New Cooper Cutlery knives?

the stats on these are hilarious tho, its essentially almost the size of a grand daddy barlow which makes it very impractical for me. but id be curious to see how they are in hand. id probably wait to having seen one in person before buying tho, if it ever made the list.
 
I just watched a YouTube review of one of the Conqueror knives, and the back of the tube says "Made in the USA from domestic and imported materials." The reviewer also wasn't keen on the quality.

Getting a box of knife parts from China, using some components made in house, and assembling them in the USA also seems like a possibility. It would explain cost savings, a shop in China now selling the same knife, and the poor quality of the end product.
 
Saw a new "premium line" from them. Seems like higher quality, at least from the pics. Also, they come with a certificate that states they were made in the U.S. with the old Queen machinery. Maybe differentiating a difference between the U.S.made knives and the ones being produced overseas?
 
i suppose its like the requirements for "swiss made watches" x% must be completed in Switzerland/or its parts there in, to qualify.
 
mrknife said:
i suppose its like the requirements for "swiss made watches" x% must be completed in Switzerland/or its parts there in, to qualify.
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Yep, assuming they're doing it right. Here's the FTC's explanation of a qualified Made in the USA claim, which is what's on the tube for the Conqueror:
www.ftc.gov

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Introduction Basic Information About Made In USA Claims The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims Qualified Claims Comparative Claims The FTC and The Customs Service Other Statutes What To Do About Violations Introduction The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Beyond that point lay murky waters -- like what Quartermaster (QTRMSTR) and Hoback were doing. I find Cooper's rah-rah USA-USA marketing in poor taste, given the qualified claim, but if everything's above-board then that claim is in compliance with the law.

Having an OEM in China make the knife and then putting that qualified Made in the USA claim on the tube would be an entirely different story.
 
knifeswapper said:
Really all that needs to be done to knock the rumor in the head is to present a Cooper marked knife and have them declare it their product or a counterfeit.
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I don't really get what you are trying to say. I just saw the thing and decided to share. I thought people might want to know about such things. I never accused anyone in anything, moreover, I specifically noted that it doesn't mean anything for sure yet. Do you think that I should not have posted it, Mike?
 
Dadpool said:
Yep, assuming they're doing it right. Here's the FTC's explanation of a qualified Made in the USA claim, which is what's on the tube for the Conqueror:
www.ftc.gov

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Introduction Basic Information About Made In USA Claims The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims Qualified Claims Comparative Claims The FTC and The Customs Service Other Statutes What To Do About Violations Introduction The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Beyond that point lay murky waters -- like what Quartermaster (QTRMSTR) and Hoback were doing. I find Cooper's rah-rah USA-USA marketing in poor taste, given the qualified claim, but if everything's above-board then that claim is in compliance with the law.

Having an OEM in China make the knife and then putting that qualified Made in the USA claim on the tube would be an entirely different story.
Click to expand...
Or...you can be even be trickier like iPhones, "Designed in California, assembled in China" when much of the phone parts are sourced from all over the world 😆

That way you're not claiming where it is made at all.
 
The vendors on the Chinese sites are usually just buying them from a factory that may/may not be an OEM manufacturer for someone in the States, but usually are.
Chinese flippers are quite savvy, it makes no sense to me that they would single out a start up company with questionable QC like Cooper and choose THAT brand to counterfeit, not when they are actively counterfeiting other much more prominent brands and GEC exists.

For that knife to show up there in that level of identical state says to me that at least this model must be made overseas.
It doesn't make a lot of sense for Chinese vendors to think they could get $80 out of a counterfeit slip joint, not when Rough Ryder is already there, unless they know thats what these exact models go for here already and this is an OEM piece.

Possibly some portion of the process (sharpening, lol?) is happening here, or all the pieces are sent and then assembled, but this is super sketchy.
I can't stand when businesses ape being made in the USA for performative credibility. Its an immediate ban for me after that.
 
mbkr said:
Alex.Y. Alex.Y. have you considered sending the Chinese link to Cooper Cutlery? Their response might be worthwhile.
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I haven't named the seller in public for a reason. Don't get me wrong, but I don't want that website to know that I am involved in case Cooper starts something. The express is a good (and many times the only) source of spare parts (especially for old technics) and other miscellaneous things, and I don't want to be banned there. Or find some unwanted/illegal stuff in my mail sent to me as a revenge.
 
The knife in questions looks like an old German folding hunter design. Battle Axe brand existed before Cooper bought the name, did it not? If I recall correctly, they were made in the same factory as the old Fighting Rooster and Bulldog knives in Germany during the '70s(ish). It's a pretty old brand that dates back even earlier but the ones most folks are familiar with are of the '70s-'90s vintage. I think the brand has changed hands a number of times and like some of those old German brands, were getting made in China at some point as well.

Doesn't answer the question as to why Cooper's example is near identical to the Chinese offering but perhaps they are simply recreating an apparent classic?
 
For further context: This is a '70s-'80s vintage Battle Axe Brand knife (German-made).

(not my pic)

xu3Dfod.jpg
 
Pàdruig said:
The knife in questions looks like an old German folding hunter design. Battle Axe brand existed before Cooper bought the name, did it not? If I recall correctly, they were made in the same factory as the old Fighting Rooster and Bulldog knives in Germany during the '70s(ish). It's a pretty old brand that dates back even earlier but the ones most folks are familiar with are of the '70s-'90s vintage. I think the brand has changed hands a number of times and like some of those old German brands, were getting made in China at some point as well.

Doesn't answer the question as to why Cooper's example is near identical to the Chinese offering but perhaps they are simply recreating an apparent classic?
Click to expand...
Its a coke bottle folding hunter pattern. Case made a similar knife, as did Queen, S&M and many others.
Battle Axe originally was used about 100 years ago by A.R. Justice, a hardware whole sale company in Philadelphia PA.
Later, it was used from the 1970s up until 1990 on contract knives made by Olbertz for JW Hickey and Sons. At least one of the people involved in that iteration was later a principle in Blue Grass Cutlery, which is in turn linked to Queen.
This isn't the first Cooper knife that looks like it was made by Olbertz. I posted earlier in this thread (post #67) about the similarity between the Cooper trapper pattern and the Olbertz / Bulldog trapper.
Isn't that picture a Cooper made knife? Yeah, I know its a used knife thats been offered for sale, but even the etching is identical.....Its not a 1970s knife, its a modern knife mis-identified as being old.
IhBG3vg.png
 
The Olbertz era German made Battle Axe Conqueror and the Cooper version are pretty much identical right down to the etches. The only discernible differences are the shields pins (the Cooper ones are spun on so you see a head in the shield) and the swedge, present on the German made knives and AWOL on the Coopers. I believe Blue Grass Cutlery did collaborations on that knife with Olbertz as well which is probably the tie-in with Cooper.

The one on the Express site is definitely the newer version. Same swedge-less blade and funky shield pin.

Eric
 
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