New Design

Joined
Jun 22, 1999
Messages
1,367
The new angled handle looks like a cross between my Battle Mistress and my T.O.P.S. Anaconda. It seems that this may be an ideal combo of steel and design IF it had a tanto point which I prefer. Are there any future plans for something like this?
 


Looking at the new design ... it looks like a knock-off of the Ron Hood/Jerry Busse model of the 'Hood'
Other than the different point treatment, they could be clones.
Any thoughts?

Mike


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No matter what you do, some things won't work out.
No matter what you do, some things will work out.
Worry about those things that you can make a difference with.
 
Uh oh
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WTF, since I'm not involved in the design (as I'm assuming you aren't) ... I prefer to have a answer from someone who KNOWS what the hell they are talking about. That's not either of us ... so I'll shut up.
Wonder if you can do the same?

Mike



------------------
No matter what you do, some things won't work out.
No matter what you do, some things will work out.
Worry about those things that you can make a difference with.
 
Jerry's designs are and have always been, original. Show me another knife which pre-dates any of Busse's over the past 17 years, which look just like Busse's. You won't find one. You'll bump into plenty however that look like Busse Combat's which came after the fact.

The suggestion of Busse Combat "knocking off" anyone's design is lame at best...they are under the scrutiny of every other high performance knifemaker in the industry, world wide...and targeted by them as well.
That unique position in the industry is not obtained by copycating anything.

Jerry's expertise has been sought by and generously given to, professionals from other fields, in order to create endorsed knife designs.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming demand and production issues at Busse Combat Knives over the past two years have financed the livelihood of other makers whose knives are engineered and designed to fill the orders of those not able to or not wanting to, wait for a Busse, which is a disappointment, but also a reality. It is also a testimony to that respective maker's distinct lack of vision.

This thread will be watched for volatility in my typical finger on the button fashion...
smile.gif
I can't change who I am.

Yours in originality and anxiety
biggrin.gif



------------------
Andy Prisco, Manager
Sharper Instinct, LLC
Phone: 1-201-493-2469
Orders-Toll Free: 1-877-557-5200
Fax: 1-201-493-2039
Visa & Mastercard Accepted

Authorized Dealers:
Busse Combat Knives and Big East Traditional Bows

Professional Shooting Svcs: Corporate Training and Stress Mgmt.

Busse Combat Variant Temp. HQ http://home.earthlink.net/~gregrnamin/andy/sharper.htm

Sharper Instinct Website www.sharperinstinct.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Prisco (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
I almost forgot...

Flatlander: no Tanto point is planned

Mike: The E handle is nothing like the Hood handle...especially due to the absence of that wonderful caribiner hole in the front talon in case you need to use your knife as a grappling hook...try "surviving" from a knife moving toward your person at a terminal velocity of 32 ft/sec. attached to a climbing rope because it didn't grab when you threw it
smile.gif
...seriously, I think the caribiner hole got nixed in the end...I just could'nt resist.
biggrin.gif


WTF: thanks for the heads up


------------------
Andy Prisco, Manager
Sharper Instinct, LLC
Phone: 1-201-493-2469
Orders-Toll Free: 1-877-557-5200
Fax: 1-201-493-2039
Visa & Mastercard Accepted

Authorized Dealers:
Busse Combat Knives and Big East Traditional Bows

Professional Shooting Svcs: Corporate Training and Stress Mgmt.

Busse Combat Variant Temp. HQ http://home.earthlink.net/~gregrnamin/andy/sharper.htm

Sharper Instinct Website www.sharperinstinct.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Prisco (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
Cult? I think not. What is going on is nothing but pure frustration with a company who makes promises on the delivery of items and doesn't follow thru. How many posts are there on this forum alone on that subject? BTW, even after the fiasco with the Hood, I still own 5 different Busse's. Fortunately I've found another maker to make the knife the Hood could have been. No, it's not INFI but I'll live and he's honest about delivery time.
 
Gee Andy you need to do some research. Since you are new to this issue and lack some background....

Years ago and far away....

Jerry and I faxed designs back and forth for several nights (I have the faxes) on the "Hood" about 6 months before his accident ( don't remember the date of the accident but six months is close, might have been nine). My first design, to make it simple, simply took the BM and dropped the blade angle, added a few rests and let her go.

Over the next few day I added a few wrinkles and changed the point design, slimmed the blade and adjusted the handle for comfort. The result was the "Hood" you see at my site.

At that time Jerry and I spoke almost nightly about his designs, history and much more. I was among the first people to know the full INFI process and I honored his request for secrecy. (As you should know but probably don't, I wrote the first evaluation of the Busse BM.) I also know that he said he had played with a lot of blade designs. Neither Jerry nor I invented the new blade angle. However, I was the one who sent him the information on human engineering which included design angles and the like. These studies were conducted at my University and elsewhere. The information was NOT from his surgeon or Physical Therapist it was the result of many notes, references, conversations, videos and I think, ultimately the incredible success of the Anaconda by TOPS. I worked with him on cutting angles, human articulation issues and more for over two years.

The Basics 9 was likewise a series of faxes that I traded with him. We were trying to build a new "Hood" in the Basics line and we came up with the Basics 9. That was the last I heard from him.

BTW during our conversations about the blade angle, Jerry SAID that it was not aesthetics that kept him from dropping the blade, it was materials. It cost more to drop the blade as you cut fewer blades from a sheet of steel.

I don't understand your idiocy related to a "grappling hook" or "Caribiner hole". The hole is too small for a caribiner and the knife was never intended to be used as a "Hook". You need to wake up a bit boy.

The purpose of the hole is to secure an aftermarket device I have not released. It is also used to hold a small snaplink that functions in a number of non ballistic ways in the wilderness. I won't bother to take time out to explain these functions.

I have no issues with Jerry other than Hoods Woods having to take calls from many of his irate customers. We still get four or five a week. It is always pretty much the same... "I sent in my money order and never heard from him.... it's been over nine months" or "I talked to him and he said 6-8 weeks. He charged my card and now it's been almost a year and I can't talk to him"

For my part I've left a half dozen messages for him and sent email. I've also gotten an infernal buzzing on his phone line when I tried to call.

The ownership of a design is not an issue Andy... All blade designs have ancestors. Customer service and honesty are issues.

Hell, he had a contest to guess the secret content of INFI with a blade as the prize. Rob Simonich guessed, and won ..... he never got the knife.

Sound familiar?

Hey Andy... what's your function? Do you work for Jerry? Hopefully you aren't his PR guy. That would be a bad mistake.....

Jerry and I do not need to get into this in a public forum.

Ron


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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Ohhhh!
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Lot's of sour grapes here!
tongue.gif


This kind of thing often shows up when one party becomes successful and the other maybe less successful. Since I don't know first hand the history of what is being discussed, I can't comment on it. The only part of Ron's
diatribe that I can comment on is his statement about design. Some of that is true.

I have been interested in knives for over 45 years and I can tell you that nothing in Jerry's or any other modern knifemaker's knives has not been tried before. Sure, there are slight differences here and there, but there is only so much you can do with a piece of steel and still have it useful for it's intended purpose.

As far as execution of the design goes, I have to say that Jerry's work is as good or better then most in this price range.

------------------
Do not lead me for I will not follow.
Do not follow me for I will not lead.
Do not walk by my side either.
Just leave me the hell alone.

[This message has been edited by UffDa (edited 04-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by UffDa (edited 04-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by UffDa (edited 04-30-2000).]
 
"Diatribe: A prolonged discourse, a bitter and abusive speech or writing, Ironical or satirical criticism (Websters)"

I don't know which part of this definition you mean. What I meant to do was to examine a long history and head off some incorrect statements in a previous post. I dislike those sorts of inaccuracies.

There is little or no competition between Jerry and I so that has no bearing on the discussion at hand. We advertise for Jerry in many of our videos (we produce videos, not knives) and have sold many blades for him through the power of this advertising and through the demonstrations we provide in those videos. We believe in his product.
It is among the best on the market. However we cannot recommend that folks buy it unless they are willing to wait for a year.

I have used his blades around the world. There are photos of his blades being used to clean Caiman, deer, marmots and about everything else I kill to eat.

I have never complained about the quality of his product and continue to endorse it.

His customer service problems are legendary. You have no concept of the kinds and numbers of problems his service has caused us. We have had a guy (a lawyer) say he was going to sue us because Jerry didn't deliver as he said he would (he was a year out of his promise to that guy). Would you like that?

I understand how badly Jerry's injury set him back. I spoke with him almost daily trying to support he and his wife (I still remember the phone bills
wink.gif
). There were other shop related issues that I will not discuss as they are not germain to the discussion here. In general, Jerry got screwed.

How did this discussion get started? Partly as a joke and partly for those folks who think that the BMII is a knock off of the AC9. I think my post accurately represented the history of that.

No sour grapes.

Jerry can speak for himself on this.... Or he can call me, my phone works.

Ron



------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 


"I don't understand your idiocy ....."

Hmmm...That sounds abusive to me. Perhaps a better choice of words was indicated

"Hey Andy... what's your function? Do you work for Jerry? Hopefully you aren't his PR guy. That would be a bad mistake....."

This sounds rather insulting

"Jerry and I do not need to get into this in a public forum."

It looks like you already have.

[/B][/QUOTE]

 
Here is the Hood :

http://www.survival.com/img0.gif

the Anaconda :

http://www.survival.com/aac79.jpg

the new "E" design :

http://home.earthlink.net/~gregrnamin/andy/radpair.jpg

I have no knowledge of the design influences, but I would not even call the handles similar let alone copies of one another. There are distinct difference in all three and the only common feature is that they are slanted and this is a very common feature that has been around a very long time.

For glaring differences between the Hood and the new "E" model, look at the angles of the Talons, the extent of the swells and the overall curvature of the grip. Not to mention the change in the grip texturing (Diamond quilted Micarta) on the new "E" models. The Anaconda is not even remotely similar to the other two, look at the index finger cutout, the serrations along the spine of the grip, etc.

The new "E" model looks to be easily the more ergonomic and functional to me (depending on the width profile which I can't see).

-Cliff
 
so is the anaconda a knife that is designed by tops, or is the anaconda a knife that is produced by tops, but customized to dr. hoods specifications?
 
so is the anaconda a knife that is designed by tops, or is the anaconda a knife that is produced by tops, but customized to dr. hoods specifications?
 
TOPS makes it I am sure of that, and I think that Hood designed it. It looks to me to be based heavily on the Steel Eagle.

-Cliff
 
Ron,

Thanks for your contribution here at the Busse Forum...

I'll let Jerry speak to your comments directed toward him personally, design issues, and his company.

As for my idiocy and your desire to not get anything thing started here on the Busse Combat Forum...I feel confident the truth of the matter has already revealed itself to everyone reading this thread.

------------------
Andy Prisco, Manager
Sharper Instinct, LLC
Phone: 1-201-493-2469
Orders-Toll Free: 1-877-557-5200
Fax: 1-201-493-2039
Visa & Mastercard Accepted

Authorized Dealers:
Busse Combat Knives and Big East Traditional Bows

Professional Shooting Svcs: Corporate Training and Stress Mgmt.

Busse Combat Variant Temp. HQ http://home.earthlink.net/~gregrnamin/andy/sharper.htm

Sharper Instinct Website www.sharperinstinct.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Prisco (edited 04-30-2000).]
 
Thanks Andy,

The word is out and not just from our side. I'll step aside now and let you guys just play.

"The latest shipment of Busse knives have been produced with a leather sheath
instead of the original Kydex sheath. We feel these sheaths do not meet the
quality of the knife and, therefore, we will not be carrying the Busse knives until
different sheaths become available or the pricing drops to reflect the changes
made to the sheaths. Sorry."
www.nwcutlery.com/busse.html



------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Well, it's been a while since I've checked in on this forum and I'm happy to see we're all ingaged in an intelligent discussion here
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.

Don't worry, Andy, we can all see who the dick is here
smile.gif
. That I say saluting Doc Ron with a Scout sign and telling him telepathically to peel the banana
biggrin.gif
.

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You could put nacho cheese sauce on it...
 
Whoa now,

Just because Ron Hood has some gripes against management issues, let's not get childish. I have personally met neither Jerry nor Ron, but I gather that they are both top notch in their specific areas. Jerry makes incredible knives and Ron and his wife will be the only thing besides cockroaches that survive a nuclear war
wink.gif
Both Jerry and Ron have faults I am sure and their past relationship is their business. Let's not forget, however, that if Ron wanted to really be a grogan (term found on his website) he could stop endorsing Busse knives in his classes/videos/website/etc. He likes the product and I'm willing to bet that his excellent review of the Battle Mistress contributed to the current success the knife enjoys. As for Busse Knife Company's customer service problems, I have heard mixed reports. My extremely limited dealings have been favorable and it seems most folks know they will have to wait for the custom line. I also think the sheath change was a bad decision, and I agree that there should be different pricing for the two options. But, Jerry's company is in it's awkward teenage stage and they are changing, learning, and adapting. When it comes to character, I have been impressed with both men, and I hope whatever issues currently exist can be resolved. Now take that Battle Mistress and go kill some grubs for dinner.

Jeff
 
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