New Tracker Blade

[Danbo]

L6 rusts rather easily; you would not want that in a knife you need to use outdoors, possibly away from civilization for long periods. Even O1 would not be as bad in that way, and D2 would be significantly better.

I can make no sense of your suggestion. It seems incredibly wrong and bad. Can you explain further?

I can make no sense of your comments. L6 is about as tough as steel gets. O1 will rust just as fast, so your comment about that steel means nothing. And, who cares about rust on a survival knife? It's not like the knife is going to rust completely out of existence.

 

[robertmegar]

That's very bad logic. If a client doesn't pay after an item is delivered, the maker has no leverage to get payment; the client already has the item. A client whose knife is late can threaten to cancel the order and fail to send the balance of the payment.

Additionally, there's an associated question of reasonable expectation. I don't believe any knifemaker's timelines. I am a programmer by profession, and I advise people not to believe my timelines or anyone else's. The best I can do is warn of slippages and try to provide revised estimates, which you also shouldn't trust. It's worse in software engineering than in many other places, but it applies widely to many industries.

I disagree... you have to put things straight before doing business and stick with them or else there is a breach of the initial agreement. Implying that timelines should not be believed in is implying knifemakers can't be trusted.

By the way, if any professional gives a timeline and then recommends not to believe in the same timeline he provided... by all means the timeline is worthless. Time is money, if you are getting paid, time is an issue!

In terms of knifemakers... well, a handmade object may take time, maybe more than expected but it is WRONG to treat the customer as like it is ..."his fault for BELIEVING the timeline and expecting the knife when TOLD to..."

 

[Temper]

Temper, in your web site, you don't have L.R.{knife} any more, why?

email me, this isnt pertinent to this thread. Its probably not what you think though.

 

[Hippiesmurf69]

Hey Bart, how have you been beating on yer knife? I was out again today with it. I'm thinking I'd like a new handle made for it too. Probably just wood. This micarta looks like Zubaz. I've looked at Kfir's page from the Tracker School. He's done handles for the TOPS trackers. They look alright. Anyone got any resources for me?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

If a client doesn't pay after an item is delivered, the maker has no leverage to get payment; the client already has the item. A client whose knife is late can threaten to cancel the order and fail to send the balance of the payment.

The maker can also take the client to court if they don't pay. It is simply a matter of promises. I don't see a maker giving his word to deliver a product any different than my word I will pay by a certain date. It isn't like the buyer doesn't have to work for his money any less than the maker has to work for the product.

-Cliff

 

[t1mpani]

My own reply to why someone would use L6 as an outdoor knife would be the same as to why somebody would use 440C, ATS-34, or ceramic----that material best matches the user's habits and criteria. If you know that you will have absolutely no ability to care for the tool (kind of hard to justify, since preventing rust in anything but deep-sea diving pretty much means cleaning the blade off and wiping dry on your jeans), then go for a different steel. If your preference is not to HAVE to do even that much equipment care, then go for a different steel. But, understand that ANY material you use---even D2---has its drawbacks as well as its attributes.

D2 holds an edge exceedingly well and is very stain resistant, it also has very low ductility and is more prone to breaking and chipping. If you have found that your habits and uses do not produce chips and cracks in a D2 blade, then by all means that's a great choice. Other people's habits obviously have produced results for them where they prefer a different steel for their applications. L6 actually holds an edge very well too, so in comparison you're mainly trading corrosion resistance for ductility. If people have found that in their habits and uses corrosion isn't a big concern, they might prefer to go with this steel.

Claiming that one steel is absolutely better than another for an application when it is not absolutely known that the habits and conditions of use are absolutely the same is, frankly, absolutely stupid. I love D2, and I love L6. I have knives in both, and preferred jobs for both. Everything is a tradeoff.

I have to agree, though, that corrosion resistance should not be the ONLY factor that is considered in a "survival" knife. If you're actually having to survive with it, cosmetic staining and rust should be the last thing on your mind, and cataclysmic rust (the kind that starts affecting the structural integrity of the knife) in anything but total immersion in a corrosive takes months or even years of neglect. Remember---sailors were roaming the high seas with non-stainless blades for hundreds of years.

 

[chardin]

I can make no sense of your comments.

Try real hard.

L6 is about as tough as steel gets.

Which rebuts nothing I said.

O1 will rust just as fast,

Not in my experience.

And, who cares about rust on a survival knife?

Someone who intends to use it a long time, and who may not always have the luxury of keeping it perfectly dry between uses. That's a lot of people.

 

[chardin]

I disagree... you have to put things straight before doing business and stick with them or else there is a breach of the initial agreement.

That's a rather catastrophic way to characterize someone being a little late on a delivery. Certainly no practical businessman could afford to do things that way. Many things are delivered late; it's the communication that occurs in the interval that matters.

Implying that timelines should not be believed in is implying knifemakers can't be trusted.

Trust is not a light switch; it isn't a question of on or off. I have a knife in process which is a bit late. My maker has kept me up to date on everything, and the reasons for the lateness are reasonable. I paid for quality, not for a particular delivery date.

I'm sort of astonished by your comments. Have you ever run a business? Have you never seen how lateness is often dealt with as a matter of course?

 

[Myakka]

Wow! This thread becomes so interesting to me.
Well, Mark, I want you to watch this thread too.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322050&highlight=wsk


This statement above, spread propaganda; Is just a BIG LIE.
I have never, I mean, never been updated no"photo"no e mail in 10 months during I was waiting my WSK.
In the end of the story, I canceled my order and I don't give damn about the deposit that I paid.
I gave my position in the waiting list to Warren.

ishiyumisan@hotmail.com
Mark, you want the truth, email me.
Any decision you may take, be careful.
What it seems, here is not.
ALL THE BEST

Ishiyumisan,
I dont know you, and I have never said any thing negitive about you in the past. I do not like your personal attack on me.

So lets make it clear.

You can stick your comments where the sun doesn't shine

 

[Temper]

Good job K.Y errr K.V is here to put out the flames.

Overtime Ken?

 

[bartman2]

Hippiesmurf,
Maybe we could start a new thread these guys seemed focused on thrashing or defending RLinger or they are arguing steel grades. lmao
Holy crap talk about A.D.D. here. Guess they found someone besides RS6 to pick on though. Like blood in the water and here come the sharks. Wait more like BUZZARDS. lol
Anyway, as for the Predator I am beating the crap out of it. holds a great edge. I have held a Beck recently and is pretty close. The Saw edge does come close to the Edge. I lost a screw while target practicing. This thing has great balance. What do you think of the balance? Have you tried throwing? It sticks HARD. You can get replacement screws at Knife Supply. I picked up some a while back and they actually fit. I think I am going to hit the shop and make a handle out of cocobolo or ebony. I like the ones on it feel great but I think I will make an alternate set that is more like the Beck and rounder and thicker. Just to see difference. I really like the fact he put the flatheads in makes it easier to take them out. I put some loc-tite on them and have not had problem since. RS6 suggested that and it works well. I am glad it is standard fastner though. I don't mind the screw look so much. I buried the thing and dirt got packed into it but didn't cause a problem. Stuck it in the creek and it came out. I have in sitting over night hardening with mud in the handle see how hard it becomes to get out. How about you? What are you putting it through?

Guys stay on task on this thread. Most of you were concerned with the validity of the guys knife and we owning the things are having to listen to noise about unrelated things. Can you please start another thread to fight over RLinger or Axe Steel. Give us a break here.

 

[bartman2]

Cliff,

You do these reviews what test would you think we should put the Predator through? Since people see you as expert reviewer do you have any suggestions or tests I could do?
Danbo? Any suggestions?
Let's see if the man really did something here.

 

[chardin]

The maker can also take the client to court if they don't pay.

Yeah, I'm sure a knifemaker's legal budget can endure that.

It is simply a matter of promises. I don't see a maker giving his word to deliver a product any different than my word I will pay by a certain date.

I think I just got done explaining the differences. Try real hard.

It isn't like the buyer doesn't have to work for his money any less than the maker has to work for the product.

Money not yet paid for an incomplete product != blade delivered for no money.

 

[chardin]

My own reply to why someone would use L6 as an outdoor knife would be the same as to why somebody would use 440C, ATS-34, or ceramic----that material best matches the user's habits and criteria.

Your answer is better than mine. I should have emphasized this more, for it is closer to what I meant. Thank you.

One possible point of contention, however:

I have to agree, though, that corrosion resistance should not be the ONLY factor that is considered in a "survival" knife.

Agreed. Who ever said that?

If you're actually having to survive with it, cosmetic staining and rust should be the last thing on your mind, and cataclysmic rust (the kind that starts affecting the structural integrity of the knife) in anything but total immersion in a corrosive takes months or even years of neglect.

You are failing to consider one important class of application: Mass-issued knives which may be stored by indifferent quartermasters under varied conditions, then kept by indifferent troops under even more varied conditions. Rusting away is a real possibility there.

 

[robertmegar]

I'm sort of astonished by your comments. Have you ever run a business? Have you never seen how lateness is often dealt with as a matter of course?

As a matter of fact I am a businessman of many trades, and lateness is frown upon and SUED upon. A commission, be it a building, a house or a product not delivered on time cost money down the line for the time delayed. I am rather unimpressed by your lax views on timelyness, that's a good way to run a loooose ship. And loose ships sink.





PD sorry for the hijack

 

[t1mpani]

Agreed. Who ever said that?

Not you that I'm aware of--perhaps I should have gone on to emphasize that neither should toughness nor edge holding. Matching the properties of the steel to the user and application was my intended point. It was not directed at you, but I'm sorry if it came across that way.

You are failing to consider one important class of application: Mass-issued knives which may be stored by indifferent quartermasters under varied conditions, then kept by indifferent troops under even more varied conditions. Rusting away is a real possibility there.

Quite true, but I don't think we--on an internet forum dedicated entirely to knife discussion and a thread talking about knives costing hundreds of dollars--were referring to those indifferent troops, were we?

I think if we asked the average indifferent troop why he would consider a survival knife in L6 versus D2, he'd yawn.

 

[bartman2]

YAWNNN.... Thought we were discussing the NEW TRACKER BLADE on this thread. lol

 

[bartman2]

Cliff,
you going give me some tests for this knife or are you guys going to continue to masturbate your fingers typing away at L24 vs D64 axe's in Lord of the Rings. LOL
Let's figure out if I bought a piece of crap.

 

[bartman2]

Hippiesmurf,

email me this discussion is way off course.

 

[Hippiesmurf69]

Email sent bart. I hope the rest of you guys hash this all out.