New Hollow Handle "Survival" Knife- What do you think?

I like the knife a lot, I love the sheath, I like pivoting straps as well and generally keep them buckled Behind the sheath, out of the way unless I'm getting on a fourwheeler or something.

Your handle design is plenty strong, onlu way it will probably give is to batoning and then it seems to me like the blade will snap at the tang rather than the handle fail, unless being .25" stops that.

Its a beautiful knife and wonderful design, go beat it up and see if your worried about that.

Maybe look into ways of keeping the tang soft from the ricasso back. differential treating.
 
Great looking knife. Would be cool if you could unwrap the handle to use as a fishing line.....
 
I agree with everyone's posts, you have thought out the design well.

The one thing I would change is to add a radiused finger choil in front of the guard, that way the user could "choke up" on the handle if needed.
Something like this.
 
Sam, just a thought, but you could offer it to the Knife Reviews and Testing subforum. They put knives through everyday type tests,. and with good reviews, you gain some strong publicity for future sales.
 
stvpourciau said:
I like the knife a lot, I love the sheath, I like pivoting straps as well and generally keep them buckled Behind the sheath, out of the way unless I'm getting on a fourwheeler or something.

Your handle design is plenty strong, onlu way it will probably give is to batoning and then it seems to me like the blade will snap at the tang rather than the handle fail, unless being .25" stops that.

Its a beautiful knife and wonderful design, go beat it up and see if your worried about that.

Maybe look into ways of keeping the tang soft from the ricasso back. differential treating.
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Thanks, stv. I appreciate the compliments about the sheath. I think I will continue testing it, and will probably put a video out at some point. And like you said, I did soften the tang a little bit with a torch before assembly. Some makers thread the tang, thread the handle, and screw them together and epoxy them. There are a lot of different ways to do it. I think the main thing to remember is that if you get a good, tight press fit of the blade tang into the handle, the epoxy, or silver solder or pin is extra insurance. Randall solders the guard to the blade, and the handle to the guard, pours in some epoxy, and that's it. I've never even heard of a broken Model 18. It may have happened, but I've never seen any actual pics or firsthand accounts. Unless you're brutalizing the thing, the handle on my knife only gives you a 4 or 5 inch lever to exert force with. At that point, unless there was a defect, you would have to be really abusing the knife to destroy the 1/4" steel pin, breach the 1/8" thick steel wall of the handle tubing, and tear out the epoxy that I've put in there.

I will continue to test it, but I'm having a hard time seeing how that would happen. Think about just defeating the inch thick epoxy "rivet" that's in the handle alone. That would take tremendous force. Now imagine the steel pin. You've got an approx. 1 inch long, 1/4" thick steel pin. Take that into your shop, and try to destroy it without power tools. I can't see the mayhem that would ensue being in any way similar to what you would encounter while using the knife in the woods. But, obviously, I'm a little biased. Thanks for the comments, and believe me, I will be beating it up real soon.

Sam
 
Great looking knife. Would be cool if you could unwrap the handle to use as a fishing line.....
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Thanks, Rody.

Chuck Gedraitis Knives said:
I agree with everyone's posts, you have thought out the design well.

The one thing I would change is to add a radiused finger choil in front of the guard, that way the user could "choke up" on the handle if needed.
Something like this.
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Thank you, Chuck. You make some very beautiful knives. I will try to incorporate the radiused finger choil into the knife. I like to use choils to choke up on knives, although I know some don't care for them. I rounded all the corners on the choil on this one, but a radius would still be more comfortable. Thank you.

Sam, just a thought, but you could offer it to the Knife Reviews and Testing subforum. They put knives through everyday type tests,. and with good reviews, you gain some strong publicity for future sales.
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David, I have thought about this, but I want to do some further testing myself, some of which I will make a video of. If it comes out good, that may be the route I pursue. There are some respected members that frequent there, and I agree, that would do good for the reputation of the knife, and me as a maker. I hope things progress to that point.
 
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This is a very nice design. Keep up the good work!
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Thank you, cpio.


Rhinoknives1 said:
Sam,
As others have noted, Very well thought out concepts and execution. Continue to work and test all different aspects of your design to look for possible improvements.
I also think the inner sheath compartments are a great use of space and very clever. One thing I suggest regarding a retention strap is that I had a sheath maker that I told to put a pivot on the back of the keeper strap instead of sewing it down so you can rotate it down the back of the sheath while working with the knife and when you are really to go. Rotate it back over the top rear corner of the sheath and button it down. I am on a Ipad now or I would post a picture for you.

Keep them coming. You are doing great!
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Thank you, Laurence. I checked out your website, you've got some very nice stuff. That Rhino Chop is a wicked looking kitchen blade. Thanks for taking the time to post. I've got a sheath like that from Rowe's, and you're right, it is very well thought out.
 
I was agreeing with you about your handle :) lol, suggesting the blade would give up The ghost before your jointe.

On the subject of choils, I don't recall your design at theoment but I am a fan of choils that sometimes finds them unnecessary depending on blade design.

Check out the Kabar model 1247, this is an example of a knife that features a cutout not meant to be a choil but with a large enough gap between the blade and guard that it functions as one very well, making choiling obsolete. Though sometimes I feel inclined to file the very beggining of the edge down at a 45 degree angle to keep the corner from poking me annoyingly.

The Becker BK9 is another example of where a choil is not needed because the blades cutting edge extends close enough down to the handle that it can be choked up far enough for carving quite easily without one.

Where the Kabar 1277 is an example of a knife where a choil is absolutely necassary to perform "up close" work. If you hold the 1277 and the BK9 side by side there is about an inch more cutting edge on the Becker near the guard due to lack of ricasso that the 1277 has.
 
Since you mentioned possibly making these to sell and asked for constructive criticism----

Many folks will be turned off by how you placed the plunge cut. Visually, it looks "off" because of its distance from the dropped edge of the choil. Functionally, it leaves you with around 3/16" to 1/4" of wasted edge. IMHO, the plunge cut should intersect with the dropped edge... which will alleviate both of those issues.

I'm not sure what's going on with the shape of the knife out at the tip... but it looks funky to me. I think it's mostly due to the clip grind. That area looks kind of accidental and not intentional.

The tang seems kind of hoaky. I'm not saying it is. If you tested it and it held up then that's what is important, but I can tell you a LOT of potential buyers would see that and not have warm fuzzies about it. Integral construction would certainly take away any doubt about the strength and draw in a lot more potential buyers.

I'm just trying to give you honest, constructive criticism that could help you to improve the knife. I like the features you came up with for the handle... very cool stuff. :)
 
stvpourciau said:
I was agreeing with you about your handle :) lol, suggesting the blade would give up The ghost before your jointe.

On the subject of choils, I don't recall your design at theoment but I am a fan of choils that sometimes finds them unnecessary depending on blade design.

Check out the Kabar model 1247, this is an example of a knife that features a cutout not meant to be a choil but with a large enough gap between the blade and guard that it functions as one very well, making choiling obsolete. Though sometimes I feel inclined to file the very beggining of the edge down at a 45 degree angle to keep the corner from poking me annoyingly.

The Becker BK9 is another example of where a choil is not needed because the blades cutting edge extends close enough down to the handle that it can be choked up far enough for carving quite easily without one.

Where the Kabar 1277 is an example of a knife where a choil is absolutely necassary to perform "up close" work. If you hold the 1277 and the BK9 side by side there is about an inch more cutting edge on the Becker near the guard due to lack of ricasso that the 1277 has.
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No worries, man. I got your meaning, I just wanted to explain the way other makers do these types of knives. Thanks for the info about the choils, that will give me some reading later on. Thanks for commenting, stv.
 
NickWheeler said:
Since you mentioned possibly making these to sell and asked for constructive criticism----

Many folks will be turned off by how you placed the plunge cut. Visually, it looks "off" because of its distance from the dropped edge of the choil. Functionally, it leaves you with around 3/16" to 1/4" of wasted edge. IMHO, the plunge cut should intersect with the dropped edge... which will alleviate both of those issues.

I'm not sure what's going on with the shape of the knife out at the tip... but it looks funky to me. I think it's mostly due to the clip grind. That area looks kind of accidental and not intentional.

The tang seems kind of hoaky. I'm not saying it is. If you tested it and it held up then that's what is important, but I can tell you a LOT of potential buyers would see that and not have warm fuzzies about it. Integral construction would certainly take away any doubt about the strength and draw in a lot more potential buyers.

I'm just trying to give you honest, constructive criticism that could help you to improve the knife. I like the features you came up with for the handle... very cool stuff. :)
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Nick, thanks for giving me some good technical input from a maker. I will give some more thought to the plunge cut. You make a good point about the wasted edge, I hadn't really thought about it too much since it has a 9 1/2" long blade. I might move it back to maximize length more.

I am a little surprised at some of the comments about the blade/handle joint, not just from you, but others. I definitely want to hear everybody's thoughts on it. Both Randall knives and Martin knives use similar methods to join their hollow handles together, and it seems to be effective for them. Either way, I appreciate your comments both as a knife collector and a user/maker. Thank you for taking the time.

Sam
 
NickWheeler said:
Since you mentioned possibly making these to sell and asked for constructive criticism----

Many folks will be turned off by how you placed the plunge cut. Visually, it looks "off" because of its distance from the dropped edge of the choil. Functionally, it leaves you with around 3/16" to 1/4" of wasted edge. IMHO, the plunge cut should intersect with the dropped edge... which will alleviate both of those issues.

I'm not sure what's going on with the shape of the knife out at the tip... but it looks funky to me. I think it's mostly due to the clip grind. That area looks kind of accidental and not intentional.

The tang seems kind of hoaky. I'm not saying it is. If you tested it and it held up then that's what is important, but I can tell you a LOT of potential buyers would see that and not have warm fuzzies about it. Integral construction would certainly take away any doubt about the strength and draw in a lot more potential buyers.

I'm just trying to give you honest, constructive criticism that could help you to improve the knife. I like the features you came up with for the handle... very cool stuff. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just realized I didn't include this in the original comment. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "hoaky?" It is the same basic tang style as used by Randall Knives, and pretty much everybody else who makes two-piece hollow handle knives, although I do know that not everyone radiuses their tang as I have done. I doubt that people would think of Randall, Newt Martin, Buck (which I believe just threaded the tang of the 184 and put a nut on it, although I might be wrong), Jimmy Lile, and other makers were "hoaky." Unless you're making a one piece hollow handle knife, you are going to have to have a stub tang, and one that fits the inside diameter of the handle tube. What could I do to improve it, besides making it out of one piece, obviously? Thank you for commenting.

Sam
 
Since the strength of the blade/handle joint has been discussed much, I thought I would put this here. The rest of the video, and several others, are in a thread in the Reviews and Testing section. Hope this helps clear up any questions about the strength of the knife.

[video=youtube_share;amrJY9blnaw]http://youtu.be/amrJY9blnaw[/video]

Let me know what you think. :thumbup:
 
Carbon1 said:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "hoaky?" Sam
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It is a highly technical, redneck engineering term. I'm not surprised it isn't used in the big cities. ;) LOL

I was just trying to give you an idea of the kind of reaction you will get from buyers.

I'm just a knife maker, so you can take my comments with a grain of salt. But keep in mind, most times, knife makers just sort of pat each other on the back... which is nice for comraderia, but it doesn't help much if a guy is truly trying to improve something for the sake of being a better maker, and especially not when talking about selling something.

Personally, I tend to react best to a mix of positive and CONSTRUCTIVE negative feedback--- so I apologize if my post seemed overly negative. I was trying to get right down to the nitty gritty of things, because you clearly put a lot of thought and effort into this project.

If you want to get honest feedback from a group that won't sugar coat anything, put this in the "Custom" forum here. That sub-forum is made up of guys that actually take their hard earned money and buy knives. A lot of makers that post their work here in Shoptalk, won't post in the Custom area because "they're too mean over there!" ;)

Your video with the chin ups is a very good idea, and something you should include in the initial posts about your knife. I wasn't saying your tang sucked, I was saying that a lot of buyers would question it. By including that video, you would eliminate most naysayers. :)

You might want to reshoot it though, and set the camera back to show your whole body. Trust me, as someone who's posted quite a bit of youtube videos.... You'll get a dozen dipsticks posting things like, "We couldn't see yo legs, U wuz standin on a chair! Fake!!!!" :eek: :thumbdn:

I know, I know...:rolleyes: it's stupid... but I can almost guarantee it. :foot:

I think it's great that you are so passionate about what you're doing, and you're taking all the responses in a calm manner... that alone puts you 100 clicks above most guys that come in here and post early projects.

Keep up the good work Sam. :) :cool:
 
Carbon1 said:
Thank you, cpio.




Thank you, Laurence. I checked out your website, you've got some very nice stuff. That Rhino Chop is a wicked looking kitchen blade. Thanks for taking the time to post.
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Sam,
Thanks for the kind words. My Rhino chop is a hybrid of a Japanese Nakari/Chinese chop and a Ulu Inuit knife.

Many scratch theirs heads when they see it, but once the use it, they see the versatility of it.
Since this is your first baby so to speak I will share something that took me a little while to figure out about new designs. What Chuck and Nick have commented is good constructive criticism and that can be very helpful.

There are others that will tell you all the reasons yours is a stupid Idea and you need to do this that and another thing because secretly inside their heart of hearts they are jealous that they don't have the gumption to try something new and different.

I saw a film clip by the man that invented those funny looking stabilizers that go straight up on the wing tips of the new boeing and airbus giant jets. Without those these giant jets couldn't fly because the wings don't create enough lift without them and if they made the wings any longer the jets won't fit on the runway.

His comment was, If about half the people aren't scratching their heads when they see your designs?
You are NOT innovating!

Just some food for thought.
 
Thanks for clearing that up, Nick. No apology needed. If you ever have a conversation with me face to face, you'll find sometimes it's almost impossible to decide if I'm being serious, sarcastic, or offensive, or maybe all three. Internet conversations are always difficult to read. I am glad that I've gotten the repsonses that I have so far. It's already caused me to double and triple check things about the knife, and question almost every aspect of it. It is nice to get the positive stuff, too, so you don't think that you built a piece of crap. But the negative stuff is usually what motivates people to reevaluate and make changes. So, I thank you again for taking time to weigh in as a maker, and give honest feedback. It sounds like Custom is where I'm headed next, lol.

As far as the video, I know you're right about that. That's why I shot the whole 11 minute video, boring as it was, so people would know it was the actual finished knife that I did chin-ups on. I couldn't get anymore of myself in-frame because I have made half of my garage into a grinding room, and the camera was already against the wall. But eventually, I will reshoot it to be more clear. Because you ARE correct about people on the Yubes, they will pick it apart like buzzards. Thanks again,

Sam
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Sam,
Thanks for the kind words. My Rhino chop is a hybrid of a Japanese Nakari/Chinese chop and a Ulu Inuit knife.

Many scratch theirs heads when they see it, but once the use it, they see the versatility of it.
Since this is your first baby so to speak I will share something that took me a little while to figure out about new designs. What Chuck and Nick have commented is good constructive criticism and that can be very helpful.

There are others that will tell you all the reasons yours is a stupid Idea and you need to do this that and another thing because secretly inside their heart of hearts they are jealous that they don't have the gumption to try something new and different.

I saw a film clip by the man that invented those funny looking stabilizers that go straight up on the wing tips of the new boeing and airbus giant jets. Without those these giant jets couldn't fly because the wings don't create enough lift without them and if they made the wings any longer the jets won't fit on the runway.

His comment was, If about half the people aren't scratching their heads when they see your designs?
You are NOT innovating!

Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the thoughtful words, Laurence. I appreciate it. As a brand new maker, a complicated hollow handle knife/sheath system probably wasn't the best choice for a first knife, but hollow handled knives have always done it for me. As Nick brought out, I'm doing something I'm passionate about. I will to continue to work on the balance of a new maker lacking confidence, and being overly confident in my creations or refusing constructive help. And I believe you about the Rhino Chop.

Your illustration about the wing stabilizers reminds me of a quote attributed to Gen. Douglas MacArthur: "If we're all thinking the same thing, somebody's not thinking!" Thank you again.

Sam
 
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