- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,421
Mr. Banksy-
You may be right, there could be few full time craftsmen that would be put out of business. I'm not sure there is a good way of getting an accurate count, perhaps the actual number itself doesn't hold significant meaning. Instead, I think what I find myself wondering about is how much the minority matters?
You said towards the end of your post that this could result in a monetary loss for even the part time knife makers (I would add to that other part time craftsmen who use ivory). You ended with "I think we have to accept that." This is the difficult statement for me. When I am on the side of whatever rule, law, etc., I find it very easy to say or have the same sentiments. When I agree with it and would not be out any money (let's face it-when it hits us in the pocket it matters more), I can more easily disregard the objections of those on the other side. Sometimes I struggle to be sympathetic to others (ask my wife...), but again, I ask-how much do we care about the minority that is effected?
There has been much talk of finding a way for poachers to meet the needs of their families so they won't go shoot an elephant for its tusks. If craftsmen enjoy working with ivory and wouldn't seek different materials on their own, perhaps those with similar opinions to your own could work towards helping them transition out of the trade? Farmers globally are subsidized by governments to grow crops of wheat, etc. instead of drug crops that pay them more. Were the opinions or business practices changed of those craftsmen in a positive way (instead of regulated out of business), I'd imagine the change of opinion you seek would be that much further ahead. Just think of someone previously selling elephant ivory now educating past clients with a positive view on it all.
Clearly, there is no magic bullet or solution-as previously said, it's a very complex problem. I'm thankful for the discussion and that I live in a place where even the minority voices get to be heard. Sometimes it seems they can tend to be the loudest or get the most attention. I believe this topic to be one that stirs feelings in many people, on both sides. Thankfully, one thing all agree on is looking toward a long term solution of no poached elephants. And as is the case in general, "the devil is in the details".
Mr. Knapp-
Thank you for taking so much time in researching and posting your findings. And thank you for looking into the WildAid site and sharing it here. Sounds like they've already got things going. The avenues of reaching the goal can be different and people can disagree on how it should be done. I think you (and others here) are a great example of someone concerned about what's happening who does something about it.
Jeremy
Thank you Jeremy, I was going to say to Banksy that, no longer being able to use ivory is an easy thing for him to accept because he is not giving anything up.
If I use ivory on my knives (I am a full time maker, I know many other full time makers) I have to make about fifty of them a year to live in my lavish life style. I drive an '84 flatbed pickup, I live in my shop and my sheet rock is not finished. (I'm not complaining just trying to put it into perspective)
If I don't use ivory on my knives, I would have to make 150 knives a year to achieve the same income I do now. I can only make so making knives, it takes between fifty and eighty hours for me to make a knife, I have a three year backlog. I said way earlier in this thread that I do not use elephant ivory, I prefer fossil (ancient) walrus ivory and mammoth over it, but if legal elephant ivory is taken out of the mix, there are less materials around for all of us to choose from.
The lack of elephant ivory in the supply stream would be good for my handle supply business (my wife mostly takes care of that), demand for fossil walrus and mammoth ivory would go up, I could realize more return on my investment of time and cash. I suppose if I was a greedy kind of guy, I would be all for my competitors in the elephant ivory business to be gone. However, I think the precedence that could be set by the President's use of the executive order in this way will not be good for any of us.
Many people believe that if the proposed elephant ivory ban goes through, the next step will be fossil walrus and mammoth ivory, the people on the President's committee advocate for that.
People that come to Alaska and shop for knives do not want to see wooden handled knives, I can't sell a wooden handled knife to save my life, by any maker, in my store.
Thanks again for having the ability to see both sides.
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