New kitchen knife -- pretty exciting

J

Joe Talmadge

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Oct 3, 1998
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William Henry introduced a line of kitchen knives, and I haven't seen it discussed before ... I'm never the first one to find out about things anymore, so maybe I just missed it?

Very slick looking, as you'd expect of William Henry. But here's the interesting part. Blade is a laminate -- 420 on the outside, and ZDP-189 powder steel on the inside. Which knifecenter claims is hardened to 65-67 Rc (!!!!!!!). Won't be the easiest knife to sharpen, but should go a very long between sharpenings ... hell, it should go a very long time between steelings, at that hardness! Long as it doesn't chip out.

Here's a link:

http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?WHC06CF

Joe
 
Should perform like the Shun/KAI/Kershaw knifes which has a high carbon high hardness center layer....They are a bit expensive .
 
Ya, they're William Henry after all. Probably much better finished, but you gotta pay.

Is the KErshaw middle layer anywhere near 65-67 Rc? If not, they won't perform anywhere near like the William Henrys. That's assuming I read the knifecenter page right -- it said the steel can get to 65-67 Rc, not that these particular knives have steel that hard.

edit -- just looked, it seems like the Kershaws are VG-10. Hardened to 60-61 Rc or so? I expect 5 Rc points to be unbelieveably noticeable. You don't agree?
 
It's very hard. My experience with VG-10 says that at 65 Rc, it'll be very brittle.

A typical kitchen knife can go for a long time between sharpenings, provided you steel it very often -- which means that kitchen knife edges don't wear away, they turn. A knife with a 65 Rc blade won't be turning.
 
IIf it doesn't chip very easily I'd agree. But I'd rather have a roled edge in the kitchen than a chipped one.
 
Lovely knife... I would be glad to have it in my posession. But I don't even have a $200 EDC yet, so the kitchen knife will have to wait :D
 
To me these new extra hard stainless-steels are a very interesting development. For a knife to hold a fine edge you need hardness above 60 Rc. It is good to see this material being used more in production knives. On the site of knife maker Glenn Waters you can find a little information about these knives. He is one of the few makers use this steel. Fallknives also makes a few knives with extra hard ss edges. The reviews I have read on these knives have been very positive. They say the will intoduce more such knives at the end of the year. I am looking forward to is. I like hi-performance edges and steels like ZDP-189, Cowry X and SGPS seem to improve on what is currently on the marked ss wise.

JD
 
The edge geometry certainly looks nice from the pictures. The steel has 3% carbon and 20% Cr, simple makeup like most of the Japanese steels. There is a massive amount of nonsensical hype about it though, some makers are promoting it as its high hardness makes it a good choice for heavy chopping. It is also supposed to be ductile at that high hardness, and for some reason inherently easy to sharpen.

-Cliff
 
I think Murry Carter in Japan also offers kitchen knives with a ZDP-189 core, as well as white and blue steels. I don't know if he hardens them that high, but for less money than the William Henry you can get a set of two handmade ABS Mastersmith knives that perform marvelously. My sister has been using two white steel core knives, a paring knife and santoku, for almost a year and asked me to sharpen them recently. Neither showed any sign of rolling nor were they very dull, so touch-up was a breeze.

IMHO wear resistance is not a big issue with kitchen knife steel. I see two typical philosophies here. The safe, Western way is to use a soft stainless that won't chip but rolls and steels easily. These knives are easy to manufacture and lead to fewer warranty issues because they rarely chip or rust. The Japanese way uses very hard edges that may chip but are very resistant to rolling. That's why you seldom see butcher's steels used by Japanese chefs or included with Japanese knife sets. I'm guessing that this approach is culturally appropriate, as a traditional Japanese chef will tend to take good care of his knives and never use them inappropriately. BTW I'm not Japanese so please correct me if I'm wrong :D :footinmou .
 
I love it. Never seen it before. Great find! However, I must admit, for that price I would probably go with a hand made traditional Japanese kitchen knife.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The edge geometry certainly looks nice from the pictures. The steel has 3% carbon and 20% Cr, simple makeup like most of the Japanese steels. There is a massive amount of nonsensical hype about it though, some makers are promoting it as its high hardness makes it a good choice for heavy chopping. It is also supposed to be ductile at that high hardness, and for some reason inherently easy to sharpen.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Cliff, I'd be VERY interested to see what happened after you got your hands on one of these. That hype is pretty intense -- I don't know how you could have a 65-67rc steel, and sharpen it in "seconds" -- unless they contend that you're sharpening the 440 instead -- doesn't that defeat the purpose?

I wonder if WH would be willing to run the Cliff Stamp Gauntlet -- it would certainly put my disbelief to rest.
 
Saw these at Blade. Felt nice in the hand but I couldn't get them to let me borrow it to fix supper and really try it out. :D
 
sharpening in "seconds" may be overblowing it a bit, but a lot of these high-performance kitchen knives have such thin edges that they sharpen up surprisingly quickly on diamond stones.
 
For the record, Kershaw says the VG-10 interior of the Shun knives is hardened to RC60, not 65. I'm not sure VG-10 will take that much hardness.

Looking at the William Henry, I can't help but think that it's blade heavy. Has anybody had a chance to check out the balance? If it balances like it looks, it will just be a high tech wonder blade that's a hasssle to use in the kitchen. Guess I'd better order some in.

By the way, The Japanese have been using "hagane" carbon steel sandwiched with stainless in western style knives for years. The hagane is typically hardened to RC64. Using stainless in the core of these sandwiches is pretty recent since stainless steels capable of taking that kind of hardness are relatively new. Take care.
 
Steeldriver, you have a good point there.On one of the FOODTV programs ,one of those competition things, the american Bobby Flay jumped onto the cutting board to respond to his fans.The japanese chef was very angry, he said that in japan a chef respects his tools ,his knives and cutting board , and would never do that.
 
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