New Cooper Cutlery knives?

ea42 said:
The Olbertz era German made Battle Axe Conqueror and the Cooper version are pretty much identical right down to the etches. The only discernible differences are the shields pins (the Cooper ones are spun on so you see a head in the shield) and the swedge, present on the German made knives and AWOL on the Coopers. I believe Blue Grass Cutlery did collaborations on that knife with Olbertz as well which is probably the tie-in with Cooper.

The one on the Express site is definitely the newer version. Same swedge-less blade and funky shield pin.

Eric
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If thats so, how is it that the German knives are identical to the knives that are supposedly made by Cooper in Ohio?
The trappers were identical to the Olbertz made pattern, I'd bet that this coke bottle hunter is made by Olbertz. Its named the "German Hunter".....but its an American pattern thats been produced by American makers for over 100 years....and Olbertz make contract knives for a lot of different knife brands.
 
Arathol said:
Its not a 1970s knife, its a modern knife mis-identified as being old.
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I appreciate the more detailed info - however, the pic I provided is from A.G. Russell's site for selling pre-owned knives (the subject knife having long been sold). Are you saying that they misidentified that knife? If so, what date would you put to it?

If we are really going to get into the weeds, I suppose I can dredge up other examples and forums where similar subject knives are discussed and identified as being from the same decades.

I agree that it's a pattern (one I am quite familiar with) that has been around awhile (including some of the uniquely German/European asymmetrical versions of it) but I contend in this case that it's being copied by Cooper Cutlery and/or whatever Chinese OEM manufacturer that is spitting them out.
 
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Arathol said:
If thats so, how is it that the German knives are identical to the knives that are supposedly made by Cooper in Ohio?
The trappers were identical to the Olbertz made pattern, I'd bet that this coke bottle hunter is made by Olbertz. Its named the "German Hunter".....but its an American pattern thats been produced by American makers for over 100 years....and Olbertz make contract knives for a lot of different knife brands.
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I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, that's why I was pointing out how similar they are save for the swedge and shield pin. They even have the same oddly placed spring pin that sits just in front of the rear cap. That's definitely not something you see on the old American versions. The pictured German made knife looks like a Shouse and Hardin Battle Axe which I believe was made by Olbertz in the late-ish seventies or thereabouts.
It's possible that Cooper wound up with the exact specs and templates as well as the etch templates that Olbertz used and was able to copy them exactly but I've got some doubts that they could have pulled it off, at least as far as parts production goes. Who knows, they're not all that forthcoming with info.
 
meako said:
Could it be that wily Coopers are targeting the lucrative Chinese collectors of traditional pocketknives market?
I bet no ones thought of that yet have they.
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Indeed! I’ve heard that there’s R&R Collector Club where you can find their most popular knives at double the original price. My god! Before you know it GEC will be filling for bankruptcy! 🤯😜
 
Coyja said:
I can't stand when businesses ape being made in the USA for performative credibility. Its an immediate ban for me after that.
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Exactly how I feel. I honestly don't care where a knife is made, but any dishonesty immediately makes me :mad:

Really enjoying this thread. I actually went to Cooper's website to ask a question a few days ago, in which I specifically asked what parts were imported, along with exactly what denomination of 440 Stainless Steel they are using. The crickets have been chirping pretty loudly!

For the record, I'm not a steel snob.... I have many European blades forged in 440A that I wouldn't trade for the world. I just think it's suspicious when the exact steel used is shrouded in secrecy. 440 by itself means nothing.
 
ea42 said:
It's possible that Cooper wound up with the exact specs and templates as well as the etch templates that Olbertz used and was able to copy them exactly but I've got some doubts that they could have pulled it off, at least as far as parts production goes. Who knows, they're not all that forthcoming with info.
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Olbertz is known for making contact knives at whatever price point the customer wants. If the means cutting corners like poorly made shields or not grinding in a swedge, that thats how its made. I'm also doubting that these are USA made knives. Can 4 guys do all this?
 
Arathol said:
I'm also doubting that these are USA made knives. Can 4 guys do all this?
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You can accomplish anything when you have matching t-shirts and overalls. 😉🤣

gq7bqMw.jpg
 
btb01 said:
You can accomplish anything when you have matching t-shirts and overalls. 😉🤣
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Suspiciously clean overalls, at that...🤔



Seriously, I don't have enough info to make accusations, but it does feel like a mystery. If these are made by Olbertz, why not say so? German made knives can fetch the same price point as USA.
 
btb01 said:
You can accomplish anything when you have matching t-shirts and overalls. 😉🤣

gq7bqMw.jpg
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This photo is so obviously staged, it bothers me. Reminds me of the complete opposite of a Spanish traditional knife maker who has a series of videos showing him making a knife in coveralls that are nearly rags.

I can't help but cry foul of their over the top 'Made in USA' when it's coupled with all of the other red flags
 
draggat said:
Exactly how I feel. I honestly don't care where a knife is made, but any dishonesty immediately makes me :mad:

Really enjoying this thread. I actually went to Cooper's website to ask a question a few days ago, in which I specifically asked what parts were imported, along with exactly what denomination of 440 Stainless Steel they are using. The crickets have been chirping pretty loudly!
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100%. Just be up front! I won't touch a brand that pulls this sort of crap.

Your experience, asking Cooper a question and getting radio silence, stands in stark contrast to a similar question I recently asked Demko Knives. I wanted to understand which AD20 knives were fully made in the USA, and I got a response from John Demko in under 24 hours with a full breakdown; that's the way to do it. :thumbsup:

I'm just some rando on the internet, but at this point there's too many unanswered questions around Cooper and this mystery Battle Axe Trapper for something not to be up. Like De Niro says in Ronin, "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
 
draggat said:
This photo is so obviously staged, it bothers me. Reminds me of the complete opposite of a Spanish traditional knife maker who has a series of videos showing him making a knife in coveralls that are nearly rags.

I can't help but cry foul of their over the top 'Made in USA' when it's coupled with all of the other red flags
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To be fair, there’s a good chance that these were staged before production began. But the sentiment remains the same, I don’t see how a maker could think it’s a good look
 
JohnDF said:
He wasn't sayig you did anything wrong. He was simply saying that someone should take one of the Chinese knives to Cooper and ask him if it's "one of his" or a "counterfeit".
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Now I got it.
Pàdruig said:
perhaps they are simply recreating an apparent classic?
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I would seriously doubt that. From my experience, when they make a knife from scratch, they just copy something from somewhere and then a mix (or mess) comes out. They simply don't have no interest in careful recreating of someone's classic.
 
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