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New Spyderco-Exclusive Steel CPM SPY27

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Larrin, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. Stays Sharp

    Stays Sharp

    Nov 21, 2013
    What a bunch of whine and cheese on this thread. Spyderco is one of the few companies that focus on steels and push for variety/development. Been that way. Boohoo they may (or may not) make some money for their business. Get over it.
     
    Kaizen1, nsm and wackafew like this.
  2. Velitrius

    Velitrius Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    Yeah, I LOL'd when I read that. Pretty much what I was thinking whilst reading through the thread.

    Myself, I'm going to wait until I have a knife in this steel to decide what I think about it.

    I'll see if I can tell the difference between SPY27 and the myriad of other steels I have hanging around here.

    Bet good money I can't.
     
    Kaizen1 likes this.
  3. ryanh121

    ryanh121

    278
    Nov 3, 2009
    Very interesting discussion, guys. Thanks. I can’t wait to see what BBB turns out.
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  4. dirc

    dirc

    Jan 31, 2018
    I for one just ignore the whines, and focus on the content - I like the thought of a cobalt steel, dont ask me why, perhaps the valence of cobalt? those electron shells need some fillin

    ever since nickel was kicked to the curb, I've been pining for something else, ...niobium is still a good one ; )
     
    nsm likes this.
  5. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Spyderco has always been a fearsome competitor in marketing, having your own steel is a big discriminator. If it can be shown "better" that gives them even more of an edge. ATS55 was kind of better, but not better enough.
     
  6. Kalojo

    Kalojo Gold Member Gold Member

    17
    Feb 12, 2020
    70rc,30%vanadium...what steel are you referring to?
     
  7. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade, Custom Knives Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 22, 2014
    I meant 30% overall carbide volume with a healthy dose of Vanadium carbide included, only steel that has this that is currently available is Rex121 ~24% MC type and ~6% M6C type carbides.
    [​IMG]



    2nd place is CPM 15V at ~23% MC type but doesn't reach 70rc nor 30% overall.


    [​IMG]

    But 15v is finer structured and gets plenty hard and durable with special custom heat treat protocols leading to more stability.

    [​IMG]
     
    MolokaiRider, Kaizen1 and Barman1 like this.
  8. Kalojo

    Kalojo Gold Member Gold Member

    17
    Feb 12, 2020
    Thanks for the reply. Love your thought process. I can't stand having to sharpen a knife every time I want to use it.
    I'm certainly not in your league, but my homegrown philosophy has always been push the steel to the max of its capability based on it's intended use. Doesn't make sense to me to use a steel and waste it's properties. Go with a lesser steel if you are content with less performance.
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  9. Cscotttsss

    Cscotttsss Basic Member Basic Member

    Mar 3, 2015

    Very cool, this is why Spyderco is my favorite knife manufacturer.
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  10. Kalojo

    Kalojo Gold Member Gold Member

    17
    Feb 12, 2020
    Looking forward to results.
    Speaking of Spyderco, I like the fact that they experiment with better steels... I just can't fall in love with their goofy looking(my opinion) blades.
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  11. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade, Custom Knives Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 22, 2014
    I felt that way about the "looks" at first but as a user I begin to realize my hands didn't have eyes :D and grew to love the designs.

     
    Lee D, dirc and nsm like this.
  12. nutsforknives

    nutsforknives

    35
    May 1, 2010
    As someone who sharpens freehand on Japanese waterstones, I am excited about this steel. A lot of japanese steels like the Hitachi white and blue paper series are optimized for apex stability and sharpenability, which I think is awesome. They take an incredible edge using basic sharpening equipment, and it is easy to thin them out/convex them by hand. S30V on the other hand... its not too difficult to sharpen but if you want to thin it out and improve performance without diamonds it takes FOREVER. Even with diamonds, it is tough to get as good of an apex on s30v as I can on other steels. Guys that use guided sharpening systems or don't mess with their edge geometry might not see much difference between s30v/s35vn/spy27. Personally a steel with comparable performance to s30v but with better sharpenabilty, stability at low edge angles, and ability to take a highly polished edge is a dream steel. Fine grain structure, low carbide volume and small carbide size are a way bigger deal than people think. Its not all about wear resistance. You can effectively improve wear resistance by a LOT by having thinner geometry, something that spy27 should do well. AEB-L has super fine structure, and on my waterstones I can produce a keener and thinner edge than on any other stainless steel I've tried. I use it on a kitchen utility knife, so I can take the edge very thin without worrying too much. I'm stoked about the spy27 para3. If it performs like s30v but feels more like low-alloy steel on the stones, I should be able to get awesome cutting performance out of it.
     
    superpog and dirc like this.
  13. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    120
    Mar 30, 2018
    Nailed it. Lower carbide volume, higher hardness = similar wear resistance, bit with more toughness, greater edge stability, can be taken to lower edge angles, and will have better sharpening characteristics.

    Sounds good to me.
     
  14. This only works out if it’s actually heat treated to higher hardness. Since it heat treats basically the same as S35VN, I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting appreciably higher hardness on their SPY27.
     
    marrenmiller likes this.
  15. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    This is why I'm not very interested, personally. If someone finds that these hypothetical benefits are realized with Spyderco's production heat treatment, then I'll be into it.
     
  16. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    120
    Mar 30, 2018
    I'm not sure about that. While Spyderco rubs their s30v pretty consistently at 59-60, they do seem to push the hardness on their sprints/exclusives in the more exotic steels. They seem to take CruWear to 62/63, m4 to 63/64, 4v has been around 64, rex45 and k390 blades have been up around 66, so it's not like Spyderco is unwilling or unable to release steels at higher hardness. SPY27 is an exotic steel for sure, and being their own proprietary grade, I think they may want to try and make a statement here. It's also interesting to note that the SPY27 models are taking a little longer than expected to hit the market. Maybe they heard the initial grumblings about not being any better than s30v/s35vn, decided that is the last thing they want people to come away thinking, and went back to the drawing board as far as their heat trest protocol.

    In a nutshell, I think they want to differentiate this steel from s30v, and are fully capable of executing on that plan.
     
  17. The steels they’ve done at high HRC are relatively easy to get high hardness using production heat treat methods. The fact that their CruWear and Maxamet is hard isn’t surprising, since their results are what’s expected for those steels. If production heat treatments get you similar results to S30 and S35, that’s probably what you can expect.

    I’ll note that Spyderco’s latest product reveal (from the other day) doesn’t have the SPY27 models designated as sprint runs. They appear to be new additions to the regular product line (which makes sense, since it doesn’t work out financially to develop and source a new steel and then restrict it to sprint runs).
     
    marrenmiller likes this.
  18. Baron Mind

    Baron Mind

    120
    Mar 30, 2018
    Yea you may be right, we'll see. Even if doesn't wind up performing any better than s30v/s35vn in a meaningful or noticeable way (of course blade steel performance is somewhat difficult to fully quantify), it will still be a perfectly good blade steel. If Spyderco is only able to come up with a similar protocol to s30v/s35vn, I think what you will get is a steel that's slightly tougher than s35vn, with slightly lower wear resistance. Like s45vn, it may just be another variation in that family, but either way, taking that base recipe, adding cobalt, and increasing the niobium was an interesting idea, and I'm glad they tried it. I love to see a knife company that us willing to experiment and innovate. For now I'll hold on to hopes that the steel turns out to be something noteworthy, but if not, I'm still happy to support a company trying something new.
     
  19. nutsforknives

    nutsforknives

    35
    May 1, 2010
    Wait, does this also apply to the k390 delica/endura? I would be stoked if that were a regularly available item. Would much prefer k390 to zdp-189. In fact, spy27 and k390 being regularly available across their American and Japanese lineup... I might end up with some more spydercos.
     
  20. Karl H

    Karl H

    86
    Apr 24, 2020
    I like that Spyderco is developing a new steel, but I am very underwhelmed by their marketing.

    To my knowledge, Spyderco has not presented any clear benefits to their proprietary steel. If Spyderco has released any information about the steel, other than chemistry, I would be happy to see it. I am glad that Sal chimed in regarding the chemistry of the steel and some of the thought processes behind it. However, knowing the steel chemistry alone means very little to anyone who is performance or value oriented.

    I understand there is a market for people who will buy a steel solely on the basis of it being new and different. If they want sell SPY27 to customers that are value or performance oriented, they should make a better sales pitch.

    At the moment, I really don't see a strong incentive to for anyone to buy SPY27 over VG-10, CPM S35VN, or CPM S30V, especially when they seem to be charging more for SPY27.

    While there might be some benefit to the end user, Spyderco's current marketing just makes it seem like a cash grab.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020

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