The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
If wear resistance is close to be all, end all, then people won't be going crazy over CPM 3V or Cruwear, on folders. It's all about balance. Everyone has their preference, I prefer something that has higher toughness. All else being equal(big caveat here), smaller carbides + lower carbide % = less chipping. That's what people wants Cruwear for(look at people going crazy over cruwear sprints).No., wear resistance isn't the be all, end all. But it comes close. Damned close! I wouldn't want a knife that I had to resharpen every few weeks.
Larrin, thanks for the analysis, sir. Excellent,as usual!
So it seems like this steel may be tougher than CPM 154? Due to the finer carbides.I feel thats the wrong way to look at it.
There are advantages to this as well.
If we had the steel available for a Micrograph we would see finer Carbides than CPM154, Sg2 and S35VN.
This SPY27 is also capable of higher hardness.
The idea with finer Carbides and lower volume is in most cases it leads to superior edge Stability if the heat treatment and Geometry is correct.
All this meaning in use the user will experience less chipping and rolling and a wider audience can use thinner edge geometry to enhance the edge holding rather than just carbides. Another benifit is folks that don't believe they need diamond for super steel will not have as much detriment to edge performance using a wider range of abrasives.
What we may see is that in real world folks will experience More edge holding with this steel over s35vn do to being able to make the edge sharper to start with and more stability.
If wear resistance is close to be all, end all, then people won't be going crazy over CPM 3V or Cruwear, on folders. It's all about balance. Everyone has their preference, I prefer something that has higher toughness. All else being equal(big caveat here), smaller carbides + lower carbide % = less chipping. That's what people wants Cruwear for(look at people going crazy over cruwear sprints).
Also % carbide isn't be all end all for wear resistance too. Maybe slightly lower carbide % but with higher hardness = more wear resistance while being easier to sharpen due to less MC? There are many variables to consider, so i wouldn't make judgement based on just one dimension IMO.
I agree with your points, overall.
It depends on what you use a knife for.
I use a knife strictly for cutting. No prying, batonning etc, so "toughness" is meaningless to me.
If I were using my knife, like a soldier, for prying the lids off of ammunition crates, toughness would be number one concern.
I guess I was probably remiss in my earlier post for not pointing out that edge holding is my be all, end all, because of the tasks that I use a knife for.
Remember, Sal is also a smart businessman, I'm guessing there's definitely a benefit to him too. So far the two steels this is being compared to the most are S35 VN and CPM154, both of which are known for being easy to machine and finish, while having well balanced properties. If Spyderco is making this their baseline steel, they probably see a benefit in being able to reduce machine time, or reduce wear on tools, while maintaining their reputation for quality.
That, and they get to sell all the same knives to the same people again, because it's a new steel, and making the same knife in different steels is a big part of their business.
Huh.
It's cool that they have their own CPM steel now, but it doesn't seem that different from S35VN for me to get excited over it. I would have imagined that if Spyderco was to commission runs of a custom alloy from Crucible, then they would be nerding out and pushing the envelope a bit more, but I suppose this alloy will be more workable/accessible and they will be able to sell enough to justify the run costs. Maybe it'll become a new standard steel for them?...
I'd buy a SPY27 Spyderco if I like the design and it happened to come in this steel, but otherwise I'm not going to be seeking this stuff out just to try it. I'm happy for my fellow enthusiasts who are excited, though.
@ShannonSteelLabs
@Sal Glesser
Cost of insane because of the special process it needs for nitriding the powder before HIP. so no production company will touch it due to cost per lbs even though every one that has used it loves it. So it's basically exclusive to custom knives.
So, give a guy this a knife in SPY27 and S35VN and a ceramic stone and I guarantee if it's heat treated properly the SPY27 will get sharper for that guy. In fact, in his experience the SPY27 may hold a longer edge real world because it's starting sharper to begin with for em.
Toughness is important even for moderate use .I agree with your points, overall.
It depends on what you use a knife for.
I use a knife strictly for cutting. No prying, batonning etc, so "toughness" is meaningless to me.
If I were using my knife, like a soldier, for prying the lids off of ammunition crates, toughness would be number one concern.
I guess I was probably remiss in my earlier post for not pointing out that edge holding is my be all, end all, because of the tasks that I use a knife for.
It's cool that you're stoked for it. I won't apologize for understanding what might be neat about it and still not being personally excited. Not everyone is a professional sharpener/knifemaker.
Minor improvements in toughness/edge stability/grain structure are neat, but I don't think I'd notice those benefits over S35VN the way you can notice something like Maxamet over S35VN. I'm open to Spyderco proving me wrong with an absolutely stellar implementation of it, though.
That's not really true any longer - Quiet Carry has the Drift at just over $300. Yes, that's not cheap, but it's just a bit more than what higher-end ZTs in 20CV cost, without the economies of scale that ZT has.
I would guess the limiting factor with Vanax is availability in the quantities that Spyderco or ZT would need. Other than that, the difference in price between M390 and Vanax, for the amount of steel needed for a folding knife, is a few bucks.
Sorry, but I can't get excited about a steel where the main advantage is making it easier to sharpen for people who refuse to move to diamond stones.