increased Axis tension. The system has a lot more spring strength and takes more force to unlock as well as provides more closed tension than my Griptilians.

If you're planning on purchasing this knife it may be best to handle it in person first.

Here are some quick pictures, with my some suggestions. :foot:

Pocket clip/handle problems. There needs to be a smooth section for the clip to rest against.

The edge, the Griptilian is @40* inclusive sharpened with a Lansky. 111H2O looks to be closer to 60*.

Thumbstuds, could be longer and a lot less polished, the relief needs to be cut deeper.

Comparison:

 

[Esav Benyamin]

That's a shame, that they fell short on execution. It's a beautiful design and concept.
Hopefully, they'll tweak the next production run.

 

[myowngod]

Glad you posted this.. was planning on trying one out, but i guess I'll just go with a spydie salt instead..

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

This is basically a 950 Rift but with FRN scales and slightly different blade shape. I do not have that knife in my hand but:

From the pictures the scales look like they line up with the liners pretty good to me? Maybe your tweaking fixed this?

The tight clip can always be fixed. I usually remove the pocket clip and bend it so that it has the amount of retention I like.

The thumb stud is the same one that is on the Rift. I absolutely love the Rift and have zero problem with the thumb stud. It also appears to have the same amount of relief on the handle as the Rift does. Again, I have zero problems. A thumb stud should not be pushed away from the handle in a perpendicular direction. Thumb studs, and holes, work best when pushed upwards in the direction of the fully opened blade. When used like this a thumb stud doesn't need any handle relief.

The grind doesn't look that bad. It looks fairly coarse but very few knives come with a polished edge. Maybe that knife was sharpened with a brand new belt? The grind also looks similar to the Rift. The Rift has one of the best edge geometries I have seen and comes quite thin. Even with a 30 degree inclusive grind it looks very narrow (and obtuse) because the edge is so thin. The width of the grind looks similar to my new Rift which when I measured with a micrometer was about 37 inclusive. I don't know how thick the blade is. How did you come up with a 60 degree inclusive number? Do you have a micrometer? Also, unless that grip has been sharpened a lot and the blade is thicker I would say that looks less than 40 degrees. I also have a lansky and depending on where the blade is clamped and how you hold the stone it can vary quite a bit. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but going on those pictures and my experience it looks less than 40 degrees. A micrometer and some trig can yield pretty accurate edge angle measurements.

Anyways, that stinks you aren't happy with it. I plan to pick one up at some point so hopefully they will sort out any issues. I also hope everything is fairly rust proof because I swim in the salt water quite a bit in the summer and a knife can rust by the time you get out of the water sometimes. I don't have one yet but just thought I would try to point some things out. I'm not trying to butt heads or be a fan boy. I was hoping to hear something better about it.

 

[spoonrobot]

The tweaking didn't fix it. It looks like the pivot hole in the mold was off by a few thousands of an inch. In order to install the pocket clip I needed to remove the scale, then rotate it out from the handle and then install one clip screw and then rotate the handle scale back into position and snap it fairly aggressively into place. Then I had to force the screws towards the pivot in order for them to be able to engage the threads. Looking through the holes in the scale you can see where the mismatch occurs, some measurement of the scale is off. After trying to get the clip back on the right side it looks like both sides are off. Since I don't want to completely remove the pivot to switch back the pocket I'll have to return it as is.

I could bend the clip, I could also pot the clip/handle contact point and I could probably even drill into the grivory to fix the pocket clip hole alignment issue. But why would I want to do that? I bought a pocket knife from one of the premier knife manufacturers, not an erector set from Toy's R Us.

Looking at the few pictures I can find it looks like the relief between the Rift and 111H2O is different in both depth and length along the handle. The Rift also has a different finish on the stud, it appears to be some sort of dull black coating that most likely offers better purchase than the shiny studs. I know how thumbstuds work and this one does not work very well for the design intention of a water/dive knife.

The edge is bad. I cannot recall a production knife that had a worse grind. I have handled a lot of knives from a lot of companies and this is the worst. It's just plain not sharp. I got the angle by running the edge on a leather belt until it catches and then holding the angle with a small rotating hinge while I measure it with a protractor. It's not a CATRA laser test but it seems to work well enough and yields results that coincide with the angles on knives coming off my Sharpmaker.

I didn't mean that I sharpened the Grip on the 20* setting on the Lansky, I meant I sharpened it with a Lansky and then verified it to be at 40* inclusive.

And to cap it all off there appears to be a small spot of rust under the handle scale.

 

[redisburning]

that sucks bro, send it back and get yourself something you'll be happy with.

the folder having problems, well that sucks but that's fixable in the end. having a design that doesnt work for you, a shame really. IMO they shouldnt be using that split arrow clip AT ALL either.

 

[jay2pointoh]

Ive asked this question before but never got the answer. What is that marking on the handle of that griptillian. I have seen it on other grips but I just don't get it.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

What is wrong with the split arrow clip? I have a few and they work great.

And are you talking about the 2-14 that is written on the grip handle? Yeah I wondered that too.

That sucks that it's not up to your standards. Send it back and maybe they will get the bugs worked out soon. I know I am still going to get one for the summer months. I understand that the thumb stud doesn't work for you but I don't have a problem. My user Rift is basically silver but the finish that was originally on it was not rough. In fact on my M4 version I put a polished silver thumb stud that is perfectly round without the grooves and it works great for me. I put it on because it is longer and I have a project I am working on if I can make myself use the mill.

Hopefully this was a fluke and the next report we get on one will be a little better. The bidirectional grip isn't going to change but it sounds like most other things can be fixed with a little work. Thanks for the review and pics.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

good review, thx for posting.

the thumbstud definitely needs work. for a knife meant to be used in marine envorinments, it needs to be easy to open with gloves, wet/slippery hands, covered in fish guts, underwater, etc.

the texturing reminds me of a fish hook. goes in smoothly, then the barbs grab hold and you need pliers to get it out.

 

[Uz4u]

Ok i choked on my drink when I read the title of the thread. that was funny*

you would think somebody would've realized this stuff before they released the knife, not what you'd expect from benchmade

 

[JeremiahWeaver09]

i have one of the black ones, i though the one i received was pretty good, i havent really seen any problems with it and havent had problems clipping it to my pocket. i thought this knife would be popular here too, i figured many forum members would like the blade shape. yeah i also noticed the handle was the same shape as the rift handle, i like it. the thumbstuds are also fine for me, though i havent used them around water and dont plan on it. maybe the op got a lemon.

this knife looks like it would be great for sending to that talented krien fellow, there is a lot of blade to work with

 

[wongKI]

Perhaps you could try sanding down the area of the handle just under the clip. This'd eliminate some of the texturing and make it a bit better on the pocket, and you don't need the grip there as there's a clip in the way. As an example, Spyderco uses similarly textured FRN, but the clip rests on the relatively smooth Spyderco logo on the handle. I find this to be tight but not pants-killing.

Pity about the issues. The blade, as you say, is a fine concept.

 

[bearcut]

Nobody has asked the biggest question of all:

Are the Omega springs stainless? (Or at least alloyed or treated against corrosion)?

That is the weak link in an Axis water knife.

When the last Griptilian came out with the H1(?) steel, I wrote Benchmade and asked them if the Omega springs were any different than the regular ones. I got no response.
I see that they make no mention of this with the new model either. :thumbdn:
What good is a folder with corrosion resistant hardware and blade if it still has the same old springs?

Once again, BM could have offered a viable alternative to the Spyderco Salt series. For some reason they feel compelled not to.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Ok i choked on my drink when I read the title of the thread. that was funny*

Me too! This, however, was priceless:

• The bi-directional scale pattern pulls off a very difficult feat. It is painful to use without adding grip security.

Once again, BM could have offered a viable alternative to the Spyderco Salt series. For some reason they feel compelled not to.

Ding, ding ding! I also mentioned in a previous thread about this knife that I thought it was strange they picked a new steel (N680), with even more carbon than X15TN, for their new H2O folder.

It looks like the pivot hole in the mold was off by a few thousands of an inch.

But, Benchmade claims their tolerances are.........

 

[3Guardsmen]

Ive asked this question before but never got the answer. What is that marking on the handle of that griptillian. I have seen it on other grips but I just don't get it.

Maybe Benchmade is following in the footsteps of Trijicon, and it's scripture related (John 2:14, "In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.")?

 

[spoonrobot]

The 2-14 marking on the Grips is just a Sharpie marking to identify them as my personal knives. Sometimes at work things can grow legs and just wander off into someone else's pocket.

bearcut, I don't have any definite data on the springs but they do look different than the springs on my Grips. They're a very light tan/gold color, almost like a mild Ti-Ni coating or some other surface treatment.

 

[gundude73]

yeah i have had similar problems with my benchmades, that is why i go spyderco
IMO the knife should work out of the box, and this does not, a 60 degree inclusive angle? 0_0 dang that is FAT, add the texturing fail and the thumbstud fail, and i have wondered if the flimsy omega springs were rust resistant like the steel, if not then why even bother making this design?

 

[spoonrobot]

Here are some in hand pics to give a better idea of the size and massive blade:

 

[mmarkh]

I knew from the beginning of this thread the fanboys would be bashing Benchmade.

 

[Apec]

Is it possible to loosen the pivot to the point where the blade can be flicked open without any blade play?