New knife sharpness

DocJD said:
Pathetic as it is , a lot of people now really cannot sharpen even a softer steel . They depend on receiving a sharp knife , brand new .
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I gotta disagree here. ANYONE who owns and uses a knife needs to know how to sharpen it, because they don't stay sharp if you actually use them.
So if you can sharpen a knife once it goes dull through use, then you can also sharpen it when it's new, if it's necessary.
 
David Mary said:
Agreed. But that does not always reflect our reality. Knarfeng has the right stance, in my opinion. He knows how to sharpen, and as such can avoid the hassle of having to take a manufacturer or reseller to task for what is usually an easy fix. Sharpening is not a mystical unattainable skill. And the manufacturers and makers should get it right. But it's not a hill worth dying on.
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I believe both things can be true. New knife cut good outta box. Me know sharpen. Me happy.

It’s a show of a bare minimum courtesy to your customers when you ship out your knives as sharp and actually usable as soon as it’s in your hand. I’ve always appreciated my Spydercos and Cold Steels being sharp from day one, despite not commanding the same prices as Chris Reeve knives.

Sharpening is an essential skill every knife guy should have, I agree. Just like every firearm owner should know the four safety rules by heart and how to maintain their weapon.

P.S. If I received a dull knife from XYZ company, I’m not likely to order from them again, even if I can take the time to sharpen it. It’s like I got a burnt steak when I wanted medium, man!
 
DangerZone98 said:
courtesy to your customers
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Still agreed. My point was that if something small is missed, it doesn't automatically mean the maker or manufacturer just doesn't care, it doesn't automatically mean they deserve ire. Nobody's perfect, and if it's an easy fix I'll just let them know what I noticed. And then if they respond and say "we're sorry about that and thanks for the heads up, this is something we usually don't let happen" or whatever, then in my opinion all is well. If they respond with "oh come on it was more than sharp enough, you're making an issue out of nothing", or something like that, then people need to be made aware of their standards and how they treat people. And in either case, I'll fix the edge myself.
 
DangerZone98 said:
I believe both things can be true. New knife cut good outta box. Me know sharpen. Me happy.

It’s a show of a bare minimum courtesy to your customers when you ship out your knives as sharp and actually usable as soon as it’s in your hand. I’ve always appreciated my Spydercos and Cold Steels being sharp from day one, despite not commanding the same prices as Chris Reeve knives.

Sharpening is an essential skill every knife guy should have, I agree. Just like every firearm owner should know the four safety rules by heart and how to maintain their weapon.

P.S. If I received a dull knife from XYZ company, I’m not likely to order from them again, even if I can take the time to sharpen it. It’s like I got a burnt steak when I wanted medium, man!
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The dullest knife I have ever purchased was from a well known custom maker. The edge was absolutely dull. When I contacted him about it (thinking it simply got sent out before finishing), he dismissed it as a “new technique” he was using. That was the last of his knives I bought, and I gave that one to a buddy (sharpened). It was the attitude more than the dullness that did not sit well.
 
beeinak said:
The dullest knife I have ever purchased was from a well known custom maker. The edge was absolutely dull. When I contacted him about it (thinking it simply got sent out before finishing), he dismissed it as a “new technique” he was using. That was the last of his knives I bought, and I gave that one to a buddy (sharpened). It was the attitude more than the dullness that did not sit well.
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There’s a Loveless style maker here on BF that gets a lot of praise when he posts a new knife but after my buying experience, I politely send PM’s telling people to stay away. I received a knife that was quite dull with a nice thick edge and was told by him that most guys just buy his knives to look at so he doesn’t really put the time into the edge, also told me not to disclose this if I decided to “review” the knife because he didn’t want it to chase away customers. Get lost with that shit!

The knife also wasn’t the true Loveless pattern dimensions and when I pointed that out as well I was told that I was misinformed. This jackass didn’t respond when I sent the pic of his knife next to my actual Loveless showing the huge difference in size!!
 
Some things that stand out from this discussion so far:

- In an ideal world, a knife out of the box would be sharp. It's not an unreasonable standard, particularly if we're talking about a serious knife company, unlike companies like Frost Cutlery. The company in question is Tops and given their reputation, I would expect them to hold to this standard.
- In reality, many companies send out knives that are likely on the low to medium end of the average BF member's expectations for "sharp"
- Sending a knife back to the manufacturer for a resharpening because a knife was dull and then getting it back in the same or worse condition is even worse than receiving it dull in the first place. Established brands are sending out tons of knives, so expecting some of those leaving the factory to be on the duller side isn't crazy. But once you send something back for warranty or a quality complaint, this is the company's opportunity to show they take their business and customers seriously, and they seemed to have failed here.
- It's important to have some means of sharpening a knife that doesn't rely on the manufacturer and ideally on anyone else at all. You'll avoid this situation and do it yourself, but even if it came sharp to begin with, any regular use of a knife will eventually need resharpening.

Also, learning how to sharpen can be fun and a nice way to focus on something if you want to calm your mind

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knarfeng said:
I gotta disagree here. ANYONE who owns and uses a knife needs to know how to sharpen it, because they don't stay sharp if you actually use them.
So if you can sharpen a knife once it goes dull through use, then you can also sharpen it when it's new, if it's necessary.
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I did not mean to imply anything against people learning to sharpen .

Should , IMO , be a part of everyone's basic education .

Why basic life skills are generally not taught , in the USA at least , I don't understand . Almost like "they" want people to be helpless !

The educational system has time for loads of useless BS , but not for basic skills sets and knowledge useful for living .

I don't approve at all , but still a fact of life : Lots of people now not only can't sharpen , but are made resistant to learning by their social conditioning .

There are also those that genuinely have physical disabilities that preclude sharpening .
 
beeinak said:
If a $20 Opinel comes hair-popping sharp, there is no excuse for more expensive knives to not come with usable edges.
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You must have gotten lucky. All of my dozen-or-so Opinels have come with edges that could technically cut but usually had flat spots on the edge, especially near and up to the tip. Non-knifeknuts probably wouldn't even notice.

No bother, they are cheap and thin behind the edge so 60 seconds with a stone or diamond plate is all that was needed. I would be disappointed if I was to receive a more expensive knife with an edge in similar condition.
 
oldmanwilly said:
You must have gotten lucky. All of my dozen-or-so Opinels have come with edges that could technically cut but usually had flat spots on the edge, especially near and up to the tip. Non-knifeknuts probably wouldn't even notice.

No bother, they are cheap and thin behind the edge so 60 seconds with a stone or diamond plate is all that was needed. I would be disappointed if I was to receive a more expensive knife with an edge in similar condition.
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Maybe I got lucky, but I was/am happy with the 2 that I got at the same time. Great edges.
 
I wouldn't care if it's dull, if the cutting bevel was uniform heel to tip and side to side, but it rarely is. Even premium knives have wonky edges. I use a fixed angle sharpener, so in my world, the black sharpie shows all the inconsistencies in the edge. Often times blemishes in the edge aren't easy to see with the naked eye. Sharpening obviously corrects this at the cost of removing steel. In this age of the CNC, they can give us beautiful handles with all sorts of chamfering, contouring, milling and ano work but can't routinely deliver a uniform, sharp cutting edge.
 
David Mary said:
Still agreed. My point was that if something small is missed, it doesn't automatically mean the maker or manufacturer just doesn't care, it doesn't automatically mean they deserve ire. Nobody's perfect, and if it's an easy fix I'll just let them know what I noticed. And then if they respond and say "we're sorry about that and thanks for the heads up, this is something we usually don't let happen" or whatever, then in my opinion all is well. If they respond with "oh come on it was more than sharp enough, you're making an issue out of nothing", or something like that, then people need to be made aware of their standards and how they treat people. And in either case, I'll fix the edge myself.
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Forgot to put the holes in a belt once. Fixed it of course but the customer thought it was hilarious. He ordered several more.

I've made and shipped thousands of knives. Twice we have sent the wrong knife to one guy and his knife to another guy. What's weird about that? Both times the knife going to the other guy? Yeah it was the same guy both times. Can't even begin to calculate the odds of that! Out of thousands of customers the same guy got the oops knife both times.
 
beeinak said:
The dullest knife I have ever purchased was from a well known custom maker. The edge was absolutely dull. When I contacted him about it (thinking it simply got sent out before finishing), he dismissed it as a “new technique” he was using. That was the last of his knives I bought, and I gave that one to a buddy (sharpened). It was the attitude more than the dullness that did not sit well.
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I mean, he was right, inasmuch that this "new technique" was clearly "Eh, let the customer do it!". Cheeky!
 
Did I ever tell you Bocote is my favorite natural wood for handle scales?

Bocote is my favorite natural wood for handle scales.

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