new sharp toy, need recommendation on boiled linseed oil

[Belgrath04]

The danger is with what are termed "Drying Oils" ... Linseed, Tung, Walnut, Safflower.
These oils react with oxygen to form polymer chains (polymerize) and harden over time.
Non-Drying Oils such as mineral oil, vegitable oil, canola oil etc. do not react and will stay oily and do not undergo the heat producing reaction.

As the Drying Oil react with oxygen, that oxidation reaction produces heat. When the heat is concentrated ... wadded up or covered with other material the heat can buid to levels that will ignite the oil. At this point you basically have a giant candle, with the rag as the wick.

The rag should be laid out flat, hung over a fence etc. where the heat can not build up. As an alternative the rag can be sealed in an air tight container (no a normal trashcan is not air tight) or left submerged under water. Anything that prevents oxygen from getting to the oil will stop the reaction and thus no heat. However, no reaction means the oil will not dry and when air is reintroduced the reaction will resume.

The danger is much more significant with "Boiled" oils and varnish-oil combinations where other ingrediants have been added to speed up the process. Same quantity of heat is generated but boiled will all happen in a day versus spread out over a week with raw.

 

[Remzy]

So Belgrath, a rag full of raw linseed oil is way less prone to self ignite since it generate heat way more slowly, right?

great post by the way.

 

[druid189]

Its not just linseed oil. The oil based stains also. Probably because they contain linseed oil.
With the construction back ground I come from I don't even think about it, all my oil stained rags, sponge brushes ect, get disposed of properly. I do the same with varnishes ect.

Its just a good habit to get into. The fire danger is not exaggerated, its very real. I have seen it happen more than once.


Thanks Druid, for bringing this up.:thumbup:

You are welcome sir.

On a side note, I took a ride out to Home Depot tonight to pick up the BLO and turpentine for my recipe. I saw the very Teak Oil as was warned of in the second video. I read the back and it's just as stated on the video..."spontaneous combustion risk" but NO mention of containing BLO [specifically]. I read the can twice....it's just not there.

So buyer beware.....ANY type of refinishing oil should be inspected for this type of hazard warning/label.

 

[druid189]

So Belgrath, a rag full of raw linseed oil is way less prone to self ignite since it generate heat way more slowly, right?

great post by the way.

I guess "sort of" would be how I read his answer.

I read his answer to be "both will spontaneously ignite....but boiled does it in hours, whereas raw may take weeks."

To me, a spontaneous event - no matter how long it takes to occur - is still a huge danger.

 

[Dadgummit]

I am thinking that any rags I use just need to be soaked in a bucket full of water and dish detergant to both break up the oil and clean the rags for their next use.

 

[druid189]

I am thinking that any rags I use just need to be soaked in a bucket full of water and dish detergant to both break up the oil and clean the rags for their next use.

I guess that would work ok....but so would just spreading out the rags on concrete so they dry quickly. My dad did that for years without issue...but he'd rinse them in the spill sink with some powdered Dutch Boy hand soap before spreading them out.

 

[mafiace]

I wonder if tung oil could be a suitable alternative...

 

[The cow]

I use tung oil. Really brought out the grain for curly maple. Bought way too much of it so I've been using it on all my woods. Works well enough for me. Only problem is that it leaves a very strong smell for a good while.

 

[Dadgummit]

I made up a double batch of this stuff and here are my thoughts.

I bought an empty 1 gal paint can at lowes, put it on my camp stove outside and melted the beeswax. The nice honey smell of the wax attracted no less than 10 bees which were buzzing around. Once the was was melted I added the BLO and Turpentine then I took it off the heat since I read it is bad to heat it too hot.

Then I started stirring and stirring and stirring. Man this stuff cools down slowly!! after about 30 minutes it slowly turned from the dark brown color of the melted wax to more of a yellow. That is when I finally stopped mixing. I am not sure if you are required to mix it for that long but I didn't want it to separate.

The next morning it set up harder than other people mentioned. It is not like a pudding consistency it is more like cold butter (perhaps it needed more Turpentine, I was about 2 oz shy of the 16 needed). Also, in the can, it has a prominent turpentine odor.

I figured I would try it on a new tool handle that I burnt with a torch for that nice aged look. the wood sucked the wax in pretty quickly so I added a second coat which I sealed in with a heat gun. It worked out great, nice and smooth, no stickyness or residue at all. Also the turp smell is completely gone leaving the nice beeswax scent.

I then tried it on an old eucalyptus bench on my front porch that is a little worse for wear. here i found that the parts that still had paint did not accept the wax at all but the exposed wood took it in like a vacuum (yeah, I should have thought of this ahead of time!). so I will have to sand it down before trying again.

In all it is good stuff, I am greatful for this forum thread for mentioning it.

*Edit. Forgot to mention that if you forget to wear gloves when you use this your hands will smell like beeswax no matter how many times you wash.

 

[druid189]

I made up a double batch of this stuff and here are my thoughts.

I bought an empty 1 gal paint can at lowes, put it on my camp stove outside and melted the beeswax. The nice honey smell of the wax attracted no less than 10 bees which were buzzing around. Once the was was melted I added the BLO and Turpentine then I took it off the heat since I read it is bad to heat it too hot.

Then I started stirring and stirring and stirring. Man this stuff cools down slowly!! after about 30 minutes it slowly turned from the dark brown color of the melted wax to more of a yellow. That is when I finally stopped mixing. I am not sure if you are required to mix it for that long but I didn't want it to separate.

The next morning it set up harder than other people mentioned. It is not like a pudding consistency it is more like cold butter (perhaps it needed more Turpentine, I was about 2 oz shy of the 16 needed). Also, in the can, it has a prominent turpentine odor.

I figured I would try it on a new tool handle that I burnt with a torch for that nice aged look. the wood sucked the wax in pretty quickly so I added a second coat which I sealed in with a heat gun. It worked out great, nice and smooth, no stickyness or residue at all. Also the turp smell is completely gone leaving the nice beeswax scent.

I then tried it on an old eucalyptus bench on my front porch that is a little worse for wear. here i found that the parts that still had paint did not accept the wax at all but the exposed wood took it in like a vacuum (yeah, I should have thought of this ahead of time!). so I will have to sand it down before trying again.

In all it is good stuff, I am greatful for this forum thread for mentioning it.

*Edit. Forgot to mention that if you forget to wear gloves when you use this your hands will smell like beeswax no matter how many times you wash.

Yeah, it does take a while to cool down and I believe it's the heat transfer between the material and the metal can. It goes back and forth...hot can heats the material, keeping the can hot, eventually dissipating because of the stirring. The turpentine smell is present when you open the can but evaporates away when applied and sealed.

As to the consistency...yeah, it's likely the lack of the 2oz of turpentine that made it harder than normal. I mean it's not like "pudding, pudding"....but it shouldn't be anywhere near as hard s normal wax. Stiff peanut butter might be a more appropriate description.....

This stuff works equally well on fabrics and leather as well. If you have a cloth bag you like to take into the woods [like a canvas haversack, etc.] smear it on and heat it like you did with the wood. It's great stuff.

A helpful hint would be to write the recipe and directions on the lid of the can [use a black sharpie] so that your children can replicate it when you are gone.

You're welcome and I'm glad you like the recipe.

 

[garry3]

This company is also offering a turpentine beeswax formula. Apparently it is pure and the real thing. Its not cheap and I have always been a used coffee can kind of guy. But it does sound like a good product and consumers could do much worse.

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[druid189]

interesting, if not pricey. Not trying to poopoo your post because all information is a good thing......

This company is also offering a turpentine beeswax formula. Apparently it is pure and the real thing. Its not cheap and I have always been a used coffee can kind of guy. But it does sound like a good product and consumers could do much worse.

.......but........

That 150 ml container is about 1.25 pounds....for about $21.

My recipe yields about twice that:

1 lb of beeswax + 16 oz of liquid = about 2 pounds of material ................... for the same/similar cost...

Turpentine - $8.97 for 32 oz [you only need 1/4 the can]
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Green-Turpentine-QKGT75004/203713875

BLO - $7.98 for 1 Qt. [also 32 oz] and you only need 1/4 the can]
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Boiled-Linseed-Oil-QLO45/202249497

1 lb beeswax - $12.99
http://www.amazon.com/Stakich-Pure-...8&qid=1427178309&sr=8-5&keywords=1+lb+beeswax

Total $29.94

.....so for about $8 more you get an additional pound of material.

Add another pound of beeswax and double that once more.

Now let's test my mathematics .....

To use the entire liquid contents, you need 4 lbs of beeswax....so:

4lb wax.......$51.96
Turpentine.....$8.97
BLO..............$7.98

So a grand total of about 8 pounds of waterproof material is about $68.91

versus

3.75 pounds of the UK paste for almost the same cost......

mine's way cheaper in quantity

 

[garry3]

interesting, if not pricey. Not trying to poopoo your post because all information is a good thing......



.......but........

That 150 ml container is about 1.25 pounds....for about $21.

My recipe yields about twice that:

1 lb of beeswax + 16 oz of liquid = about 2 pounds of material ................... for the same/similar cost...

Turpentine - $8.97 for 32 oz [you only need 1/4 the can]
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Green-Turpentine-QKGT75004/203713875

BLO - $7.98 for 1 Qt. [also 32 oz] and you only need 1/4 the can]
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Boiled-Linseed-Oil-QLO45/202249497

1 lb beeswax - $12.99
http://www.amazon.com/Stakich-Pure-...8&qid=1427178309&sr=8-5&keywords=1+lb+beeswax

Total $29.94

.....so for about $8 more you get an additional pound of material.

Add another pound of beeswax and double that once more.

Now let's test my mathematics .....

To use the entire liquid contents, you need 4 lbs of beeswax....so:

4lb wax.......$51.96
Turpentine.....$8.97
BLO..............$7.98

So a grand total of about 8 pounds of waterproof material is about $68.91

versus

3.75 pounds of the UK paste for almost the same cost......

mine's way cheaper in quantity

No poo-poo!
I just posted it because I thought it was interesting that they are selling it pre-mixed. Not a bad marketing strategy for a product that has been a standard for generations. Its not like they invented it.
Its just a sign of the times. Easier to go buy it premixed, easier to go buy a new axe rather than replace a handle ect.

But I have to take my hat off to them for not trying to sell a proprietary mystery formula. It is what it is. And its a good product that should fill a niche. Not everyone walks on wood shavings in there garage and saves old coffee cans and visits the "Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum".

 

[Deoje]

Not everyone walks on wood shavings in there garage and saves old coffee cans and visits the "Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum".

Thank goodness that some people do though. There are always such good and interesting posts here.

 

[Dadgummit]

No poo-poo!
I just posted it because I thought it was interesting that they are selling it pre-mixed. Not a bad marketing strategy for a product that has been a standard for generations. Its not like they invented it.
Its just a sign of the times. Easier to go buy it premixed, easier to go buy a new axe rather than replace a handle ect.

But I have to take my hat off to them for not trying to sell a proprietary mystery formula. It is what it is. And its a good product that should fill a niche. Not everyone walks on wood shavings in there garage and saves old coffee cans and visits the "Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum".

When I was looking through the garage for an empty coffee can my 8 year old daughter said "Wow, Coffee used to come in cans"?

 

[Dadgummit]

As to the consistency...yeah, it's likely the lack of the 2oz of turpentine that made it harder than normal. I mean it's not like "pudding, pudding"....but it shouldn't be anywhere near as hard s normal wax. Stiff peanut butter might be a more appropriate description.....

I got some more turp, maybe I will just pop the can back on the camp stove to melt and then add it. When I originally shook the first can it felt more than half full, maybe I am just an optimist!

 

[garry3]

I got some more turp, maybe I will just pop the can back on the camp stove to melt and then add it. When I originally shook the first can it felt more than half full, maybe I am just an optimist!

It will work. I usually just use linseed oil and wax. I never followed any recipe, just add more oil or wax to get it the way you want.

I think you just happened to get some very aromatic bees wax. It comes in a lot of color variations and seems to be as individual as honey. I just came across some I had stashed for better than ten years, it has just a hint of honey scent(age doesn't seem to matter).

 

[HomeBru]

As for staining the handle, render birch bark for its oil. stain it with the oil. You can actually stop there.

BUT

After staining I use the best recipe ever.......


1 lb pure/filtered Beeswax
8 oz turpentine
8 oz boiled linseed oil

melt the wax in a clean metal coffee can [low heat].

add the turp and the linseed oil. Stir well.

Carefully remove from heat and stir until it begins to solidify. Once it does, let it completely set up [usually overnight]. It will turn into what looks like a thick pudding in consistency.

It is a complete waterproofing agent for almost EVERYTHING. Works on cloth, leather, wood and metal.

for cloth, leather and wood....rub a liberal amount of the creme into the item using a cloth or paintbrush and then hit it with a heat gun on LOW. Once it absorbs, you are pretty much done.

For wood, you can do it twice [that's the most I've ever done on wood]. It's awesome stuff. really.

Coincidentally, this paste will last [and work] for 20 years in that can if you keep the lid on it.

EDIT: I want to remind everyone on the boiled linseed oil - it has the spontaneous combustion issue and if you use a rag to apply it, dispose of it [the rag] properly

I've never used rags to apply this, I've always used a paintbrush or latex gloves [well....old Nitrile gloves back in the day] - Don't want anyone's place burning down.

THIS^

Awesome stuff. I have a mason jar full that I put on tool handles, blades, and anything else that needs a bit of a coating.

 

[jp_over]

Is no one using the pine tar? I need to pick up an empty paint can to do my "cooking" but I have all the ingredients now and just need to make a final decision on the "recipe".

 

[druid189]

I got some more turp, maybe I will just pop the can back on the camp stove to melt and then add it. When I originally shook the first can it felt more than half full, maybe I am just an optimist!

that'll work just fine.

Is no one using the pine tar? I need to pick up an empty paint can to do my "cooking" but I have all the ingredients now and just need to make a final decision on the "recipe".

TBH, I've only heard of, but never used the Pine tar method. I'm not knocking it at all, I just have zero personal experience with it. Mostly because....this recipe of mine does everything I need. Kind of an...."if it ain't broke....." way of thinking LOL



One thing that might be worth mentioning is the "grade" of the beeswax used in my recipe. I use "cosmetic grade" beeswax.....which I believe the only difference is that it's 100% natural and filtered. I'd surmise that there's probably, at least a slight, difference in "unfiltered" wax. It might be a "harder" wax if there's any amount of honeycomb or other pollutants in it.....I'm not sure though. Any beekeepers here to confirm or denounce? LOL......