New York knife laws

so I guess a Kershaw leek is out of the question?? why don't you just ask the local DA's office what the law says?? I am sure they will not lie to you.
 
shengq said:
why not carry a pocket sized fix blade? if the blade is less than 4 inches, it is legal to be carried concealed.
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I don't see an issue with this, as long as it is NOT a double edge. Unless I am missing something.

There are some really nice small fixed blades out there.

BTW, interesting NYC knife story from an acquaintance of mine. He is from PA and went to Times Square on New Years Eve. Prior to going through the metal detector, or wanding (he was on line), he called over a police officer and told her that he had a pocket knife because it was legal where he comes from. The PO asked how long the blade was and he said it was under 4". The PO asked to see the knife discreetly and he showed her. The PO called over her sergeant and he asked to see it. He asked to see it and again asked how long it was, then said (according to this guy), "I don't see a knife," and told him to just keep in in his pocket. It was a one handed knife with a blade under four inches. A few folks I know were there and backed up his story.
 
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Don't judge New Year's Eve detail officer's actions as the "norm". They are told NOT to go into the crowd to arrest someone and not to look for simple arrests for offenses. Crowd control is their order of the day. The logistics of moving a person in custody to a secure area for transport is not worth it for a low level crime. That said, most officers are not looking to make an arrest for every person carrying a knife. The crime reduction units ( conditions units and street crime) and transit guys are the most likely to make a arrest for simple possession of a pocket knife. Most others don't go after these arrests.
 
tom19176 said:
Don't judge New Year's Eve detail officer's actions as the "norm". They are told NOT to go into the crowd to arrest someone and not to look for simple arrests for offenses. Crowd control is their order of the day. The logistics of moving a person in custody to a secure area for transport is not worth it for a low level crime. That said, most officers are not looking to make an arrest for every person carrying a knife. The crime reduction units ( conditions units and street crime) and transit guys are the most likely to make a arrest for simple possession of a pocket knife. Most others don't go after these arrests.
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I hear you, me personally - I would never chance it. I carry a non locking, non-flickable spyderco with a 1 1/2" (at best) blade or a small fixed blade. Unless I am on my way hunting, I will not have a one handed opener on me. Some say I worry too much but it is not worth the hassle.
 
As far as asking the DA, if you live in Nassau county forget about it...Rice's office may indeed lie to you. She falsely charged a bunch of Gun Stores with crimes that they weren't committing. I have no confidence in her ability to be honest.

You can carry a balisong...it's legal there's a string of cases saying it's not a gravity knife. That being said many police officers don't know the law so you may want to consider bringing a copy of the statute and cases with you lol.

A folding knife I like for carrying purposes is a Kershaw 2420. It cannot be swung open by holding the blade. It cannot be opened by a wrist flick. The only way to open it is with your thumb on the thumb stud.

At the end of the day until the da/officers are forced to properly enforce the laws best case scenario is that you may beat the rap but not the ride. In my opinion the legal system in NY does not work as intended by our founders.
 
Judicata, not too sure I would recommend the carrying of a balisong, as you are spot on with the several court cases saying it is not a GRAVITY knife since it does not lock automatically, BUT the charge of "Dangerous Knife" has stuck with arrests for them. Judges go along with the idea they are weapons by design....

The Kershaw 2420 is one of my favorite EDCs!!! I opened mine up and adjusted the tension on lock as they can be flicked open when new. Mine can not flick open now. Yours maybe tight, but the NIB ones I have handled have all been able to flick open till adjusted. They do act as a sort of assisted opener to therefore the name Liner Action 2420.

As for Marty ( the owner of T and T who was the lead guy arrested in the Nassau case you mentioned), I am see him at a show today ( he normally goes to) and he is sueing them. The case never went pass the arrest stage.
 
Tom And Tgace what if your intent of a fixed blade carry is to defend yourself against animal attacks I do hiking and cross training by an industrial yard with dogs , I feel a need to carry a fixed blade. For other posters please do not suggest pepper spray or other methods of self defense, I am skilled with a knife and pepper spray can be dangerous on a windy day.

I am in suffolk county. Thanks for a follow up.
 
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In Suffolk, you can carry a knife either openly or concealed. The Suffolk PD don't normally enforced the gravity knife laws as the NYPD does, but a fixed blade is a good choice in your case. Carrying any knife as a weapon is illegal, so that can't be your stated use of the knife, but having a fixed blade that is non weapon like ( no double edge of tanto blade), and of a reasonable blade length used for general cutting and needs while hiking should be fine.
 
See the thing is...for law being a "black letter" thing, it's application is a lot of gray.

If you are dressed as a camper, with a back-pack, a VW Van loaded with gear and you stop at a gas station with a survival knife strapped to your leg a cop probably won't look twice at you. If you are hopping on the subway downtown? Different story.

A lot of the "can I carry this" type of questions are difficult to answer with a yes or no.

You can legally own just about anything short of a switchblade, gravity knife, metal knuckle knife or ballistic knife in NY..hell, even a switchblade or gravity knife is legal if you are hunting/fishing/trapping when you have it on you. Carrying it? It really depends on the circumstances around why you have it on you. Carrying a fixed blade fighting knife for self-defense can get you a mixed bag of results if you come in contact with the cops.

Of course, in many jurisdictions, you could go your lifetime carrying a concealed fixed blade daily because you are the type of person who only runs into cops when you roll through a stop sign. If you are the type to frequent drinking establishments strapping a pig sticker...different story.

And playing games with "well I was just coming back from trapping" as an excuse if you run into a cop is a bad idea...do you think they don't hear excuses on a daily basis?

My personal .02...and only mine...as if I was still a patrol cop...is that a pocket folder wouldn't make me arrest you for simply possessing it. A concealed dagger? Depending on why I'm talking to you and how I found it? It might. If I stopped you for a headlight out and you pipe up with "I have a knife on me just so you know" I (once again ME PERSONALLY) would probably not care as long as you have no wants/warrants/bad criminal record. If I see you sneaking around a business late at night? Well....what do you think?

Oddly enough, having a legal carry permit and a pistol in NY can be easier to navigate with the police than a fixed blade.
 
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I am not too familiar with those two knives. The knife law is so subjective that you never get the same answer twice from those in charge of enforcing the law. tgrace has some good opinions, and I agree with most of what he said. Location within NY is a the biggest factor, followed by your activity when questioned and past record. In NYC there are a few locations where any knife will result in some sort of trouble. One of my workers received a summons for an exposed pocket clip while in uniform as an engineer with a tool belt on. The female officer told him it will be dropped in court when she wrote the summons. It was dropped, but the law clearly allows for him to carry a knife exposed while working in that sort of job. My point is you never know how an officer seeking numbers or just with an attitude may act.
 
tom19176 said:
My point is you never know how an officer seeking numbers or just with an attitude may act.
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That's a key point and to add to it...based on your location you may not know exactly HOW the local LE is applying the law. I hate to criticize how others do their jobs but let me give you an analog for way of comparison.

In NY there is a law against marijuana possession. PL 221.05 is "simple possession"...I find a baggie on you. It's a violation level offense, almost like a penal law traffic ticket, cant hold you on bail for it, adjudicated with a fine (no jail time allowed). Not really a "big deal" in terms of an arrest.

PL 221.10 is "criminal possession" and a B misdemeanor. This is if you are caught smoking marijuana in public or have the weed "in public view".

The "spirit" of 221.10 was simply to make open/blatant use of weed have more of a penalty than simply having some in your pocket or getting caught with/smoking it in a private place.

What NYPD was doing (till recently) was having people they were contacting on the street during "stop and frisks" empty their pockets and if a bag of weed came out considered it "in public view" and charged them with the B misdemeanor. This IMO was a "chicken @#$%" arrest and way outside the scope of what that section was intended for. Why did they do this? Was it a misunderstanding of the law? Was it an attempt to get more court overtime (A misdemeanor gets you court where a violation may not)? Was it individual officers doing this on their own or a policy set by their bosses? Who knows?

LE is very "area specific" when it comes to stuff like this. Here where I am, in the same state, we would never do the above.

Apply this lesson to knife carry.....
 
tgrace, NYC has the NYPD a number driven department. The example you noted was common practice for certain crime reduction units that had set "goals" for them to meet monthly to prove activity. I have posted before, that in response to robbery spikes, these units are often instructed to make "weapons" arrests to show a proactive response to a growing robbery spike. That is when the NYPD Conditions, Street Crime and others look for those knife pocket clips more than normal. It is a daily hunt for the TD ( transit division) guys.
The open possession case you posted has stopped but after how many people ended up with a B Misd ( which is a crime ) arrest record, and a possible Misd conviction, which leaves them with a criminal record.
 
As a teen on LI, I can say that our laws are more relaxed than in NYC. I'm not sure what knives are in question, but I will say some of what I know. First of all, folders are OK pocket-clip in or out. However, they must be around 3.5" long (or roughly the size of your palm). Gravity knives, switchblades, and balisongs are illegal, as well as extendable batons (unless your some sort of security guard personnel) and any bludgeoning device i.e. black-jack. Fixed blades can be carried any way you want, and can be basically limitless in length. However, double-edged knives are not allowed. In NYC, everything is the same except pocket clips cannot be showing, and fixed blades must be around 4" and must be concealed. Also, on LI, any knife that can be flicked open without the assist of the thumb are considered gravity knives. Spring assisted folders are fine on LI though I'm not sure about NYC. I hope this helps! But remember, I am a teenager, so the cops worry more about me causing trouble than someone who is older than me. Take from that what you will, and remember to take my word with a grain of salt, as different specific areas may vary in what is accepted. JS, I have carried basically all types of knives (even some illegal ones) and even with me and my devilish, teenager ways, I have never been caught or searched. Good luck out there!
 
One more thing, you cannot carry brass-knuckles, a knife that covers any part of your knuckle or hand i.e. metal knuckle knife, a ballistic knife, throwing stars, throwing knives, or nunchaku!
 
tgace said:
See the thing is...for law being a "black letter" thing, it's application is a lot of gray.

If you are dressed as a camper, with a back-pack, a VW Van loaded with gear and you stop at a gas station with a survival knife strapped to your leg a cop probably won't look twice at you. If you are hopping on the subway downtown? Different story.
A lot of the "can I carry this" type of questions are difficult to answer with a yes or no.

You can legally own just about anything short of a switchblade, gravity knife, metal knuckle knife or ballistic knife in NY..hell, even a switchblade or gravity knife is legal if you are hunting/fishing/trapping when you have it on you. Carrying it? It really depends on the circumstances around why you have it on you. Carrying a fixed blade fighting knife for self-defense can get you a mixed bag of results if you come in contact with the cops.

Of course, in many jurisdictions, you could go your lifetime carrying a concealed fixed blade daily because you are the type of person who only runs into cops when you roll through a stop sign. If you are the type to frequent drinking establishments strapping a pig sticker...different story.

And playing games with "well I was just coming back from trapping" as an excuse if you run into a cop is a bad idea...do you think they don't hear excuses on a daily basis?

My personal .02...and only mine...as if I was still a patrol cop...is that a pocket folder wouldn't make me arrest you for simply possessing it. A concealed dagger? Depending on why I'm talking to you and how I found it? It might. If I stopped you for a headlight out and you pipe up with "I have a knife on me just so you know" I (once again ME PERSONALLY) would probably not care as long as you have no wants/warrants/bad criminal record. If I see you sneaking around a business late at night? Well....what do you think?

Oddly enough, having a legal carry permit and a pistol in NY can be easier to navigate with the police than a fixed blade.
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Tgace , when you go through the academy is there training on how to navigate through knife issues?
 
Knife law training is a small part of one class one day. If you blink you will miss the details....
 
JAMerolle said:
Tgace , when you go through the academy is there training on how to navigate through knife issues?
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Knives are just one item in a class explaining the 265 section of the NY penal law. The specific way an officer handles application of the law really isn't "learned" till field training at the officers particular dept.
 
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