New Rules for the sale section:

[hardheart]

Everybody's version of "fair" is different.

Obviously, since it is seen as so unfair to request that the Busse secondary market receive it's own sub-forum. I have no problems following Spark's new rules, or posting in new forums Spark might create. I'm not the one resistant to having things change.

 

[Jaxx]

Obviously, since it is seen as so unfair to request that the Busse secondary market receive it's own sub-forum. I have no problems following Spark's new rules, or posting in new forums Spark might create. I'm not the one resistant to having things change.

This splitting of BusseCombat/SRKW/ScrapYard from everything else production definitely falls under the "Us & Them" issue. Personally, I feel that we all should share a For Sale Exchange or we ALL should have sub-forums exchanges. There's a lot of Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. always for sale too. But...What if I have a mixed bag of stuff to sell? Would I then have to open 2 or more threads, 1 for each company's item that I wish to sell? This ALMOST feels like descrimination by "you" against "us". Did we all not pay the same dues to be a member here? Why can't each person buy and sell and trade and talk up whatever type or brand of knives as they wish without having to squabble over "territory"??? Because it IS Spark's house, and we all have to learn how to SHARE space here instead of trying to divvy up the place.

 

[Pietrzakp]

My $.02

I'm glad this issue was brought up, personally, i think 72 hours is too long. I would support a compromise, 36-48 hours?

 

[Jaxx]

My $.02

I'm glad this issue was brought up, personally, i think 72 hours is too long. I would support a compromise, 36-48 hours?

+1.
Within 36 hours, I found my sale thread back on page 4, and a far ways down THAT page. I want to sell my items, not feel like my hands are tied because I'm willing to put in extra effort to make the sale, but not wanting to get locked down or suspended for breaking or even BENDING the rules set forth by others in charge here. I just pulled the thread, because what's the point? no one goes past 3 usually anyway, and with 36 hours to go until another 'free bump' I'd be back to... 8? It's like a tomb in there now... Did someone install electronic crickets recently? I never noticed that sound in there before... :yawn:
Thanks for reading,
Jaxx

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Jaxx, you should realize that a lot of people feel bad about that. Even the non-Busse people who have been feeling pushed to the back pages by the flood of Busse knives up front. Maybe you do need a separate sales forum, so everyone gets a better shot at page 1 or at least page 2 ...

I don't like the concept of separate brand sales forums, because it makes it harder to browse for what's interesting, to keep up on the market and prices. It's not just Busse; maybe there are so many people on Bladeforums generally out there selling their knives.

I wonder if we have stats available on how busy the Exchange area has become?

 

[Jaxx]

Jaxx, you should realize that a lot of people feel bad about that. Even the non-Busse people who have been feeling pushed to the back pages by the flood of Busse knives up front. Maybe you do need a separate sales forum, so everyone gets a better shot at page 1 or at least page 2 ...

I don't like the concept of separate brand sales forums, because it makes it harder to browse for what's interesting, to keep up on the market and prices. It's not just Busse; maybe there are so many people on Bladeforums generally out there selling their knives.

I wonder if we have stats available on how busy the Exchange area has become?

I don't want it split up either, your reason the main one for me too...but a slightly faster rotation might pick things back up a bit. I'd like to try one or the other... Either every 24hrs. a bump, with NO chat, or 72 hrs. but a little chitchat... 72hrs. AND no extra chat, well now it's kinda like a tomb in there. Just a thought.

 

[Ken C.]

+1.
Within 36 hours, I found my sale thread back on page 4, and a far ways down THAT page. I want to sell my items, not feel like my hands are tied because I'm willing to put in extra effort to make the sale, but not wanting to get locked down or suspended for breaking or even BENDING the rules set forth by others in charge here. I just pulled the thread, because what's the point? no one goes past 3 usually anyway, and with 36 hours to go until another 'free bump' I'd be back to... 8? It's like a tomb in there now... Did someone install electronic crickets recently? I never noticed that sound in there before... :yawn:
Thanks for reading,
Jaxx

Now you are getting a little taste of what the non-Busse sellers had to deal with on a daily basis. How could they compete with 10 people selling Busse knives when their buddies bump the threads every hour with praise for the knife and discussion? 72 hours before you can bump up the thread is very reasonable considering the vast amount of Busse knives for sale every day. You'll have to deal with it like everyone else does now but if you choose to pull your sales and not exhibit some patience then that's your choice. I feel it's a good compromise considering it's a privilege to sell here, not a right.

 

[Cougar Allen]

I just pulled the thread, because what's the point? no one goes past 3 usually anyway,

How did you arrive at the conclusion no one usually goes past page 3?

When I follow a forum I read all new posts, or at least scan all the thread titles to see if I want to read the thread. I don't know what other people do....

 

[DaveH]

Edit: The BTT/chat rules seems to have improved things of late, IMO.

 

[bjjzak]

Could be worse fellows. I belong to a forum in canada that very closely parallels this one. They solved the BTT / bump posting issue by shutting all of the exchange posts down to everyone but the origional poster. There was a prior standing rule of 1 BTT every 7 days, but people kept doing the "pm / e-mail sent" thing to keep the post up top. So now the only way to communicate is through PM or e-mail, and no incidental bumping of posts. Only the origional poster or a mod can edit a post.

It is Spark's forum, and he's trying to do his best. If you dissagree, make a counter point via pm or email and give it your best sales pitch. Yes, once every 24 was nice, but mod's have lives too, and riding shotgun on a forum is sometimes "entertaining". It could and can be worse!

 

[Ken C.]

Edit: The BTT/chat rules seems to have improved things of late, IMO.

I agree. It does look like it. It seems that a few stragglers have tried to stir the pot and make it their agenda to skirt around the rules. They have been dealt with I'm sure. This can work. Change is not always a bad thing when in the end it benefits everyone who share the same privileges. It will take some getting used to for those who were accustomed to the old ways but I think they will see that it isn't as bad as they make it out to be.

 

[Tony G]

After dealing with income tax law for the past 25 years, this 24 to 72 hour rule is a lot like the gratuitous income tax provisions forced upon us by our congress. The similarity is that they do not enforce the rules that are in place and in order to remedy the problems caused by poor enforcement they make more rules. It is my opinion that BF could have simply enforced the rules it had and it would have been likely that no more restrictive rules would have been necessary.

I think you should go back and try that and if that doesn't work try 48 hours.

Best Regards,
Tony G

 

[Azis]

I follow the sales areas several times a day, I have not noticed much of a change

 

[Guyon]

Now you are getting a little taste of what the non-Busse sellers had to deal with on a daily basis. How could they compete with 10 people selling Busse knives when their buddies bump the threads every hour with praise for the knife and discussion?

More "us versus them." Ken, are you suggesting that "non-Busse" people seldom had any so-called "buddies" who bumped threads with comments?

I still do not understand the logic behind jumping immediately up to 72 hours. Enforcing the rules across the board at 24 hours would have been most reasonable. Extending the bump rule to 48 would have been more acceptable. 72 hours is riduculous. By the time you can bump, you're going to be on page 6 or 7. Folks who go Gold in order to be able to sell and trade (and I'm not counting myself in this group, though I do sell occasionally) are going to eventually seek other places to sell. Lost revenue for the site in the long run is how I see it playing out.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I still do not understand the logic behind jumping immediately up to 72 hours. Enforcing the rules across the board at 24 hours would have been most reasonable. Extending the bump rule to 48 would have been more acceptable. 72 hours is riduculous. By the time you can bump, you're going to be on page 6 or 7.

Let me try this one more time. Spark is not trying to make it hard for you to sell knives. He would like everyone to have an equal chance to do that. He is trying out a change in the rules to address certain perceived problems.

It is not "us versus them". The rules apply to everyone. Or are you suggesting that Busse sellers were able to secure a first page advantage by disproportionately bending the old rules?

Who is going to be on page 6 or 7? Everyone is supposed to get the same chance to show their knives, so sometimes it's you and sometimes it's me who cycles to the end of the line.

As far as enforcing rules goes, how about we charge a little extra for the privilege of selling to actually pay the moderators for spending more time online to enforce the rules? As it is, it is a voluntary unpaid position, and checking every post just doesn't happen.

You see something you think's unfair, report it. Hit the little triangle with an exclamation point in it and report the violation. Then the mods can deal with it.

Folks who go Gold in order to be able to sell and trade (and I'm not counting myself in this group, though I do sell occasionally) are going to eventually seek other places to sell. Lost revenue for the site in the long run is how I see it playing out.

What folks? The ones your friends have been bumping to page 6 or 7 who now have a shot at page 1 or 2? Those folks are happy with the new deal.

 

[Azis]

Guyon, You have a point, in any business the long term has to be considered

 

[Guyon]

Who is going to be on page 6 or 7? Everyone is supposed to get the same chance to show their knives, so sometimes it's you and sometimes it's me who cycles to the end of the line.

Let me make this simple for you.

For Sale threads, when left to linger for 3 days, are floating down the Page 5 River with a lot of threads that are actually defunct. Why? The knives in many of those threads have already been sold. The 24-hour BTTT was what allowed sellers to keep their threads off page 5 (or 6 or 7) and give them the appearance of a sale that is still active.

That's why I don't support the 72 hour rule. It has nothing to do with "Us" or "Them" or "friends." It has everything to do with simple logistics. I maintain 48 hours would have been a more reasonable increase. Why the jump from 1 to 3 days?

 

[Guyon]

You write this:

It is not "us versus them".

And then you write this:

What folks? The ones your friends have been bumping to page 6 or 7 who now have a shot at page 1 or 2? Those folks are happy with the new deal.

Which side of your mouth will you talk out of next?

 

[Spark]

Let me make this simple for you.

For Sale threads, when left to linger for 3 days, are floating down the Page 5 River with a lot of threads that are actually defunct. Why? The knives in many of those threads have already been sold. The 24-hour BTTT was what allowed sellers to keep their threads off page 5 (or 6 or 7) and give them the appearance of a sale that is still active.

That's why I don't support the 72 hour rule. It has nothing to do with "Us" or "Them" or "friends." It has everything to do with simple logistics. I maintain 48 hours would have been a more reasonable increase. Why the jump from 1 to 3 days?

If someone wants to bump their threads more than every 72 hours, then they should either reply with a lower price or new information. Otherwise the rules are the rules. If the seller wants a sale faster than 72 hours, he's got to adjust for the market. Otherwise it doesn't matter how many bumps he gets.

 

[Ken C.]

More "us versus them." Ken, are you suggesting that "non-Busse" people seldom had any so-called "buddies" who bumped threads with comments?

From what I have observed over the course of the past year is that Busse fans bump threads of Busse sellers more often than the non-Busse seller. While the non-Busse sellers have their threads bumped it is not in the same manner. I'm not saying it didn't happen but Busse fans bumped Busse sellers and started discussions of the knives. Non-Busse sellers had their thread bumped more often due to legitimate questions posted to the seller regarding their knife. No praising of the knives or seller. No "WOW! That knife rocks! I've had mine for 6 months, blah, blah, blah" posts. If they did exist, and I'm sure they do, they were missed due to those types of posts being few and far between.

If you want to continue with the "us vs. them" rather than view the big picture that's fine but that attitude is not going to resolve anything. At best it will make it worse. I need not remind you that these new rules apply to everyone, myself included, and are not meant to single out anyone group but to level the playing field for all. Yes, it is unfortunate that Busse sellers are catching the brunt of it, but it has brough to light an issue that needed attention. I stated earlier on that I was for a Busse Only sale forum but the new rules make sense and should be allowed to work. I'm not for it at this time. We all need to sit back and take off the blinders and stop making this an "us vs. them" issue. It is about what is fair for all involved in selling on this forum.