New owners of Schrade

Im not sure where some of you all are finding these "just as good as the US made schrades" but....I wish I knew. I have seen a boatload of the chinese ones, and handled a bunch and have family that owns them, and Ive had some around myself...but they sucked. Gaps galore, covers coming up off of the liners seems to be common (and blocky covers too from poor finishing), uglier dye jobs than the old ones(thats just opinion though), chinese steel that doesnt compare to the old 1095, bad edges, blade play and just poor fit and finish generally. I actually checked one out in the local hardware store and it broke in my hands when I opened the blade. The backspring cracked, the blade was just dangling on it, and I handed it back to the employee I was talking to.
I dont buy them. I wont. Unless I inspect one and its excellent like the old ones were, then I just wont even bother. I dont care about the china thing either, I like Rough Rider and Marbles knives, but the Chinese Schrades just plain suck in my experience. If they work for you, then thats great but "they just dont make em like they used to..."
 
afishhunter said:
Taylor sold out to BTI a couple years ago.
In answer to the OP's question:
Yes. I have a couple Scharde US knifes.
An Old Timer 6OT and 7OT.
I also have a Taylor Schrade 7OT, and a couple BTI Schrade Old Timer's, but do not have a comperable US made to compare them with.
I also have a Taylor Schrade Hammer Brand 4 blade gunboat canoe, but again, no comperable US made Hammer Brand for comparison.

Comparing the US 7OT to the Taylor 7OT, there are no practical differences.
Both have excellent first and finish, and no gaps.
Both lock up tight, and have absolutely no blade wiggle in any direction when open or closed.
Both have centered blades.
Both came sharp out of the box. (At least I do not remember having to sharpen the US 7OT when I bought it in 1998 to 2000)
Both hold a good edge, for an acceptable time. If anything, the Taylor made 7OT might hold it's edge a little better/longer.
Both knives are easy to sharpen/maintain the edge.
Yes, there is a slight difference in the tan part of the Delrin used by Schrade US and Taylor Schrades. But, So what?!? It has absolutely no effect on the function, quality or durability of the knife.

The BTI Old Timers I have are the 95OT large trapper, and the 12OT Pocket Pal.
As I said, I do not have the US made models of these knives.
I can tell you, that these have no blade wiggle, the blades are centered, fit and finish is excellent, with no gaps, were sharp out of the package, do not have Swendon Key construction (I don't know if the US made 95OT and 12OT used Swendon Key construction or not.) and have a "5" pull on the blades.
I've not carried these very much (I've not carried the 12OT at all, it's considerably smaller than I like to carry. The only reason I have the 12OT is because it came with the 95OT.), but, so far, at least, the 95OT has been holding it's edge just fine.

From my experience, there is no real, practical difference between a US Made Schrade and one made by Taylor, BTI, or S&W. The only difference is country of origin ... And even that may not be as big a difference as you've been lead to believe. Schrade was having some of their knives made in China before they shut down.

To those who claim "There hasn't been a "REAL" Schrade made since 2004/Taylor got them ..."
You might want to move your date of when the last "real" Schrade was made just a wee bit earlier ...
There hasn't been a "real" Schrade made since George Schrade sold out to Imperial (Baer) about 100 years ago.
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"There hasn't been "REAL" Schrade made since 2004/Taylor got them ..."
I'm the great grandson of George and been making real Schrades since 2012.
 
William Schrade said:
I'm the great grandson of George and been making real Schrades since 2012.
Click to expand...
Under contract, or under a different brand name?
If not under contract, and if under the Schrade name, you are in danger of patent and trademark infringment and fraud law suits.

Being the great grandson of Geo. Schrade does not give you the right to manufacture "Schrade" banded knives, any more than the descendents of R.E. Olds have the right to produce Oldsmobile automobiles, before or after GM retired the Oldsmobile name, or REO trucks ... or REO farm wagons, and other farm implements, for that matter.
Only the owners of a brand can legally use that brand name.

I must ask:
Not to be argumentative, but HOW are what you produce a "real Schrade"?
Are you in the original factory, using the same machines, laborers, and executives, from before your great grandfather retired?
Irrelevant, since you do not own the brands or intellectual rights.

Were Schrade knives "real" as the labor force, executive management, and the board of directors changed, as the original workers quit, retired, or died off, being replaced by new workers, or as the original machinery became worn out, unrepairable, and was replaced?

If I remember correctly, Schrade changed locations at least once when your great grandfather was in charge.
If the location matters, were the knives produced after the moves still a "real" Schrade?

If not "real" because the CEO/President isn't a descendent or blood related to your great grandfather, then the US, and post 1988 or earlier to 2004 Imperial, and Schrade Westholm I*XL knives made when David Swindon was at the helm, are not a "real" Schrade, either. Nor are the modern one hand openers that Schrade US contracted for in Asia, prior to 2004.

CASE knives has not been owned or controlled by the Case family, and has been owned by Zippo Lighters for over a generation.
I don't hear anyone claiming Case knives made over the last 25 years are not a "real" Case, because the company is owned by Zippo, and there isn't a Case family member in a management or executive position, nor on the board of Directors.

Remington sold their cutlery operation pre-WW2. Are Remington knives produced since not a "real" Remington?

The Schrade knives produced since 2004 are a "real" Schrade.
They are produced under contract for the only entity that can legally contract for knives using any of the multitude of brand names owned by Imperial Schrade, use the brand and model names, and use any unexpired patents held by Imperial Schrade prior to 2004, without paying a patent royalty.

A change in ownership does not make the products that come after "fakes".
 
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Steve he's just saying he's a "real" Schrade making actual "Schrade" knives as in the family name. He's got his own brand, William Schrade Cutlery, absolutely nothing to do with the old Schrade of NY. Actually he's got a lot more in common with the George Schrade Knife Co than Schrade Cut Co/Walden/Ellenville since that was his Great Grandfather.

I'm actually in the camp that feels that the "real" Schrade died in 2004. I know the products that came after were similar but the change was too abrupt to say that the line continued. Sure in years previous management and locations and even products changed but that was all gradual. There were always old timers in place who trained the newbies on how things were done, there were always old lines still being sold as new lines were introduced, all made on basically the same machines with modernization to those machines happening gradually, not all at once. It flowed. The change in 2004 was an abrupt cut. Not one single employee moved on, none of the equipment or production techniques were the same. There were no old templates and dies transferred over. Everything was done differently with all new parts, and there were definitely changes to the final product. To me it was just Schrade in name only with similarly designed products. I know technically there are definitely arguments to that reasoning, that's just how it feels in my gut.

Eric
 
afishhunter said:
Under contract, or under a different brand name?
If not under contract, and if under the Schrade name, you are in danger of patent and trademark infringment and fraud law suits.

Being the great grandson of Geo. Schrade does not give you the right to manufacture "Schrade" banded knives, any more than the descendents of R.E. Olds have the right to produce Oldsmobile automobiles, before or after GM retired the Oldsmobile name, or REO trucks ... or REO farm wagons, and other farm implements, for that matter.
Only the owners of a brand can legally use that brand name.

I must ask:
Not to be argumentative, but HOW are what you produce a "real Schrade"?
Are you in the original factory, using the same machines, laborers, and executives, from before your great grandfather retired?
Irrelevant, since you do not own the brands or intellectual rights.

Were Schrade knives "real" as the labor force, executive management, and the board of directors changed, as the original workers quit, retired, or died off, being replaced by new workers, or as the original machinery became worn out, unrepairable, and was replaced?

If I remember correctly, Schrade changed locations at least once when your great grandfather was in charge.
If the location matters, were the knives produced after the moves still a "real" Schrade?

If not "real" because the CEO/President isn't a descendent or blood related to your great grandfather, then the US, and post 1988 or earlier to 2004 Imperial, and Schrade Westholm I*XL knives made when David Swindon was at the helm, are not a "real" Schrade, either. Nor are the modern one hand openers that Schrade US contracted for in Asia, prior to 2004.

CASE knives has not been owned or controlled by the Case family, and has been owned by Zippo Lighters for over a generation.
I don't hear anyone claiming Case knives made over the last 25 years are not a "real" Case, because the company is owned by Zippo, and there isn't a Case family member in a management or executive position, nor on the board of Directors.

Remington sold their cutlery operation pre-WW2. Are Remington knives produced since not a "real" Remington?

The Schrade knives produced since 2004 are a "real" Schrade.
They are produced under contract for the only entity that can legally contract for knives using any of the multitude of brand names owned by Imperial Schrade, use the brand and model names, and use any unexpired patents held by Imperial Schrade prior to 2004, without paying a patent royalty.

A change in ownership does not make the products that come after "fakes".
Click to expand...
Wow, tell me where it really hurts. Was that rant necessary?
I do not make under contract but with my own hands and my own makers mark, WM SCHRADE.

To answer your question, and I disagree about your claim of not being argumentative, "HOW are [sic] what you produce a "real Schrade?" Well, I make it, can see it and touch it so it must be real. I know my pedigree and have nothing to prove. I just enjoy making knives and carrying on the legacy like three generations before me.

Incidentally, American Outdoor Brands are aware of my endeavors and sent representatives to my home to interview me about my great grandfather and they toured my shop. I spent two days with them and brought them to the Wawarsing Knife Museum which Eric graciously opened for a private tour.

I seriously doubt a one man shop such as I, am a threat to a corporation listed on the NYSE.

Have a good day.

Bill Schrade
 
Bill Schrade is the "Real Deal".
Aside from being the great-grandson of George Schrade (arguably the most influential person in the history of American cutlery) he is also a historian and talented knife maker in his own right.
Legal technicalities aside, If anyone in the world has the right to use the "Schrade" name, it would be Bill Schrade. And beyond all of this, he is a really good guy.
I would recommend listening to his wonderful family stories on "The Catch Bit Show" podcast.
Enclosed is a picture of one of Bill's hand-made knives shown below an original older variation. Both are sitting on a book titled "George Schrade and His Accomplishments to the Knife Industry" published in 1982.

Schrade Book Pull Balls (1139x1400).jpg
 
William Schrade said:
I do not make under contract but with my own hands and my own makers mark, WM SCHRADE.
Click to expand...
herder said:
I would recommend listening to his wonderful family stories on "The Catch Bit Show" podcast.
Click to expand...
Impeccable, appreciated, and "Must Listen"!!
It was nice hearing of your history, and current efforts Bill!!
And I am always grateful for the Catch Bit Show , Neal!! You and Mike
enlighten the Cutlery Story!!
 
ea42 said:
Steve he's just saying he's a "real" Schrade making actual "Schrade" knives as in the family name. He's got his own brand, William Schrade Cutlery, absolutely nothing to do with the old Schrade of NY. Actually he's got a lot more in common with the George Schrade Knife Co than Schrade Cut Co/Walden/Ellenville since that was his Great Grandfather.

I'm actually in the camp that feels that the "real" Schrade died in 2004. I know the products that came after were similar but the change was too abrupt to say that the line continued. Sure in years previous management and locations and even products changed but that was all gradual. There were always old timers in place who trained the newbies on how things were done, there were always old lines still being sold as new lines were introduced, all made on basically the same machines with modernization to those machines happening gradually, not all at once. It flowed. The change in 2004 was an abrupt cut. Not one single employee moved on, none of the equipment or production techniques were the same. There were no old templates and dies transferred over. Everything was done differently with all new parts, and there were definitely changes to the final product. To me it was just Schrade in name only with similarly designed products. I know technically there are definitely arguments to that reasoning, that's just how it feels in my gut.

Eric
Click to expand...
All exactly correct, Eric. And to be completely truthful, the quality of Walden and Ellenville Schrades gradually slipped over the decades from 1946 to 2004. I have handled many (more than 2000 Schrades, Schrade Waldens and Schrade CutCos) and I have seen this with my own eyes, not just someone else's opinion. Open an old pre-war Schrade and check the fit and finish and compare it to one made in the 70s, 80s, 90s or even in the 1960s and the differences are immediately apparent. As far as the Chinese sharades go I shan't comment although I do have a rather strong opinion and it is not just quality. Meanwhile, I give kudos to the gentleman who has carried on the George Schrade family trade and is doing it here in the U.S. with American labor. Just to kick the dead horse, all readers need to know that the George Schrade line of yore or present has absolutely nothing to do with Schrade CutCo, Schrade Walden, Imperial Schrade, or the sharades.
 
tongueriver said:
All exactly correct, Eric. And to be completely truthful, the quality of Walden and Ellenville Schrades gradually slipped over the decades from 1946 to 2004. I have handled many (more than 2000 Schrades, Schrade Waldens and Schrade CutCos) and I have seen this with my own eyes, not just someone else's opinion. Open an old pre-war Schrade and check the fit and finish and compare it to one made in the 70s, 80s, 90s or even in the 1960s and the differences are immediately apparent. As far as the Chinese sharades go I shan't comment although I do have a rather strong opinion and it is not just quality. Meanwhile, I give kudos to the gentleman who has carried on the George Schrade family trade and is doing it here in the U.S. with American labor. Just to kick the dead horse, all readers need to know that the George Schrade line of yore or present has absolutely nothing to do with Schrade CutCo, Schrade Walden, Imperial Schrade, or the sharades.
Click to expand...
ea42 said:
Steve he's just saying he's a "real" Schrade making actual "Schrade" knives as in the family name. He's got his own brand, William Schrade Cutlery, absolutely nothing to do with the old Schrade of NY. Actually he's got a lot more in common with the George Schrade Knife Co than Schrade Cut Co/Walden/Ellenville since that was his Great Grandfather.

I'm actually in the camp that feels that the "real" Schrade died in 2004. I know the products that came after were similar but the change was too abrupt to say that the line continued. Sure in years previous management and locations and even products changed but that was all gradual. There were always old timers in place who trained the newbies on how things were done, there were always old lines still being sold as new lines were introduced, all made on basically the same machines with modernization to those machines happening gradually, not all at once. It flowed. The change in 2004 was an abrupt cut. Not one single employee moved on, none of the equipment or production techniques were the same. There were no old templates and dies transferred over. Everything was done differently with all new parts, and there were definitely changes to the final product. To me it was just Schrade in name only with similarly designed products. I know technically there are definitely arguments to that reasoning, that's just how it feels in my gut.

Eric
Click to expand...
 
William Schrade said:
I'm the great grandson of George and been making real Schrades since 2012.
Click to expand...
I am honored to meet you, Bill Schrade.

Pre-2004 Schrade OT's are what got me hooked on traditional folders, with the 97OT being my favorite.

The Schrades of old rule. In my book anyways.
 
That Catch Bit Show, Episode 53 with William Schrade was a real treat for us all to be able to have that privilege to be able to listen to Bill.

To own a Knife made by Bill would be one of the most authentic Schrades one could ever be lucky enough to own, Bernard Levine's words "never mind the stamp, read the knife". I am sure high end collectors would queue to be able to converse with Bill and to handle a knife of his, and if they would ever be so lucky to be able to buy one.

It's also a great privilege for us to have Bill as a Bladeforum member.
 
ea42 said:
Steve he's just saying he's a "real" Schrade making actual "Schrade" knives as in the family name. He's got his own brand, William Schrade Cutlery, absolutely nothing to do with the old Schrade of NY. Actually he's got a lot more in common with the George Schrade Knife Co than Schrade Cut Co/Walden/Ellenville since that was his Great Grandfather.

I'm actually in the camp that feels that the "real" Schrade died in 2004. I know the products that came after were similar but the change was too abrupt to say that the line continued. Sure in years previous management and locations and even products changed but that was all gradual. There were always old timers in place who trained the newbies on how things were done, there were always old lines still being sold as new lines were introduced, all made on basically the same machines with modernization to those machines happening gradually, not all at once. It flowed. The change in 2004 was an abrupt cut. Not one single employee moved on, none of the equipment or production techniques were the same. There were no old templates and dies transferred over. Everything was done differently with all new parts, and there were definitely changes to the final product. To me it was just Schrade in name only with similarly designed products. I know technically there are definitely arguments to that reasoning, that's just how it feels in my gut.

Eric
Click to expand...
Here, Here! Spot on! What a privilege to have Bill Schrade posting on this forum. OH
 
I'm of the opinion that the knives made by Taylor Brands, or whoever owns the Schrade name now, are not a "real" Schrade. The products they make may look like Schrades, and have Schrade stamped on them, but they will never be the same to me. Ever.

It was a pleasure to meet Bill at one of the knife shows and see some of his display pieces...and even more enjoyable to hear some of his remembrances on the catchbit show.
 
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