New Blade Sharpness? - CAK

[Carolina River Rat]

Does anyone know where to get the really fine stuff (400 grit and on up) cheaper than Napa or similar auto parts stores? I haven't been able to find it at any local hardware stores or on line. I'm sure I'm just not looking in the right place.

 

[GregS]

Does anyone know where to get the really fine stuff (400 grit and on up) cheaper than Napa or similar auto parts stores? I haven't been able to find it at any local hardware stores or on line. I'm sure I'm just not looking in the right place.

Here you go... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=42500
A great company, I buy my sanding belts from them.:thumbup:

 

[Carolina River Rat]

Sweet. Thanks, Greg.

 

[Ugly Duck]

Here you go... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=42500
A great company, I buy my sanding belts from them.:thumbup:

Thats who I get my sandpaper from. Their wet/dry 5,000 & 9,000 grit is secured to plastic film... lasts a good long time. Over a buck per sheet, but puts a serious polish on the egde.

Here's a 32X closeup up what we are dealing with when we get a polished HI blade: http://www.zknives.com/cpg14/displayimage.php?pid=1104&fullsize=1 .

Comes plenty sharp for chopping wood, but if you want to get it really sharp, you gotta wear down through the grind marks left at the very edge. Thats what you see reflecting light. Its no big deal, takes work but its a labor of love for most. These are handmade blades made by masters, but we still put our own "signature" on the final edge.

 

[Svashtar]

That's why a lot of guys prefer Villagers for users. They haven't been polished so the edge hasn't been rounded off by the buffer, and they already have the satin finish you'll probably end up with if you use it at all, because you'll need to polish out the scuffs with a scotch-brite pad and oil. Plus the satin finish works a bit better for holding oil on the blade anyway.

The only one (and this is 2 year old data so please correct me if I'm wrong) that seems to consistently reapply the nice edge to his knives after polishing is the good Sgt.

Yvsa patiently showed me in person how to apply a good edge using hones to a dull knife at the 2005 SWKK (I still have my Cherokee Rose personally sharpened by him; now a big Scagel razor. :thumbup and that was very instructive. And that was not using a mousepad and sandpaper, but a stiff diamond hone.

You can do it a bunch of ways, and there are sharpening threads galore, but I finally went power and haven't gone back. I started with a little 1X42 Kalamazoo grinder (I hope for a 2X72 someday, but at this rate it may be a few years), and it does a great job. I can put a sharp edge on any kukri, including rebuffing it, in just a few minutes now, after learning how.

My biggest error made early on was in taking a beautifully made and hardened early Bura Hanshee (made back before he had his unfortunate stroke), and putting a great edge on it, but in not lifting it to prevent the point from being rounded. I went to work with a file and managed to get most of it back, but it was a stupid mistake I'll never make again.

Norm

 

[C.S. Graves]

Here you go... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=42500
A great company, I buy my sanding belts from them.:thumbup:

I'm lucky that local hardware stores have wet/dry up to about 1200 grit, but I do get sharpening belts from Lee Valley too, among miscellaneous odd stuff. I've found that for REALLY dull stuff though, I can get away with lower grit sanding belts bought locally, and use the specialized ones for finer grinds or aesthetic purposes.

My biggest error made early on was in taking a beautifully made and hardened early Bura Hanshee (made back before he had his unfortunate stroke), and putting a great edge on it, but in not lifting it to prevent the point from being rounded. I went to work with a file and managed to get most of it back, but it was a stupid mistake I'll never make again.

Ouch! Out of curiosity, what's your current technique with regards to sharpening tips? Or do you just avoid them? I know I've rounded several in my days at the grinder.

 

[Svashtar]

I'm lucky that local hardware stores have wet/dry up to about 1200 grit, but I do get sharpening belts from Lee Valley too, among miscellaneous odd stuff. I've found that for REALLY dull stuff though, I can get away with lower grit sanding belts bought locally, and use the specialized ones for finer grinds or aesthetic purposes.

OSH out here has up to 1500 grit paper readily available. On the belts I tend to use 120 grit as the heaviest grit, and then let it grind down as it gets used, so I'm probably at close to 180 or 200 when it's worn. It still does the job and there's less chance of taking it too far.

Also I can use the same belt to free hand turn the pommel edges down (if needed) without scuffing the wood or horn of the handle. Turns out nice.

Ouch! Out of curiosity, what's your current technique with regards to sharpening tips? Or do you just avoid them? I know I've rounded several in my days at the grinder.

I take the blade edge at about a 20-25 degree angle (depends on the knife) under pressure right up to the tip, then take off most of the pressure, lift the handle and just kiss the tip with the belt. Back and forth on that last 3/8" as needed. Then repeat for the other side. My mistake on that blade was in not lifting the handle as much.

Of course I couldn't have this learned on a beater villager or something, but had to be taught on a perfect Shop 2 Hanshee. :grumpy:

This approach will obviously be harder when it's a straight sword, or longer kukri like a 25" chit or Sirupate or something.

I don't ignore it, but the tip will subsequently never be quite as sharp as the rest of the blade, but that's fine with me. I don't chop with the tip directly, and I don't want it to be so thin that it will turn if I hit a knot or something hard.

Norm

 

[C.S. Graves]

I don't ignore it, but the tip will subsequently never be quite as sharp as the rest of the blade, but that's fine with me.

I guess it's just one of those inevitably things that the tip can stay intact in less than shaving sharpness, or get sharp and rounded over. Ah well! I'll give that a try next time I go to the grinder, see if I can get the gist of it.

 

[Ugly Duck]

I guess it's just one of those inevitably things that the tip can stay intact in less than shaving sharpness, or get sharp and rounded over. Ah well! I'll give that a try next time I go to the grinder, see if I can get the gist of it.

Haven't tried this with a khukri yet.... but I get around the problem by leaving the tip alone when using the belt grinder and then going back & doing the tip by hand after the rest of the blade is sharp. Takes some time, but you have enough control to keep the tip from getting rounded.

PS: Saw in your blog the comment on F. Murray Abraham's portrayal of Salieri in Amadeus. Its also one of my favs... one of the great cinematic performances of all time, IMO.

 

[C.S. Graves]

PS: Saw in your blog the comment on F. Murray Abraham's portrayal of Salieri in Amadeus. Its also one of my favs... one of the great cinematic performances of all time, IMO.

:thumbup:

Almost forgot about that. If Salieri had been born a kami, no doubt he'd be wringing his hands in envy of Bura.

 

[wildmike]

My Bura made M-43 was my first HI, it came with a good utility edge. It took me a couple hours to get it to razor sharp plus which is where I keep it. My R-10 wasn't quite as sharp and had a couple floors on it. It took a few hours work with a diamond hone then paper and strop but it is now sportind a very sharp scandi edge. Same with the rest of my HI's I usualy have to do some edge work to get them where I want them but after that they hold an edge great and are easy to both maintain and sharpen.

 

[Carolina River Rat]

There's two spots on my M43 that I can't seem to get a decent edge on. Right above the cho and right above the sweet spot about an inch and half from the tip.

 

[Billy516]

Is it customary for the edge directly above the cho to be completely unsharpened for about the next inch or so? BTW, I have worked up to 800 grit on my BGRS and it is now push cutting copy paper and thicker newsprint and sliced up a green pepper very nicely last night, so it's got more than an acceptable edge for chopping at this point. I just want it stupid sharp now!

 

[Ugly Duck]

If Salieri had been born a kami, no doubt he'd be wringing his hands in envy of Bura.

Classic!

 

[Yvsa]

There's two spots on my M43 that I can't seem to get a decent edge on. Right above the cho and right above the sweet spot about an inch and half from the tip.

C.R. Rat I don't know what your problem may be that these areas won't get as sharp as the sweet spot for you as I've never had any problems with them. Helluvit is I'd have to watch you sharpen a kukri in order to say and there's a good possibility I still couldn't say. Trouble is almost anyone with any sharpening skills at all can sharpen an old table knife to shaving sharp, although it won't stay sharp long.
And so goes the dilemma of the world of knife aficionados everywhere.

But methinks y'all are maybe struggling too much with all this.

Like I told Norm at the SWKK in '05, "If you give a kid a knife and a sharpening device he will automatically put a convex edge on it." That is if he hasn't had his head filled with all the different sorts of edges and grinds.
It's really not all that complicated ----- under those circumstances, one of the inherent problems of being edumacated.

One of the best - and cheapest - ways of learning to sharpen knives of all sorts on a belt sander is to first.... get a belt sander..... and two a bucketful of old cheap kitchen or butter knives and go to town on them.
One of the first things to learn is to raise the butt end of the knife a lot further back than what you first thought in order to *Not* round the points off!
And you have to do the same with any hand held sharpening device.
Having never used a Sharpmaker or any of the other sharpening devices I can't say about them. However I do seem to recall reading something about someone rounding their knife point off using one of those devices although I can't recall which one.



.

 

[Carolina River Rat]

C.R. Rat I don't know what your problem may be that these areas won't get as sharp as the sweet spot for you as I've never had any problems with them. Helluvit is I'd have to watch you sharpen a kukri in order to say and there's a good possibility I still couldn't say. Trouble is almost anyone with any sharpening skills at all can sharpen an old table knife to shaving sharp, although it won't stay sharp long.
And so goes the dilemma of the world of knife aficionados everywhere.

But methinks y'all are maybe struggling too much with all this.

Like I told Norm at the SWKK in '05, "If you give a kid a knife and a sharpening device he will automatically put a convex edge on it." That is if he hasn't had his head filled with all the different sorts of edges and grinds.
It's really not all that complicated ----- under those circumstances, one of the inherent problems of being edumacated.

One of the best - and cheapest - ways of learning to sharpen knives of all sorts on a belt sander is to first.... get a belt sander..... and two a bucketful of old cheap kitchen or butter knives and go to town on them.
One of the first things to learn is to raise the butt end of the knife a lot further back than what you first thought in order to *Not* round the points off!
And you have to do the same with any hand held sharpening device.
Having never used a Sharpmaker or any of the other sharpening devices I can't say about them. However I do seem to recall reading something about someone rounding their knife point off using one of those devices although I can't recall which one.



.

Thanks Yvsa. I don't currently have a belt sander, but I plan on getting one. I believe I remember you recommending Harbor Freight to another forumite? Belt sanders not being very portable, what would you recommend for sharpening on say, a backpacking or kayaking trip?

 

[starboard]

My Chiruwa Ak was blunt when I got it. After a looooong time on the belt sander its very sharp in spots while other areas still reflect light along the edge. I was/am disappointed, as it is a gift for a friend and instead of handing him an untouched Khukri I had to reprofile the blade. As my first Khukri I have to say... I'm not impressed. They have such a great warranty and story behind them, I think Yangdu could charge double what she is if more attention to detail was given to fit, finish and especially the edge.

It's nice that you did this for your friend. Now the gift entails more than just making a website purchase, and is all the better thereby.

I think that setting the edge to your own requirements is a foregone conclusion, the first of many iterations over the lifetime of the knife, so I don't see it as a big deal.

 

[Ugly Duck]

OK... I just ordered some 1"x30" belts from Lee Valley for my Harbor Freight:

2 180 grit Aluminum Oxide grinding belts
3 320 grit Aluminum Oxide grinding belts
3 500 grit Aluminum Oxide grinding belts
3 1200 grit Aluminum Oxide grinding belts
3 15 micron grit Silicon Carbide grinding belts
1 Leather Honing belt

Here's an informative thread from that other forum about convex sharpening: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/776367/

 

[GregS]

It's nice that you did this for your friend. Now the gift entails more than just making a website purchase, and is all the better thereby.

I think that setting the edge to your own requirements is a foregone conclusion, the first of many iterations over the lifetime of the knife, so I don't see it as a big deal.

I appreciate your input and find it to be very insightful. Its not a big deal, but it still bothered me... I was going to touch up the edge before giving it to him, regardless of how sharp it was when I got it. Mainly to get a feel for the steel and be able to give him feedback on how to sharpen it. I just wasn't expecting to spend almost an hour's time, and use up two belts to get it "working blade" sharp, which IMO is no reflection from the edge and being able to cut standing xerox paper (not newsprint, and no shaving) cleanly. I'm almost there, it still needs some work but its plenty sharp for chopping/splitting wood, and its plenty sharp for a newbie like him. So the edge sucked out of the box, ok... I fixed it, if it performs well and holds its edge than I a can overlook the lousiness of its initial sharpness, and move on. It should see some heavy use this Saturday, I hope it holds up well. I hope to post pictures. And one of these days I have to do a chop off with his Chiruwa AK and my Banned FFBM, I anticipate interesting results... and some hurt feelings... possibly on my end.

 

[Svashtar]

Thanks Yvsa. I don't currently have a belt sander, but I plan on getting one. I believe I remember you recommending Harbor Freight to another forumite? Belt sanders not being very portable, what would you recommend for sharpening on say, a backpacking or kayaking trip?

You can touch up a convex edge fine with the careful application of a diamond hone. Just sharpen until you get a burr on one side, then flip and do the other side. Remember you need to roll it a bit as you're trying to reform the convex, or appleseed cross section edge. It's just easier to get a pure convex edge with a sandpaper/mousepad or slack belt grinder. Also with a non-flexible hone there will be some feathering on the blade, but it's not too bad if you're careful.

Ken Warner suggests using a double folded peice of cardboard to touch up your convex edge, and it really works! Not if it's super dull, but it works fine on an edge that just needs to be brought back a bit.

Norm