New question on khukuris (?)

KHUKURI--"Ancient Curved Blade BIG Freakin Knife (dependin on whooya are!),used and abused as almost no other tool or weapon known to mankind..Often imitated..MORE often DUPLICATED but never sooo good as Produced By HI;UB--and our kamis in Nepal.."

I like that definition better.
 
Originally posted by razorblade00
KHUKURI--"Ancient Curved Blade BIG Freakin Knife (dependin on whooya are!),used and abused as almost no other tool or weapon known to mankind..Often imitated..MORE often DUPLICATED but never sooo good as Produced By HI;UB--and our kamis in Nepal.."

I like that definition better.
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Razor - your definition is more accurate :) - as I said, what I gave is its etymology - which is not a definition.

:)

cheers, B.
 
Originally posted by razorblade00
x-preacher here; love that word etymology stuff--life just got alot simpler when it got less complicated:eek: :confused: :D
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No criticism taken :) I was agreeing with you (for the most part).

You're an ex-preacher? You mean like a vicar? Just curiosity.

Ultimately, khukureee and knife are from the same root-word (which I think is interesting, though not really surprising) - which just 'means' "something sharp".

Where's Johan anyway - he's the one what got me started on this :eek: ;)

cheers, B.
 
X interdenominational charismatic..nothing nearly as humble and kindhearted as all that..When u get tired of your own hypocrisy..u see the light. I wish I coulda been a Mother Theresa..Feeding the hungry is OK no matter who it is..

Why u think I buy HI?? Feed a Kami..Hug your Mommy..and your Uncle Bill too..

I just studied a little greek and hebrew..opinion wasnt enuf..

Now I just listen to Metallica; GodSmack; Boston; Kenny Wayne Shepherd;etc..flip a few cards occasionally and try to find answers for myself; still "follow the sound " just a different "drummer"--but getting to the root of stuff still rox my mind.

Doesnt Lynn Thompson (OOOOPS) say somethin about the Greek Kopis and the Romans being possible inspirations for the KHUK?? At least he gave credit...Nice to meet ya B..Keep in touch, Brother
 
What a guy! Bet Beoram is a strong "C" in the DISC system of personality analysis... At least one-third of the population would say "Aw let's bury the topic an' have coffee/aspirin". But think how many juicy scientific/ethymological explanations would have gone lost if there were not critical analysts around! I think we've dredged far an' deep as it is, an' laid the cornerstone an' some solid foundation where it was needed. Can't do without that, can we, if we want to call ourselves expert on our chosen knife.

Makes me think: in my Afrikaans culture, what tragedy it would have been if we had accepted that our indigenous "herneuter" merely means "knife"! Well, I'm gonna take this thread from the top an' read it through again while I sip my coffee/aspirin to get the facts straight. Take me two days, I guess....

Don't get discouraged, JP! When the words don't come an' the screen remains blank for hours on end, it's tempting to say "Ah well, at least the photos are worth a thousand words!" Many of us readers go 'specially for the text!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Johan van Zyl
What a guy! Bet Beoram is a strong "C" in the DISC system of personality analysis... At least one-third of the population would say "Aw let's bury the topic an' have coffee/aspirin". But think how many juicy scientific/ethymological explanations would have gone lost if there were not critical analysts around! I think we've dredged far an' deep as it is, an' laid the cornerstone an' some solid foundation where it was needed. Can't do without that, can we, if we want to call ourselves expert on our chosen knife.
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Hi Johan - I don't know the DISC system of personality analysis, I'm afraid. I am an historical linguist by profession though ( http://www.cog.jhu.edu/grad-students/slade/ ) :).

Originally posted by Johan van Zyl
Makes me think: in my Afrikaans culture, what tragedy it would have been if we had accepted that our indigenous "herneuter" merely means "knife"! Well, I'm gonna take this thread from the top an' read it through again while I sip my coffee/aspirin to get the facts straight. Take me two days, I guess....
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I think the etymological angle is interesting. It doesn't tell us what an object is (as several have pointed out), but it is interesting to know that the name of khukuree comes from it's property of having a blade; it could be, for example, that it came from the word for 'banana', referring to the shape; or it derived from the name of the person who made the first khukuree; or referred to the materials or the process of making a khukuree; or was derived from the name of the region where khukurees were first made; etc., etc.

Johan - what is a herneuter? Have any photos? And do you know its etymology ;)

cheers, Ben.
 
Originally posted by razorblade00

Doesnt Lynn Thompson (OOOOPS) say somethin about the Greek Kopis and the Romans being possible inspirations for the KHUK?? At least he gave credit...Nice to meet ya B..Keep in touch, Brother
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There is a story about khukurees being derived from Greek kopis, but I don't know what the basis for the claim is. Alexander didn't make it anywhere near Nepal so far as I know. This would be interesting to find out more about sometime too....

B.
 
Brother B..I was just lookin at a catalogue and CS mentions it, anyway; Can I be HI's Resident Metalhead Necromancer??:eek:
 
Yeah, B, I know what you are - I read your profile. You were sent by Providence to answer the question on the origin of the word khukuri. The "C" type person in society should be more valued by all, 'cause he's the one who will work out the details of a job while the others are sitting around having pipe-dreams. He's the type who will take a minute contemplating the facts after being asked: "How do you do?" Don't be offended - society needs all four broad personality types, and each one is super in his own right. They each help make the world go round. Any guy who won't believe this statement is probably a "D". The "I" is the type who can tell you to jump in the lake, and you'd look forward to actually doing it. "S" is the dependable nerdy type who's nice to have around (most of the time).

Y' all: Don't take these comments to heart - although they come close to the truth, they are very mischievious!

I'll get the facts on the HERNEUTER & report here tomorrow.
 
OK, here's the gen on the herneuter before I have to go to class:

"Herneuter" knives were very popular indeed in the days of the pioneer Voortrekkers, who bought them and used them for everyday tasks. Their fame spread so that today these knives, if original, are in the "sought after" and even "famous" class.

I heard tell that these tools were so popular in the old days that if one farmer wanted to ask the other to show him his knife, he would use the word "herneuter" as if it merely meant "knife".

Herneuter knives were made at the old "Baviaanskloof" (Eng: "baboon canyon") mission station, which was the first mission station to be built in South Africa. It later came to be known as Genadendal (Eng: "mercy plain"), situated about 35 km to the north of Caledon, a town in the far south of S.A., in the old Cape Colony. The knives were made from about 1770 to 1840, and was one of the most important products to be made and sold by the inhabitants of the mission station, under the guidance of the missionary.

Now the part that esp. Beoram will enjoy: In eastern Germany there is a small town called Herrnhut. The congregation in Herrnhut sent members to southern Africa to help spread the Bible's message to the Hottentots (as they were then called), a brown-skinned indigenous people living in the Cape Colony. Having previously undergone training in the art of knifemaking at the famous knifemaking facility Neissers in Holland, missionary Kuhnel from Herrnhut started the business at Baviaanskloof. He trained the Hottentots and they made hunting knives, penknives, fruit knives, pruning knives, bread knives and table knives. The word "Hernnhutter knives" soon became "herneuters" in the vocabulary of the Afrikaans speaking people who actually used the knives daily. Some say the most widely used were the pruning knives, because winemaking was so extensive in the Cape Colony, and most of the clients who purchased these knives were farmers, esp wine farmers.

The "hallmark" on the knives was a small knife symbol stamped on the blade. I can't post a pic, but the knives look much like those used by the American pioneers and backwoodsmen to cut the patches for their Pennsylvania long rifles. I read an article on these olden day patch knives in a knife book and saw the pictures: looks much the same - rough and practical, but quality users-knives.

The reason for the business going on the blink in approx. 1840 was the big influx of cheaper Sheffield knives which flooded the market.

I heard a rumour that these knives were going to be made again, but I don't have any details yet. Whether at Genadendal or not, or whether as reproductions by high-tech cutlers, it'll never be the same.
 
Johan - I can post pics if you have any (I'd be interested to see); can one still find the old herneuter knives about?

Does herneuter sound like a meaningful word in Afrikaans? I'm just wondering is it the sort of 'woodchuck' case, where a foreign word was adapted to something which sounded like an Afrikaans word, or is it just an 'Afrikaans' pronunciation of Hernnhutter?

Here's another story like that, origin of the word 'dollar' (probably never thought about that one ;) ):

Low German daler, taler, from German Taler, short for Joachimstaler, after Joachimstal (Jáchymov), a town of northwest Czech Republic where similar coins were first minted.

So the word 'dollar' ultimately comes from the northwest part of the Czech republic. Funny thing language.

'Dollar' which is an English borrowing of a German adaptation and abbreviation of the name of a Slavic city where a type of silver coin was minted.

'Alcohol' an English borrowing of an Arabic borrowing of a Sumerian word.

;)

it's too late and I'm becoming incoherent.

B.
 
Hi Beoram. I'll answer your questions telegram-style for lack of time:

Only way I can get pics to you is if I airmail a photocopy. You want, then e-mail me your physical address. I'm johanz@glen.agric.za.

I've never seen an original herneuter, but then I don't get around too much. I think you might still get some if you're willing to pay and are at the right spot at the right moment.

Does herneuter sound like a meaningful word in Afrikaans? Definitely not. It is merely an Afrikaans pronunciation of Herrnhutter. Herrnhutter will have it own German meaning, which I don't know, 'cause mein Deutsch is nicht so gut, aber die sprache ist sehr schon.

I know the story about the thaler, 'cause my other hobby is numismatics. I'd drive you crazy if I start blabbing about my collection, an' the moderator will hurl me off the forum!

Interesting stuff, Beoram. Do we pronounce your alias "BORUM", or what? If I had a forum alias, it would be "BOERTJIE".

If you want me to airmail you the pic of herneuters, then could you send me, in return, the label off a GOLD DOLLAR cigarette pack, to put in my album with my gold dollar coin? How about that for a swap? (Don't get no Gold Dollar cigarettes here, worse luck!)

Upon editing, it struck me that forumites might not be allowed to use the forum to negotiate swaps. If so, my sincerest apologies to forumites and the moderator! My consolation is that Beoram is going to post my pic, which will then be to the advantage & benefit of all foumite knife-knuts.
 
That's what you get for going off topic, I guess. I'll be back on the forum on Monday to repair the damage. Got the same back thing as JP, which I've got to get seen to at the doc's, tho' I did'nt get it from carrier landings.

(Imagine pained-looking smiley - I can't seem to get them to work...)
 
Originally posted by Johan van Zyl
Hi Beoram. I'll answer your questions telegram-style for lack of time:

Only way I can get pics to you is if I airmail a photocopy. You want, then e-mail me your physical address. I'm johanz@glen.agric.za.

I've never seen an original herneuter, but then I don't get around too much. I think you might still get some if you're willing to pay and are at the right spot at the right moment.

Does herneuter sound like a meaningful word in Afrikaans? Definitely not. It is merely an Afrikaans pronunciation of Herrnhutter. Herrnhutter will have it own German meaning, which I don't know, 'cause mein Deutsch is nicht so gut, aber die sprache ist sehr schon.

I know the story about the thaler, 'cause my other hobby is numismatics. I'd drive you crazy if I start blabbing about my collection, an' the moderator will hurl me off the forum!

Interesting stuff, Beoram. Do we pronounce your alias "BORUM", or what? If I had a forum alias, it would be "BOERTJIE".

If you want me to airmail you the pic of herneuters, then could you send me, in return, the label off a GOLD DOLLAR cigarette pack, to put in my album with my gold dollar coin? How about that for a swap? (Don't get no Gold Dollar cigarettes here, worse luck!)

Upon editing, it struck me that forumites might not be allowed to use the forum to negotiate swaps. If so, my sincerest apologies to forumites and the moderator! My consolation is that Beoram is going to post my pic, which will then be to the advantage & benefit of all foumite knife-knuts.
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Hi Johan -

It sounds like a bit of bother for getting a herneuter pic - I'll try to see what I can come up with here. (I don't know GOLD DOLLAR cigarettes - who makes them? - I'll keep my eye out).

Interesting stuff - Herrnhutter in German is probably a name, the first bit 'Herrn' is "man", 'hutter' I'm not sure about...'hatter', 'hut-maker'? Nothing that jumps out at very sensible, but again it's probably a name which has nothing to do with knives, just a family name and/or geographic name.

BEORAM - hmm, how to pronounce it. 'Bay-uh-rahm' (with the second syllable very reduced, so that it's almost just 'Bay-rahm'). It's my strange mixed heoric creation - BEO from Beowulf and RAM from Rama (the hero of the Indian epic the Ramayana). What does BOERTJIE mean? (Something to do with Boers I'm guessing - TJIE isn't a diminutive by any chance, is it? [that would give something like 'little Boer'] probably not).

cheers, B.
 
Originally posted by razorblade00
Brother B..I was just lookin at a catalogue and CS mentions it, anyway; Can I be HI's Resident Metalhead Necromancer??:eek:
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CS=Cold Steel? It would be interesting to know where that story comes from (Uncle Bill mentions it somewhere too, I think it's on the Khukuri FAQ page).

The 'HI Resident Magician and Loremaster' is sort of an inhouse joke. I did up a 'Cantina photo' a while back (I'll have to try to dig it up again sometime) which Uncle Bill showed to Pala and when Pala asked how I did it, Uncle replied 'he knows magic tricks', thus the 'magician' bit. Loremaster is just from contributing an odd assortment of obscure information to the forum.

Still not quite sure what an X-preacher is...something to do with 'straight-edge' culture?

--Brother B.
 
Thats exactly what it is.
Im a left over wash-up from a strait-laced culture.
I cant even get my own life straight; why try to tell other people how to do it??
This may be my last post on Blade Foruns.
As I sit alone for 36 hours on the weekend; stare at a tv; look at old knives and other dangerous objects and try to figure it all out..I atill get nowhere.. Thank You all so much for yor friendship. Razorblade00:(
 
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