New to me Chinese Bows this month

[Dobe_1]

I live alone at the moment.

It will be different when my fiancee moves in. I may no longer be allowed to practice close range at home after that.

And yes, I shoot with the arrow resting on the right side, but other styles may have it on the left. No right or wrong, just preference and consistency.

Women have no sense of priorities

 

[blue lander]

I'm not aware that the Chinese ruled and wiped out "real" traditional Mongolian archery, unless you are referring to the Cultural revolution, in which the Communists repressed that kind of stuff nationwide. Its only recently that Chinese archery is under going a revival in the Mainland since much knowledge, craftsmanship, and continuity was lost. I also don't believe the Communists ever get to rule and instill that kind of tyranny in Mongolia.

If you are referring to the Qing dynasty under the Manchus, I'll refer you to my friend Peter Dekker's article.
http://www.manchuarchery.org/did-qing-ban-archery-mongolia

Mongolians had much influence and status in the Qing dynasty. It doesn't make sense to disarm military elite people who are going to fight for you.

Interesting article! This article says pretty much the exact opposite, that the Manchu were afraid of a Mongol uprising so they destroyed every Mongol bow they could find and replaced them with smaller Manchu ones.

http://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1064&context=isp_collection

The period of Manchu rule was possibly the most destructive for the Mongolian traditions of archery. The Manchu were afraid of the Mongolians potential to revolt against them and they did all that they could do to suppress and weaken theme memory of Mongolia’s warrior past. Up until this point horseback archery had been an everyday practice for herders. This daily practice was one of the first things that the Manchu tried to eradicate. Before the 1700’s the clothing
of the average Mongolian was suited for archery and warfare; the sleeves of the deel were tight and well fitted for wielding a bow and the Mongolian boots were straight toed and suited for kicking an enemy from horseback. (Bazarsuren, 05-22-08) The Manchu turned up the points of the shoes making them ineffective for kicking and lengthened the sleeves of the dell so that they draped over the Mongolians hands and were ill suited for fighting or archery. (Munkhjargal, 5-14- 08) Meanwhile, the strong Mongolian bow was replaced with a weaker version of the Manchu bow. Most destructively, Manchu solders marched in to gers and
broke any bows that they found. Over two hundred years of enforcement these changes stuck and the ancient art of bow making was nearly lost along with a majority of archery games and traditions. The Manchu also incorporated Mongolians in to their army and carefully substituted Manchu traditions for Mongolian ones until Manchu culture was integrated in to Mongolian. As a result of Manchu rule the art of archery as it had been since the days of the Golden Khan was extinguished.

I do agree with your friend that it's odd there are no primary sources confirming any of this. Seems more of a "cultural memory" sort of thing

 

[christcl]

Interesting article! This article says pretty much the exact opposite, that the Manchu were afraid of a Mongol uprising so they destroyed every Mongol bow they could find and replaced them with smaller Manchu ones.

http://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1064&context=isp_collection



I do agree with your friend that it's odd there are no primary sources confirming any of this. Seems more of a "cultural memory" sort of thing

Thanks for the article blue lander! I'll be sure to pass it to my friend for his analysis.

The Manchu bow did become the standard for China and areas of the Empire as it was a standardized and specialized equipment.

It's the most overbuilt Asiatic recurve and meant to shoot big, heavy arrows.

In traditional archery circles, there is a bit of contempt and hostility I've encountered from ethnic Mongolians when I've shared my pictures of my Qing Manchu bow.
I've wondered why and so far my friends article makes the most sense to me.
I understand there is much nationalism and cultural pride involved in traditional archery but that's a shame since archery is a universal human cultural achievement and we can't really quantify which people's bow is the best since archery is about what works. also the fundamentals of shooting a bow are the same regardless of the style and type. You still need good basics and understanding of the correct muscles, technique, etc.

 

[blue lander]

I've never spoken to Mongolians about archery in particular, but in general they're quite hostile to the "Manj" to this day because they believe they purposefully kept them weak and ignorant and tried to destroy their indigenous customs.

The official narrative while they were a communist nation was that the Soviet Union rescued Mongolia from China, who kept them backwards and poor, and the Soviets educated/modernized them. So the idea that the Manchu did all these terrible things to them might just be part of that propaganda. Mongolians tend to hate the Chinese anyways so it probably didn't take much convincing to make them blame them. So it's probably a mix of propaganda to make the Soviets look good and some good old fashioned nationalism/chauvinism thrown in with a sprinkling of truth too. Without any primary sources it's probably impossible to tell for sure.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Gorgeous bows

I too prefer to shoot off the "wrong" side of the bow. I've found that I can shoot better right or left handed instinctually and don't tend to accidentally smack my forearm if my form gets a little loosey goosey. I murder beer cans at 20 yards

I'd be all over one of those bows if it were around a 35# plinker weight. My 50# recurve bow is fun, but tuckers me out. I usually end up finishing up my sets on my wife's 20# Genesis

 

[Bawanna]

Actually that's a fine idea Steely. Back in my vertical hunting days when I was building fences I discovered that digging post holes works the same muscles needed to draw a bow. A veteran bow hunter who showed me the ropes thought he'd have a laugh and handed me a 70# compound. I pulled it with ease much to his amazement.
I hunted with a 75# Martin Bobcat compound.
Then before I totally ruined my back with that wall encounter I messed up a vertabrae between my shoulder blades and just a few shots would put me in agony for weeks.
Something similar to these in a light weight, I dare to say girlyman, would be fun. Can shoot in the back yard or I guess the kitchen now if the wife isn't home, don't bother anybody and be a good time.

I think you and Christcl may have reignited an arrow interest.

 

[snowwolf]

How much pounds of tension do you get in those beautiful bows?

 

[christcl]

I've never spoken to Mongolians about archery in particular, but in general they're quite hostile to the "Manj" to this day because they believe they purposefully kept them weak and ignorant and tried to destroy their indigenous customs.

The official narrative while they were a communist nation was that the Soviet Union rescued Mongolia from China, who kept them backwards and poor, and the Soviets educated/modernized them. So the idea that the Manchu did all these terrible things to them might just be part of that propaganda. Mongolians tend to hate the Chinese anyways so it probably didn't take much convincing to make them blame them. So it's probably a mix of propaganda to make the Soviets look good and some good old fashioned nationalism/chauvinism thrown in with a sprinkling of truth too. Without any primary sources it's probably impossible to tell for sure.

I see.

That's too bad.

How much pounds of tension do you get in those beautiful bows?

 

[christcl]

I've never spoken to Mongolians about archery in particular, but in general they're quite hostile to the "Manj" to this day because they believe they purposefully kept them weak and ignorant and tried to destroy their indigenous customs.

The official narrative while they were a communist nation was that the Soviet Union rescued Mongolia from China, who kept them backwards and poor, and the Soviets educated/modernized them. So the idea that the Manchu did all these terrible things to them might just be part of that propaganda. Mongolians tend to hate the Chinese anyways so it probably didn't take much convincing to make them blame them. So it's probably a mix of propaganda to make the Soviets look good and some good old fashioned nationalism/chauvinism thrown in with a sprinkling of truth too. Without any primary sources it's probably impossible to tell for sure.

How much pounds of tension do you get in those beautiful bows?

58# at 36" for the Qing
69# at 32" for the Khan
I draw to about 29-30"

 

[ndoghouse]

Gorgeous bows
I'd be all over one of those bows if it were around a 35# plinker weight. My 50# recurve bow is fun, but tuckers me out. I usually end up finishing up my sets on my wife's 20# Genesis

Same here. I had a beatup #45 pound Ben Pearson fiberglass when I was younger and it was pretty tiring at the end of the day but It was fun. Dad had a #60 and by the time I got it pulled and aimed my arms were shaking like a leaf. I could probably do it now.
Those are some gorgeous bows! Id love to have one now that im old and stronger

 

[Shavru]

Lovely bows. Hehe, When I saw the stance in the kitchen I immediately thought of my Kyujutsu Yumi. Very similar stance though a bit shorter bow length than I am used to based on the height of you as the Archer compared with the Japanese style. Do Chinese bows vary in length for Archers height or more one size fits most based on the usage?

 

[christcl]

Lovely bows. Hehe, When I saw the stance in the kitchen I immediately thought of my Kyujutsu Yumi. Very similar stance though a bit shorter bow length than I am used to based on the height of you as the Archer compared with the Japanese style. Do Chinese bows vary in length for Archers height or more one size fits most based on the usage?

Hi Shavru, since Manchu bows and Japanese bows are so large, there are similarities.

We are using modern interpretations of Chinese bows from different dynasties, so I cannot comment definitively on whether historically bows were dependent on archers height.

Chinese traditional archery also does not have continuity like Japanese ryus so we dont have equipment standards. We get to shoot with what we like.

 

[christcl]

Went to the range today and took a few snaps from practice vids.

I practice Gao Ying style, a military archery form from the late Ming dynasty.

 

[Bawanna]

No targets. Did you hit good? What kind of distance do you shoot when at the range?

Also I keep meaning to ask, what do you shoot at when you shoot in the kitchen? I got a big foam archery target that would probably work I guess.

I got a big yard so don't need to but was sure curious about that indoor shooting.

 

[Dobe_1]

Makes me want to get back into archery. Another hobby, that's what I need.

 

[blue lander]

Man that looks like fun

 

[christcl]

No targets. Did you hit good? What kind of distance do you shoot when at the range?

Also I keep meaning to ask, what do you shoot at when you shoot in the kitchen? I got a big foam archery target that would probably work I guess.

I got a big yard so don't need to but was sure curious about that indoor shooting.

I use a XL Rinehart Rhino block with replacement center core.
[video]]https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t43.1792-2/11018239_10103325562732481_1698054122_n.mp4?efg=ey JybHIiOjE1MDAsInJsYSI6MTAyNH0%3D&rl=1500&vabr=353&oh=a51609aca13e7d82067afab113d6d6e5&oe=5596E8AF[/video]

At my usual range we shoot between 15 and 40 yards. Groups start to open up since this is all technique, practice, and form. We don't have the benefits of modern sights, lasers, pulleys, etc. to make it easier.

 

[Bawanna]

Yeah I get the instinctive shooting. I knew a fella years ago was incredible at shooting with no sights. He was actually better without than he was with sights.

The big thing was estimating the range, I spent a lot of time just pacing things off and confirming distances.
I just used paces rather than feet or yards and then set my bow up based on my paces.

Years of putting up fences I think helped with the distance estimating.

 

[christcl]

Yeah I get the instinctive shooting. I knew a fella years ago was incredible at shooting with no sights. He was actually better without than he was with sights.

The big thing was estimating the range, I spent a lot of time just pacing things off and confirming distances.
I just used paces rather than feet or yards and then set my bow up based on my paces.

Years of putting up fences I think helped with the distance estimating.

I prefer to practice lots at home close range to get better with my form and consistency as well as strength conditioning for heavier bows.

I can get decent groups at 15-20 yards on good days when I'm rested and consistent with my form and release but I'm most interested in having good release.

Aim small miss small still applies. Beginners shooting at large targets farther away can lead to sloppiness if one cannot consistently be accurate closer.

 

[christcl]

Makes me want to get back into archery. Another hobby, that's what I need.

Got back into archery due to the 2013 mass shooting and panic buying and pending ban legislation.

Ammo and everything was super expensive or impossible to buy.

In Cali it seemed imminent they were going to come take our semi auto guns and ban bullets.

Bows are ok so far and arrows are reusable.