New Hollow Handle "Survival" Knife- What do you think?

caine said:
awesome i like it
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Thank you. I will post some more pics soon. I will probably put them in the Review thread, though, so the knifemakers here don't have to keep seeing this thread, lol.
 
Another sugesstion/thought I came up with today while carving and feathersticking with my Mora: how's about a little tweakage of the small knife?

I know grinds are an extremely personal thing to people and maybe you as a maker but how's about putting a scandi grind on the PSK?

I like full flat grinds as well buti don't think that anyone will argue with the effectiveness of a Scandinavian grind when doing small and up close or detail work on wood for bushcraty rule things.

You demonstrated very well the large model 1 creating shavings but why not have a little knife that's every bit as planned out as the large one with a grind that will appeal to the bushcrafty/survival crowd without fail and as a plus, cut through wood like warm butter.

The psk as it is appears a little short, little triangle with virtually all upsweep/belly leading to the point, and missing just a little sweet spot of straight edge on the blade.

To see what I'm thinking, look at the Svord Peasant Knife and put a Scandi grind on it and that will be around in the ball park with it including your full tang design And have it made from a steel meant to be beaten on/abused/pried with like the L6 in that little gem.

Leave just a little space in the sheath to accommodate for the cord wrap (preferably) bank line/decoy line or skmething like that that most guys who buy your knife with big ole meat paws will inevitably do; or just do it yourself to the way of your liking. But if there's k we thing I've seen around this forum, its that most all of the skelotknized knives around here end up cord wrapped because the majority of our "peeps" are big old guys with large hands that just can't handle the blade efficient any other way.

Anyway, it would add a lot more punch to the package; kinda like 2 knives for one as opposed to a small toss in knife to compensate for thearge knifes shortcomings in some areas.

Again, take this as constructive as I really do admire the work you've done. I just think that you could pack a lit more wow factor j to that little psk and have it become a model of its own :)
 
Thanks, stvporciau, that's a lot to think about. And I do appreciate the input. I will have to play around with the PSK knife a little more, and see what different directions to take it. At some point, I've got to consider how much work to put into the package for the price point it's going to be at. That's one of the reasons I will only be doing stonewash or machine satin finishes on the blades, as opposed to hand sanding them. I've got to make this a complete package, that I can make some amount of profit on, without pricing it out of range for the intended audience. And balancing that with being a new maker with no name recognition. That's why those ridiculous videos of abusing the knife were done, so people would know I didn't just go out to the garage and "glue together" a knife.

The PSK knife is geared a little more toward "survival" type scenarios, as opposed to woodworking and carving, but after I sell a few, if I sell a few, then maybe I will start offering some options on things like the PSK knife. And I like the idea of a thin cord wrap, it can really soften the edges on a bare-handled knife like that. I will play around with that this weekend, maybe. I was planning on using 154CM for the PSK knives, to give it a good quality steel, that will be relatively maintenance free. It's not really big enough to baton on or really beat on, too much. It's 1/8" stock, slightly thinned down, so I think it will be more than sufficiently strong for its intended purpose. But, everything is subject to change with experience and more experimentation. Thanks for the ideas, and keep 'em coming. I appreciate the feedback.
 
If you are really going to plunge into this, I'd like to suggest it's more than just the knife, it's about putting your name out there. I'd drop the Carbon 1 thing, put a real name out there with a solid 100% guantee. On the other hand, you have the option of selling them piecemeal, and building a reputation. Also, I'd start thinking about another product, not everyone likes hollow handle survivial knives. Whatever you do or decide, I wish you luck and success, bro.
 
Man, this is just one fantastic knife and sheath idea! Great Job!! Now I am sure that you'll make all of us here on Blade Forums one of these beautiful knives and sheaths, and present them to us as free gifts, right? or better yet, how about this: Everyone who has sent you a reply and complimented you on a job well done, gets the honor and receives a brand new handmade knife and sheath like this as a Thank You gift...OK? LOL Ha Ha Ha!! Just kidding buddy! Again, great job and congrats!!
 
Thank you, David. I agree with you 100%. After your post, I emailed RevDevil to see about changing my username to Sam Wilson, and getting a knifemaker's membership. I don't know exactly what you mean by selling piecemeal in this context, but I am trying to decide whether to just post completed knives for sale, or wait until someone requests one, as there are a couple of different variables in a knife of this style that can be customized. I don't want to make a knife like this, and have it sitting around because someone wanted a machine finish, as opposed to stonewashed, or something like that.

I also agree with you completely about the hollow handle concept. I never figured there would be enough interest to make only that style of knife, but I love them, and have always wanted a custom one, so I thought it would give me what I wanted, and be an opportunity to demonstrate that I could make a decent knife. I am working to come up with a couple of standard knives that would interest a wider market, but still be somewhat appealing to make. I really love big blades, so a good number of them will probably be large knives, but I don't foresee that being an issue.

By all means, feel free to give any other suggestions, as I am obviously new at this, and welcome the direction. Everyone here has been very helpful, and I've enjoyed learning already. But I totally loved making that knife, and the one I'm working on in the shop right now. I would love to be able to do it regularly, and sell what I make. If I could get to where it was part-time or something, I would be thrilled. Again, thanks for your help, and feel free to add anything else.

Sam Wilson :thumbup:
 
Since this is happening rather fast, I might as well throw my last critique out there;

I don't like the holes kin the guard, not fit any aesthetic reason and i know that those holes are common on this style knife but because having the holes there will lead te user to be inclined to think that they are for lashing a pole to and throwing it like a spear.

If you tie your knife to a pole and throw it, it will break. Its not a question of of but when.

If it were me, I'd rather just not put the holes there and avoid future issue and broken knives from ever being a possibility but that's just my 2¢.

No holes=No lashing

Also yes, the psk never designed to be a bushcrafters knife but it could be :)

Out of the knives I own the best combination to me seems to be my large BK9 and a small Mora 511.

Don't get me wrong, I have a small folder tucked into the pocket of my Bk9 for just the same type of dirty work the PSK was intended for but i don't consider it part of my woodscrafting kit/pairing, it's just there.

I still have to carry 2 knives in the woods and if your slip sheath wilderness kit has the potential to rise above that issue, then why do it :)

I guess it doesn't matter to anyone who really plays in the woods, we all have other knives.. I'm always packing an Opinel In the left pocket and a SAK Camper + mini-multitool chained to it in the right plus I have a Laplander finding saw handy.
 
Also, I don't like the compass.

The only purpose a little cheap compass like that could serve is of you got turned around at night and didn't have your bearings. I wouldn't trust my life to it.

To take that compass and think that you can practice land navigation to any degree of accuracy and make it out of the woods alive from point A to point B is a false sense of security.

Then again, anyone who possesses the skills and knowledge to do such a thing are likely already possess the proper equipment to do so, so i guess it doesn't really matter.
 
Thanks stv, for the suggestions. You're probably right, I doubt many people use the lashing holes for the spear purpose, either. I don't see it ending very well as a spear, but it was one of those details where I thought I would go with the tradition of survival knives. If I didn't put them there, people would be asking why not, ha ha. As far as the compass, none of the items in the "survival kit" are designed to be primary use items. People often disparage the thought of putting your survival supplies with the knife, reasoning that if you lose your knife, you lose everything. The way I have always approached it is that the kit with the knife is a redundancy to the primary kit and supplies elsewhere on my person.

I wouldn't recommend using that or probably any button compass for much navigation, but if you've lost everything else, it is certainly better than nothing, and will give you the cardinal directions pretty reliably. I have tested that compass in particular quite a bit, and found it quite reliable. If you do a search on "NATO compass" or something to that effect, you will be able to find out more about that little guy in particular. Here is a link to it right here on Bladeforums: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/884578-The-FB-1605-NATO-SAS-Survival-Button-Compass Here are some shots of it while I was out field-testing the knife and survival kit.

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Sam :thumbup:
 
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I like the idea and basic design. I would do the choil more rounded and sharpen to it. I also hate a false edge on a survival knife, it destroys the baton. I like the drop point design, reminds me of a Busse Steel Heart. Now go knock out about 20 and get good at making em.

I like it. Continue to post updates and design changes please.
 
Just to toss in contrasting opinion, the choil design on your knife is aesthetically my favorite thing about it :)

Glad you rounded out the edges well
 
Carbon1 said:
Thank you, David. I agree with you 100%. After your post, I emailed RevDevil to see about changing my username to Sam Wilson, and getting a knifemaker's membership. I don't know exactly what you mean by selling piecemeal in this context, but I am trying to decide whether to just post completed knives for sale, or wait until someone requests one, as there are a couple of different variables in a knife of this style that can be customized. I don't want to make a knife like this, and have it sitting around because someone wanted a machine finish, as opposed to stonewashed, or something like that.

I also agree with you completely about the hollow handle concept. I never figured there would be enough interest to make only that style of knife, but I love them, and have always wanted a custom one, so I thought it would give me what I wanted, and be an opportunity to demonstrate that I could make a decent knife. I am working to come up with a couple of standard knives that would interest a wider market, but still be somewhat appealing to make. I really love big blades, so a good number of them will probably be large knives, but I don't foresee that being an issue.

By all means, feel free to give any other suggestions, as I am obviously new at this, and welcome the direction. Everyone here has been very helpful, and I've enjoyed learning already. But I totally loved making that knife, and the one I'm working on in the shop right now. I would love to be able to do it regularly, and sell what I make. If I could get to where it was part-time or something, I would be thrilled. Again, thanks for your help, and feel free to add anything else.

Sam Wilson :thumbup:
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Sam,
This is your baby! I personally don't care for metal handled knives in the outdoors because when it's cold, they are cold and when it's hot,......
Also a round cylindrical handle isn't the best ergos for our hands. But I am only one person and many people like, collect & use hollow handle knives like yours. So do what you want to do and focus on making this one design the best you possibly can.

That's what I did with my Rhino Chop and I am always getting more feedback and testing the design myself so there may be more changes in the future?
Your second style of knife will come to you when you least expect it! That's how new designs work for me anyway?

One of the supply houses I buy from has a hollow handle kit you may want to look at? Its called market research ;)
You may get some ideas on how to improve your's from it?
http://usaknifemaker.com/survival-type-hollow-handle-stainless-knife-handle-tube.html
 
Sam, I'm just posting this as food for thought. You now have a nifty hollow handle survival knife--a nice addition would be a all in one shovel, hacket, saw, with everthing interchangable. There's a few makers out there, but if you come up with a neat new lightweight design, in a compact package, you would have a nice outdoors survival package.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Sam,
This is your baby! I personally don't care for metal handled knives in the outdoors because when it's cold, they are cold and when it's hot,......
Also a round cylindrical handle isn't the best ergos for our hands. But I am only one person and many people like, collect & use hollow handle knives like yours. So do what you want to do and focus on making this one design the best you possibly can.

That's what I did with my Rhino Chop and I am always getting more feedback and testing the design myself so there may be more changes in the future?
Your second style of knife will come to you when you least expect it! That's how new designs work for me anyway?

One of the supply houses I buy from has a hollow handle kit you may want to look at? Its called market research ;)
You may get some ideas on how to improve your's from it?
http://usaknifemaker.com/survival-type-hollow-handle-stainless-knife-handle-tube.html
Click to expand...

You bring up a very good point, Laurence. This was a very important issue to me. I have used a number of hollow handle knives, and this was a drawback to the design. The handle tends to roll in your hand during hard use, like chopping, and can be difficult to index and maintain position properly when doing prolonged work with it. I briefly mentioned this in the write-up, but I contoured the handle to help alleviate these problems. It doesn't eliminate them, but I feel that it is a significant improvement. I tried to capture it in photos, but it just wouldn't show up. I may video it on the next one I do. Here is a rough illustration to show what the handle profile is like:

HandleShapeDrawing_zpsfc267138.jpg


It is a little more gradual than that, but you get the idea. And thank you for the link to the handle supplier. I looked at those while I was designing the knife, but they had a few inherent limitations. The 300 series stainless they are made from is probably more than sufficient, but I live in the PNW, and I thought I might as well use the best materials for corrosion resistance I can. So I made mine from 316 SS, commonly referred to as Marine Grade, for it's rust resistance capabilities.

Additionally, those tubes from the supplier are only 4" in length, I believe. By the time you put your tang (over an inch long) in there, and thread in your buttcap, you've only got a little over 2" of storage space. I didn't want to settle for that. Now, I can make the handle whatever length I want, whether for aesthetic or function purposes. Thank you and everyone else for your continued suggestions. This has really given me a lot to think about, and some improvements to the next one. Well appreciated. :thumbup:
 
David Stifle said:
Sam, I'm just posting this as food for thought. You now have a nifty hollow handle survival knife--a nice addition would be a all in one shovel, hacket, saw, with everthing interchangable. There's a few makers out there, but if you come up with a neat new lightweight design, in a compact package, you would have a nice outdoors survival package.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, David. I want to primarily make knives, but I believe there might be a small niche market for custom outdoors/survival tools like you speak of. I am running a lot of things through my head in that direction. I want to make sure that when I put something out, it's properly executed, and not just for the sake of selling it. I know that's not what you were saying, I'm just explaining my thought process.

And I almost forgot to add, thank you gixxer1237 and stv, for your input as well. A certain amount of any knife is going to be subjective, as far as personal preferences go. At the moment, I'm trying to make the knives that I find appealing, but on future versions I will try to incorporate user feedback. You can never get it perfect for everyone, though. :)

Sam
 
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Hello,

Carbon1, you sound like my long lost twin or something, LOL! I also love the hollow handled knives, And love ONLY big bladed ones. My minimum favored blade length is 8 inches. But I actually prefer 9 inches and above for knife blades. I also love the full round tang handled knives. There's a knife maker in AZ who came up with this concept. It is a knife that is full tang but the handle is shaped round. He said he came up with this for those ppl who aren't sold on the hollow handled knife concept but that also still love the round handle type that they have. I have two knives like this by him that he made. They are true beasts too. He said that this style of knife is the hardest design he has ever made, and is a bit tedious in areas. He said it really takes some skill and time to make these. But he has perfected it, And of course, you can wrap the handles in cord or mason's twine, or just whatever. Or you can leave them unwrapped.

Still though, and while a hollow handled knife might not have the same durability as full tang knives, if made well and if they are hand made by well known knife makers, and even those makers that are starting out but have the inbred skill to make them with great attention to detail, a hollow handled knife can be made to last a lifetime without ever breaking. This is also if you use the knife for what it is intended for, and not as a pry bar or hammer or things that you should use the right tools for doing. Hell, even a full tang knife will break if used the wrong way.

I think ppl mainly associate hollow handles with those cheapo factory made $5 and $10 knives of the '80's from China, and those that are mass produced today by United Cutlery and Master Cutlery. Those kinds of hollow handled knives are utterly useless. But if someone actually holds and uses a good solid well made hollow handled knife such as a Martin, Randall, Neely, ACK, and others, then they wills ee and learn just how solid real hollow handles can be made. That's just my opinion. I have some handmade hollow handled knives and some cheapo mass produced ones. Believe me, the produced ones don't come even close to being actually usable knives as compared to the handmades.

So Kudos to you buddy, for making your solid hollow handled knife!! You are definitely on the right track, and there are more hollow handled knife lovers out there than you are aware of. Just that most of them can't afford the $500, and up price tag that makers put on them. And I think they are praying and hoping that one day, a maker will come along and make good solid hollow handled knives and not try and get rich on them by putting hefty price tags on them. Some knife makers have begun to answer this call. Greg Wall, for example, has prices that are more than reasonable...and he is a good knife maker at that. And I am sure that as the knife maker world grows, more makers will come with competitive prices.








Carbon1 said:
Thank you, David. I agree with you 100%. After your post, I emailed RevDevil to see about changing my username to Sam Wilson, and getting a knifemaker's membership. I don't know exactly what you mean by selling piecemeal in this context, but I am trying to decide whether to just post completed knives for sale, or wait until someone requests one, as there are a couple of different variables in a knife of this style that can be customized. I don't want to make a knife like this, and have it sitting around because someone wanted a machine finish, as opposed to stonewashed, or something like that.

I also agree with you completely about the hollow handle concept. I never figured there would be enough interest to make only that style of knife, but I love them, and have always wanted a custom one, so I thought it would give me what I wanted, and be an opportunity to demonstrate that I could make a decent knife. I am working to come up with a couple of standard knives that would interest a wider market, but still be somewhat appealing to make. I really love big blades, so a good number of them will probably be large knives, but I don't foresee that being an issue.

By all means, feel free to give any other suggestions, as I am obviously new at this, and welcome the direction. Everyone here has been very helpful, and I've enjoyed learning already. But I totally loved making that knife, and the one I'm working on in the shop right now. I would love to be able to do it regularly, and sell what I make. If I could get to where it was part-time or something, I would be thrilled. Again, thanks for your help, and feel free to add anything else.





Sam Wilson :thumbup:
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Hello,

Personally I like the lashing holes in the guard. and prefer them on each side. But not as much so to turn my knife into a spear and chink it and risk breaking it or even losing it, as you say here. But I like them so that I can put a lanyard through them and use it to wrap my wrist around it. I also like a hole in the endcap too. but mainly the reason for liking the guard holes is for looks. I just think a knife looks very good and looks very usable if it has the holes in the guard. I mean, you can tie through those holes and use it for anything. but this is just my personal preference. I really won't buy a knife without it having a hole in at least the pommel or the top part of the handle, and actually prefer them in the guard too. And I know that is just my dumbness, LOL. But still...I's likes what I's likes and cannot help it, LOL!

stvpourciau said:
Also, I don't like the compass.

The only purpose a little cheap compass like that could serve is of you got turned around at night and didn't have your bearings. I wouldn't trust my life to it.

To take that compass and think that you can practice land navigation to any degree of accuracy and make it out of the woods alive from point A to point B is a false sense of security.

Then again, anyone who possesses the skills and knowledge to do such a thing are likely already possess the proper equipment to do so, so i guess it doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, thedemonbeast, for your comments. You seem to be as big a hollow handle fan as me, if not bigger. Over in the Knife Reviews section, I've got some videos of the knife in use/abuse situations, you can see for yourself how well it's made. Stay tuned, in the next couple of days I will have some more pics that should be interesting. I will put them here, to keep this consolidated. Thanks again,

Sam
 
Carbon1 said:


You bring up a very good point, Laurence. This was a very important issue to me. I have used a number of hollow handle knives, and this was a drawback to the design. The handle tends to roll in your hand during hard use, like chopping, and can be difficult to index and maintain position properly when doing prolonged work with it. I briefly mentioned this in the write-up, but I contoured the handle to help alleviate these problems. It doesn't eliminate them, but I feel that it is a significant improvement. I tried to capture it in photos, but it just wouldn't show up. I may video it on the next one I do. Here is a rough illustration to show what the handle profile is like:

HandleShapeDrawing_zpsfc267138.jpg


It is a little more gradual than that, but you get the idea. And thank you for the link to the handle supplier. I looked at those while I was designing the knife, but they had a few inherent limitations. The 300 series stainless they are made from is probably more than sufficient, but I live in the PNW, and I thought I might as well use the best materials for corrosion resistance I can. So I made mine from 316 SS, commonly referred to as Marine Grade, for it's rust resistance capabilities.

Additionally, those tubes from the supplier are only 4" in length, I believe. By the time you put your tang (over an inch long) in there, and thread in your buttcap, you've only got a little over 2" of storage space. I didn't want to settle for that. Now, I can make the handle whatever length I want, whether for aesthetic or function purposes. Thank you and everyone else for your continued suggestions. This has really given me a lot to think about, and some improvements to the next one. Well appreciated. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Sam,
I mentioned the hollow handle from USA because i didn't know it you were aware of them and thought you might get some ideas from looking at that example.

I didn't read your full review, just this thread and think that it is super cool that you are improving on the ergos of the hollow handle, I wonder if you could machine a hump in the outer metal to fill your palm to help with that indexing problem while chopping etc? Sort of a wide cam lobe around the cylindrical tube on the spine of the blade part of the rear two thirds of the handle?

If that doesn't make sense? Feel free to PM me or we can chat on the phone if you wish?

Keep up the great work and design improvements.
 
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