New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

There was a lengthy discussion on NPR this morning concerning this very topic. The vivid descriptions of the elephant's killings and the poacher's methods were not winning any support. :(

They outlined the crushing destruction of the US hoard (which was never going for sale) in CO, and allowed that placed in motion the same objections and bans from other countries, China in particular.

There was a sidebar about how in the past musical instruments were destroyed in Customs which had ivory inlays. They stated there was now an allowance for pre-existing ivory to be recognized in the instruments as safe.

I'm hoping the same carries out for all art and valuables. I've been too busy to follow all of this thread, but I commend Mark especially, for his vigilance.

You're also making this a better world.

Coop
 
It should be noted that the first image I saw when I pulled up the link to Kniferights. org was Ted Nugent. Any organization that uses him to promote their agenda doesn't get my support, sorry.
 
betzner said:
It should be noted that the first image I saw when I pulled up the link to Kniferights. org was Ted Nugent. Any organization that uses him to promote their agenda doesn't get my support, sorry.
Click to expand...

Everyone must do what they think is right. My whole point throughout this whole thing has been, if we're going to walk away from this thing with any elephants left and our rights, privileges and personal belongings we are going to have to put aside some of our differences and all work together.

Respect to you Bob, but I feel differently.
 
SharpByCoop said:
There was a lengthy discussion on NPR this morning concerning this very topic. The vivid descriptions of the elephant's killings and the poacher's methods were not winning any support. :(

They outlined the crushing destruction of the US hoard (which was never going for sale) in CO, and allowed that placed in motion the same objections and bans from other countries, China in particular.

There was a sidebar about how in the past musical instruments were destroyed in Customs which had ivory inlays. They stated there was now an allowance for pre-existing ivory to be recognized in the instruments as safe.

I'm hoping the same carries out for all art and valuables. I've been too busy to follow all of this thread, but I commend Mark especially, for his vigilance.

You're also making this a better world.

Coop
Click to expand...

Thanks Coop, you've always been a "Bud"
 
I was a scrimshaw artist for over a decade in the '70's...in the New Bedford, MA area...during that time I accumulated a rather large collection of engraved sperm whale teeth, elephant ivory blanks...for engraving..., ivory carvings, etc. I can't do a thing with them. Can't sell them, trade them, etc.
I've wanted to for some time and have contacted NY state...my current home state...a couple of years ago and the hoops you have to jump through are insane.

It sucks that bad people poach these animals...shoot the poachers and I'd be satisfied...it also sucks that I can't do a thing with items I legally purchased when it was legal to purchase and sell them.

sigh...
 
betzner said:
It should be noted that the first image I saw when I pulled up the link to Kniferights. org was Ted Nugent. Any organization that uses him to promote their agenda doesn't get my support, sorry.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm not willing to join an organization that uses him as a front man.
I'm from Michigan, and knew him.
I don't care what his politics are, if you threaten and disrespect the President, you threaten and disrespect America and all who fight for our safety.
 
Protecting the victims often is not popular when they have something people want to sell. But they deserve to better

[video=youtube;OtQX9GHnOww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtQX9GHnOww[/video]
 
AVigil said:
Protecting the victims often is not popular when they have something people want to sell. But they deserve to better

[video=youtube;OtQX9GHnOww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtQX9GHnOww[/video]
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I have seen these painting vids before and it's amazing how self aware elephants are of themselves and the world around them. That self portrait is better than I could paint and I like the flower as a final touch!
 
The elephant paintings are a con. They are trained, through very harsh means, to obey the commands of their keepers, who direct their "creative" activities.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
The elephant paintings are a con. They are trained, through very harsh means, to obey the commands of their keepers, who direct their "creative" activities.
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Sounds like parochial school :rolleyes:
 
Sorry, but I am still confused when this ban officially goes into effect. Is it legal to sell ivory handle knives today?
 
TAH said:
Sorry, but I am still confused when this ban officially goes into effect. Is it legal to sell ivory handle knives today?
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As I understand it the regulations should come into effect in June. Ivory handled knives are currently being sold without restrictions.(within the US)
 
Steven65 said:
As I understand it the regulations should come into effect in June. Ivory handled knives are currently being sold without restrictions.(within the US)
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You neglect to mention that in more than one US state, the sale of any elephant ivory product is illegal, California being one example (penal code 653o). In fact, as I recall, the law reads something like "possession with intent to sell".
 
elementfe said:
Agreed. I'm not willing to join an organization that uses him as a front man.
I'm from Michigan, and knew him.
I don't care what his politics are, if you threaten and disrespect the President, you threaten and disrespect America and all who fight for our safety.
Click to expand...

A couple of things here, first, Ted is not their' front man. He is one of three that allows Kniferights to use his image and a quote. He is working with Kniferights to help protect your rights, along with the NRA and The Safari Club.

No one is asking you to join knife rights we are asking you to help us find a way to help us preserve elephants and the things we hold dear in the USA. I'm not talking about ivory handled knives, I'm talking about three basic fundamentals in American law. In case you haven't been following along, they are, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty and the fifth amendment. Here it is so you don't have to look it up.

"The Amendment requires that felonies be tried only upon indictment by a grand jury; the Grand Jury Clause is one of the few provisions of the Bill of Rights not held to have been incorporated to the states, most of which have replaced grand juries. The Amendment also provides several trial protections, including the right against self-incrimination (held to also apply to custodial interrogations and before most government bodies) as well as the right to be tried only once ("double jeopardy") in federal court for the same offense. The Amendment also has a Due Process Clause (similar to the one in the 14th Amendment) as well as an implied equal protection requirement (Bolling v. Sharpe). Finally, the Amendment requires that the power of eminent domain be coupled with "just compensation" for those whose property is taken."

If you still can't work with us because we are working with Kniferights, then do something, join Wildaid.

People will find a million reasons to not do anything, if at the end, we have no elephants and we give up all the things I mentioned above because you (and others) did nothing, it is our fault. We get the government we deserve and we will only have the flora and fauna we care enough about to keep.

I would rather people use this thread to talk about what they are going to do instead of what they ain't gunna do.
 
Wildaid's website clearly stated, "When the buying stops, so can the killing." I commend you for reaching out to them. But it sounds like they don't like your business at all.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Mark,
From many YEARS of telephone work I can say you were most likely talking to someone that could say no, but couldn't or wouldn't say yes because of a personal emotional response and most likely was just a volunteer answering the phone.

Did you ask for a higher up manager or "Coordinator" of fund raising? Ask who the big cheese regarding FUND RAISING around there is and discuss this with them. Just a suggestion for you when soliciting anything by telephone.
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Hi Laurence (and everyone), I did as you suggested, I asked for a supervisor, and once again, got politely shot down.

Here's the exchange, I have deleted most of his contact info so we don't become a pain in his butt,

From: Brian [mailto:adams@wildaid.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:59 PM
To: cuttingedge@gci.net
Subject: WildAid inquiry

Hello Mark,

My colleague Carolina forwarded your generous offer to assist WildAid by fundraising and enlisting your associates to take our pledge. While we do appreciate your willingness to help us, your use of endangered animal products prohibits us from partnering with you on a fundraising campaign. As Carolina mentioned, we are working with governments to ultimately ban the ivory trade, similar to the 1989 ban, since the legal trade is used as cover to launder illegal products. We also believe that the legal trade creates a marketplace, a need that cannot be satisfied with the legal supply, therefore requiring the illegal market to meet demand.

Thank you for understanding our position. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Brian

Brian Adams
US Communications Director
WILDAID
744 Montgomery Street #300
San Francisco, CA 94111

www.wildaid.org

Skype: wildaid_adams

I continue to try, here's my answer,

Hi Brian, Thank you for taking the time to write to me, I hope we can talk a little bit more.

You have made a couple of assumptions that I would like to point out to you. I personally do not use materials from endangered species. I don’t use elephant ivory, I don’t buy it, don’t sell it. I am an ivory dealer of legal ivory, I buy fossil walrus ivory and mammoth ivory from mostly native people. I clean it up and prepare it for use by knife makers and carvers of all kinds. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the use of legal elephant ivory, I just prefer ivory with color. I live in Alaska and fossil walrus and mammoth ivory are obtainable to me. Not so elephant ivory, legal elephant ivory comes from estates and the like in the lower 48. If I was a greedy person, I would be in favor of a ban to end the sale of elephant ivory in the US. It would be good for my business, but I am looking at the bigger picture.

I work with the USF&S on a weekly basis to make sure I and other people do the right thing. I know the great majority of the people that deal in legal elephant ivory do the same thing. To assume otherwise is disingenuous and a gross injustice to good people. We are all watched very closely by the USF&W Service and work very hard to comply with laws and regulations, to do otherwise would put us out of business quickly.

Studies by ETIS show that the ban of 1989 is working very well in the US, they show that from the years 2000 to 2008 less than 2000 kilos was reported seized at US borders and even better, from the years 2008 to 2013 the amount was so small it was statistically insignificant. The US is not listed as a designation for ivory poached today. The study shows what little post-ban ivory that is coming to US borders is from people visiting other countries and wanting to bring home a souvenir, not raw ivory that craftsmen use. The recent crushing of the 25 year US accumulation, only 5.4 tons of ivory, 240 pounds a year, further shows how well the ban of 1989 is working in the US. The studies also show that the US leads the way, out of 89 countries studied, in fighting trafficking of illicit wildlife parts. This is all good news to everybody.

I think that you and I agree that education of the people in Asia, the US and Africa is the most effective thing we can do to help save elephants. We agree that no elephant ivory should come to the US, and that penalties should be harsh for those that engage in the trafficking of illicit animal parts. We agree that people in Asia are using legal ivory to mask illegal ivory.

I hope where we disagree is not an impasse for us. There are thousands of good people in the US that have followed the law and done the right thing. I believe to change the laws that they have been operating under for almost thirty years to make their activities illegal, especially when studies show the US is not part of the problem, is not a proper thing to do.

I think that the problem of poaching in Africa is too big a problem for us to fight if we are busy fighting amongst ourselves. We’re going to try and do our share to try and solve the problem in Africa, we would much rather give money to you for your good work, than use it to preserve our rights. I just think we can do a lot more if we work together instead of fighting with each other.

We are not your enemies, I hope we can be friends, and allies.

Sincerely, Mark
 
One more thing, The bylaws of CKCA the Custom Knife Collectors Association, do not allow them to engage in any political activity, I believe they could help us raise money to help save elephants but they can't help us raise any funds for legislation. So, this is an official call for nominations of the board of directors for C-CHESS (Craftsmen, Collectors and Hunters for Endangered Species Survival this is a temporary working name, it can be changed) We will need active participants to fill four executive positions, President, VP, Treasurer and Secretary and five other voting positions. You may nominate yourself or others. Hopefully we can get people that have done this sort of thing before to streamline it a little. Barring any real movement in this direction, we will need to find another way to do what we need to do.
 
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