Recommendation? New to knives, looking for help

I am a big fan of the Kizer Gemini. It's a fantastic EDC and I carry it quite regularly.
Price for the S35VN Titanium version is a bit north of $100, but I definitely prefer it over Kizer's G-10 Vanguard Gemini. The contouring in the handle just feels so much more comfy than that of the flat handled Vanguard.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm,

Get any knife with these steels: CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-made D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job).....

The rest is easy. Steel is what defines the character and performance of the knife, it's the engine, it's the power, it's everything.
Click to expand...

I have a few knives made with your do not buy steels!!


Non American
Aus8a (handful of Cold Steel folders in this steel).

Japanese vg10 laminated.

Byrd Cara Cara wirh titanium handles in Chinese
8Cr13MoV.

I carry that knife a lot!!

I have carried and used customs worth thousands.. I still usually have a knife in my pocket for dirty use to keep my nicer knives unabused.

I've used a knife in the 2K to castrate cows.... so I'm not above using nice knives...but I still have my beater knives in "low end steel".

Just this week, I had epoxy overglue on hest treated steel (from gluing the scales onto a knife I made). Rather than rooting though my garage to find my stack of razors, I just cut/scrapped the hardened epoxy of the ricasso area with a Spyderco. Took some repeated scraping with lateral force. The steel did fine... was easy to retouch it.
 
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Given your specs, I'll second the earlier recommendations for the Kershaw Dividend or Link in M390, depending on your blade shape preference.

Just to note, though, you asked specifically for a smooth knife, not necessarily one that was spring assisted. Generally speaking, spring assist is used to counter what's otherwise a shoddy movement, which is why a lot of low-end knives (e.g., MTechs) use it. Past a certain price point, most knives should be smooth. Non-assisted knives are usually easier to close, too, since the blade can drop shut once unlocked - you don't need to push the spring closed after unlocking it.

Since you don't want to thumb open, there are two main options:
  • Flippers, as mostly described in this thread. For unassisted flippers under $100, I'd say take a look at Civivi knives in D2 steel
  • Spydercos, which can be flicked open by the spydiehole using your index or middle fingers. Main option here in your price range would be the Para 3 Lightweight

Also, re: the much-thrashed list of do and don't-buy steels above, what's funny is that it's objectively wrong - RWL should easily outperform 3V on an EDC blade for both edge retention and stain resistance, assuming a similar quality of heat treat.
 
Kershaw Blur...

Of all my more expensive knives, it is the only assisted one that keeps finding it's way back into rotation...
Even when I sold off my collection of Blurs, I kept a standard 14c28n version (good) and ELMAX (great imo) version to keep in my rotation...

Link in s35v, 20cv, or m390
Or a Knockout would also all be strong contenders...
There is also quite a few intriguing new D2 steel options currently available for preorder.

If you want something assisted, flipper, and real inexpensive that you can beat up on without worry but still looks great, the Kershaw Scrambler is on sale at bladeHQ for $23... another one I still carry for a beater...

Good luck.
 
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Addicted_to_Knives said:
DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm,

Get any knife with these steels: CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-made D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job).....

The rest is easy. Steel is what defines the character and performance of the knife, it's the engine, it's the power, it's everything.
Click to expand...

a Rat1 in Aus8 is an iron skillet of an EDC.
 
Hoyle33 said:
Thanks for the help everyone!

I decided to go with the Kershaw Link in 20CV, seemed like the best bang for the buck
Click to expand...

That is an excellent choice! If I can offer one small piece of advise, you may want to stay on top of maintaining the edge on that knife. Give it a strop or a swipe across some fine or ultra fine stones every few days, keep that edge sharp! 20CV is an amazing steel and it is easy to maintain as long as you don't let it get super dull. Bringing the edge back from being very dull can be a bit of a challenge, not only with 20CV but with a a lot of the modern super steels.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm,

Get any knife with these steels: CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-made D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job).....

The rest is easy. Steel is what defines the character and performance of the knife, it's the engine, it's the power, it's everything.
Click to expand...

It's out of character for me to call someone out on something they posted, but this is wrong on so, so many levels. While it is true you should avoid mystery steel, not every steel needs to have high wear resistance. 420HC, AUS8, 8cr13MoV, the 440 series, and 7cr17 are all acceptable steels when the heat treatment is done right. VG10, AUS10 and N690Co are entry level premium steels and are excellent steels. Heat treatment is the #1 factor in how a steel performs. Different heat treatments can make the same steel soft and tough or overly hard and prone to chipping.

I don't want to discourage you, please don't take this as harsh criticism. We all have a lot to learn from each other.
 
:) I agree with heat treating comments, in my post I assumed all heat treatment was done correctly... I think you are missing the main point:

Let me repeat in better detail (assuming you follow the common sense logic not to cut things you are not supposed to):

A. Knife performance = blade steel heat treatment + blade steel composition (chemical)

If knife was not heat treated properly you will experience blade breaking, chippings and just feel that knife is not performing. Period. When you buy the knife, you do ASSUME that heat treating was done properly, since there is no other way of finding out, other than cutting things and EDCing the knife!

B. Now what you can choose and control is the blade steel. What kind of blade steel should you go for that I think is the most important first decision you can make. My very first knife I got had m390 blade and this was the gateway drug for me and that's how I wound up with experimenting, testing blades and collecting knives. I might not be an expert knifesmith, but I do know enough to hold a descent conversation and argue my point with any knifemaker.

Now - all these steels I mention below as DO NOT BUY - these blades can get dull edge pretty fast - just try cutting rope, carpet, cardboard boxes and see how long your blade will last, how long it will maintain its sharpness and how sharp it will be at the end of the day. You will find yourself sharpening your blade pretty much every day or every other day. You might not even be able to peel a potato afterwards.

Therefore, I DO VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE that the following blade steels (below) are complete BULLSH*T and no descent knifemaker should ever use these again unless you want to put a knife for retail sale under $50.

PLEASE (for your first knife) DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm.

Get any knife with these steels (assuming they have been heat treated properly): CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-heat treated D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job)....

The logic behind: FOR ME PERSONALLY (and that's where I am giving my advice from, from my own personal experience & view) Knife is a mutliuse cutting tool, you should be able to slice an apple, cut a rope, cut a cardboard, wood, cut a car door out or take down a concrete wall. That's why I carry Medford Fighter sometimes, sometimes I carry Cold Steel 4 Max, Cold Steel Espada XL.... knives that might seem insanely big for others, for me just a cool big EDC blade.

That's all. Don't get too upset with my views and opinions. I am glad to discuss and explain you my viewpoint.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
:) I agree with heat treating comments, in my post I assumed all heat treatment was done correctly... I think you are missing the main point:

Let me repeat in better detail (assuming you follow the common sense logic not to cut things you are not supposed to):

A. Knife performance = blade steel heat treatment + blade steel composition (chemical)

If knife was not heat treated properly you will experience blade breaking, chippings and just feel that knife is not performing. Period. When you buy the knife, you do ASSUME that heat treating was done properly, since there is no other way of finding out, other than cutting things and EDCing the knife!

B. Now what you can choose and control is the blade steel. What kind of blade steel should you go for that I think is the most important first decision you can make. My very first knife I got had m390 blade and this was the gateway drug for me and that's how I wound up with experimenting, testing blades and collecting knives. I might not be an expert knifesmith, but I do know enough to hold a descent conversation and argue my point with any knifemaker.

Now - all these steels I mention below as DO NOT BUY - these blades can get dull edge pretty fast - just try cutting rope, carpet, cardboard boxes and see how long your blade will last, how long it will maintain its sharpness and how sharp it will be at the end of the day. You will find yourself sharpening your blade pretty much every day or every other day. You might not even be able to peel a potato afterwards.

Therefore, I DO VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE that the following blade steels (below) are complete BULLSH*T and no descent knifemaker should ever use these again unless you want to put a knife for retail sale under $50.

PLEASE (for your first knife) DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm.

Get any knife with these steels (assuming they have been heat treated properly): CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-heat treated D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job)....

The logic behind: FOR ME PERSONALLY (and that's where I am giving my advice from, from my own personal experience & view) Knife is a mutliuse cutting tool, you should be able to slice an apple, cut a rope, cut a cardboard, wood, cut a car door out or take down a concrete wall. That's why I carry Medford Fighter sometimes, sometimes I carry Cold Steel 4 Max, Cold Steel Espada XL.... knives that might seem insanely big for others, for me just a cool big EDC blade.

That's all. Don't get too upset with my views and opinions. I am glad to discuss and explain you my viewpoint.
Click to expand...
I agree with you with majority of what you said.
I would never buy knife in 440 or aplhabet soup steel... but that's me.

I have a knife in SK-5, and some people avoid SK-5. Or anything non stainless.

Not everyone needs to cut loads of ropes and/or cardboard every day. For those people 440 will be decent steel for EDC and the cost won't break the bank.

I use my Recon Tanto as all around beater or chopper. I know that CPM-3V holds better edge and is tougher and more corrosion resistant than SK-5, but I don't mind sharpening my knife more often. And I also don't use it daily so cheaper option is a nobrainer since SK-5 is a very tough steel.
Also, 52100 knife is kinda overkill for me, but it was cheap so - why not?
Now I started to carry Boker GoBag in D2 and I have no idea is it Chinese or American or German D2 but I couldn't care less either.

While I understand people who are steel snobs, I also understand people buying cheap stuff or simply bad steel.

In a nutshell - I avoid buying notoriously bad steel and I am picky about it... but at the same time think there is a place even for bad steels to exist.
We don't know to recognize good without getting to know evil. So we also can't appreciate quality without experiencing something that... well... lacks quality :D
 
FWIW Addicted_to_Knives Addicted_to_Knives , and this in no way intended to be an argument, just the other side of the coin, for some folks out there, ease of sharpening is a much more important factor then overall edge holding. Some folks love their old Black or Translucent Arkie stones, and love the therapy that pulling a piece of steel across said stone provides. Some would much rather pull a nice slab of 440 series or aus8 across said stone on a somewhat regular basis, taking pleasure in bringing it back to a razor-laser edge. Some folks even still carry a little hard arkie pocket stone around just for those touch-ups. Others simply prefer a pocket pull through sharpener and a sub $50 tool.

Furthermore, to say any and all D2 or whatever which is not "made in America" is crap is a very bold statement, as many reputable manufacturers exist worldwide, and many folks in those countries use knives too. With the recipes for those steels very readily available, any foundry with the resources can duplicate said recipe and make a very good product. I mean shoot, I'm a "made in America" guy myself, and much prefer American made products, and do try to shy away from Chinese products far more often then not. But.... I also understand the market, manufacturing costs, relative value, etc. and would consider anybody a fool if they truly believe that the D2 or s35v being used by companies like CIVIVI, WE, Defcon, Kizer, Bestech, is "crap steel" simply because of where the knives were produced.
You want to avoid "made in China" that's great. Kudos! But if we're talking purely about the quality of the steel/heat treat itself, then the standards set by the company and manufacturer is more important then the country of origin. Is there some crap coming out of China? Absolutely. But make no doubt about it, there is crap being produced right here in the good ol' USofA too.

Sure, we're all entitled to our opinions, you as well, and I respect that that is your opinion. But I've used many of the "crap" steels you mentioned, for nearly every task you mentioned short of the car door and concrete wall, and while sure they didn't hold the edge as long as fancier powder steels, they did do quite an adequate job for any and all tasks I've asked of 'em; be it 8cr from Kershaw (china), 420hc (less carbon content then 440a mind you), from both Buck & Case (usa), s35v from Kizer (china), vg10 from Mcusta & Shun (japan), n690 from Arno Bernard (s.africa), 440c from Boker+ (china), AUS8 from Ontario & Kabar (taiwan), all of them have made quite the adequate knife for nearly any and all knife related tasks, the lesser graded steels especially for a novice user, someone who enjoys sharpening their knives, and/or someone who doesn't have/want to invest in premium sharpening devices or services.

And that's my opinion, take it or leave it for what it's worth. A grain of salt, or a penny in the peanut gallery.
 
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You might like the Sog Aegis or Trident.
There's also a 3 inch version of the Aegis.
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Addicted_to_Knives said:
:) I agree with heat treating comments, in my post I assumed all heat treatment was done correctly... I think you are missing the main point:

Let me repeat in better detail (assuming you follow the common sense logic not to cut things you are not supposed to):

A. Knife performance = blade steel heat treatment + blade steel composition (chemical)

If knife was not heat treated properly you will experience blade breaking, chippings and just feel that knife is not performing. Period. When you buy the knife, you do ASSUME that heat treating was done properly, since there is no other way of finding out, other than cutting things and EDCing the knife!

B. Now what you can choose and control is the blade steel. What kind of blade steel should you go for that I think is the most important first decision you can make. My very first knife I got had m390 blade and this was the gateway drug for me and that's how I wound up with experimenting, testing blades and collecting knives. I might not be an expert knifesmith, but I do know enough to hold a descent conversation and argue my point with any knifemaker.

Now - all these steels I mention below as DO NOT BUY - these blades can get dull edge pretty fast - just try cutting rope, carpet, cardboard boxes and see how long your blade will last, how long it will maintain its sharpness and how sharp it will be at the end of the day. You will find yourself sharpening your blade pretty much every day or every other day. You might not even be able to peel a potato afterwards.

Therefore, I DO VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE that the following blade steels (below) are complete BULLSH*T and no descent knifemaker should ever use these again unless you want to put a knife for retail sale under $50.

PLEASE (for your first knife) DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm.

Get any knife with these steels (assuming they have been heat treated properly): CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-heat treated D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job)....

The logic behind: FOR ME PERSONALLY (and that's where I am giving my advice from, from my own personal experience & view) Knife is a mutliuse cutting tool, you should be able to slice an apple, cut a rope, cut a cardboard, wood, cut a car door out or take down a concrete wall. That's why I carry Medford Fighter sometimes, sometimes I carry Cold Steel 4 Max, Cold Steel Espada XL.... knives that might seem insanely big for others, for me just a cool big EDC blade.

That's all. Don't get too upset with my views and opinions. I am glad to discuss and explain you my viewpoint.
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I wouldn't really call those your views or opinions though, because calling ALL of those steels complete bullshit is factually wrong.

There is literally nothing wrong with a cheaper knife having a cheaper steel. And there is nothing wrong with most of those steels. I tend to prefer ease of sharpening over overall edge retention, so you'll never catch me with something like S110V.

I'm just genuinely confused about your intense dislike of lower end steels. 3cr13 and 420 and 440a are one thing, but those are like bottom of the barrel. Tons of the steels you mentioned are phenomenal overall. Most people do not use their knives to the extent that they'd need to sharpen even lower end steels everyday.

Very strange, gotta say.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
A. Knife performance = blade steel heat treatment + blade steel composition (chemical)
Click to expand...

You're missing geometry in your equation, which has more of an effect on knife performance than steel treatment and selection combined:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/18/maximizing-edge-retention/

In other words, VG-10 that's been ground well to an ideal geometry, etc., will out-perform particle steels with thick, crappy edges.

Addicted_to_Knives said:
If knife was not heat treated properly you will experience blade breaking, chippings and just feel that knife is not performing. Period. When you buy the knife, you do ASSUME that heat treating was done properly, since there is no other way of finding out, other than cutting things and EDCing the knife!
Click to expand...

You know heat treat isn't a binary was/wasn't performed correctly, right? Even when performed "correctly", a knife can be heat treated for edge retention (higher HRC) or toughness (lower HRC). Pete from Cedric and Ada on YouTube recently compared custom 3V @ 62HRC vs Benchmade 3V @ ~56HRC - huge difference in both edge retention and toughness.

As above, cheaper steels that have been heat treated to optimize edge retention will outperform super steels treated to optimize toughness, when compared using EDC-type tasks, rather than chopping, etc. Pete's larger group of tests show both 154CM and Chinese D2 outperforming Benchmade's 3V, on edge retention tests. Fallkniven VG-10 should be able to do so, as well, if taken down to 17DPS on the KME - he's never tested that.

For the OP: steel is one indicator for the quality of a knife, but it's not the only one. Lots of companies are now throwing super steels onto knives that otherwise have thick grinds and non-optimized heat treats. They look great on paper, but will underperform in real use.
 
Addicted_to_Knives said:
DO NOT BUY any knife with the following steels: Chinese steels (9cr, 8cr,7cr and lower), any Pakistani steels, 440 steels, plain stainless crap, AUS 8, AUS 8A or below (AUS 7 etc), AUS 10, AUS10A, VG10, N690co
, Non-American D2, RWL, 154cm,

Get any knife with these steels (assuming they have been heat treated properly): CPM M4, M390, CPM 20CV, CPM S90V, S110V, 10V, 3V, Elmax, American-made D2 (Greg Medford does fantastic job heat treating D2)....

The rest is easy. Steel is what defines the character and performance of the knife, it's the engine, it's the power, it's everything.
Click to expand...

And yet Ontario Cutlery (Who does not have knives made offshore) uses AUS 8 on the RAT 1 and RAT 2, both of which have an excellent reputation using the AUS 8 steel. Admittedly, the D2 version may be more popular.
Other American companies use N690, and VG10.

As for the 440 stainless steels ... 440A is quite common, 440C is common on some brands, such as Boker and Puma. 440C was the "original" "super steel", you know. It may be "obsolete" compared to some of the modern powdered steels, but it is still nothing to sneeze at.

Fact is, any of the steels you suggest avoiding (with the possible exception of the Pakistani "mystery" steels and "Damascus") so long as tehy have a good heat treat perform just fine.

Not everyone "needs" a "super steel" you know.
I am quite happy with my 425HC, 440A, 1.1441, 10xx, T10, 9CR, 7CR, and other "obsolete" blade steels used by Case, Buck, Schrade, Marbles, Western, Rough Rider/Rough Ryder, and yes, even Cold Steel.
The Heat Treat and Blade Geometry are more important than whatever steel is used.
So long as you buy a name brand, you can be sure the heat treat and geometry are good.
 
Not a fan of assist open Benchmades. One of my favorite things about the Axis lock is the ability to truly open and close it with the flick of the wrist. Their spring assist knives open just fine but you won’t have the ability to close it using the axis lock with the flick of the wrist, the spring is just too tight.
To me the assist makes the best part of the Axis design useless.
You can deploy a non assist Benchmade just as fast and effortless as an assist.
Anyway if you go with a Benchmade it’s something to think about.
I really like the speedsafe assist that Kershaw puts out. Kershaws are great knives for the money and will serve you well while you get your feet wet and beyond.
 
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