New ZT/Hinderer Flipper is Coming!!!0560/0561

I wonder how long it would take to get this thread to 5,000 posts if we all really tried?
 
I definitely like seeing the Brown scales! I hope Kershawguy gets an early order and I am close to the top of the list! :D
 
Thanks, Thomas. Looks good. Guys, I've been in marketing and sales for almost 20 years and Thomas is doing a good job keeping us updated. He answers to someone too. You have to remember he can only do so much. Thank the good Lord he loves knives and understands our excitement.

This is sales and when someone loves your product it makes you happy and excited. Thomas is happy and excited. If he could put one in each of our hands tomorrow he would. Its not in his control. So go easy and remember he's on our side and wants to make us all happy. If he didn't this thread would have died a long time ago.

Bottom line.... Be thankful that this knife is coming and we get updates first hand right here on BF. Lets not jeopardize loosing that.
 
The brown scales look rich. Oh baby, I am glad that's what I am getting. I'm calling the 0561... "Sexy chocolate"
 
Thomas W said:
Oh please. The secondary market regularly brings forth upticks (some very substantial) in pricing with all kinds of knives, and you know this. While a premium priced knife may not be for you, it works for a pretty big segment of the knife buying community. This is not a bad thing, and I'm unsure why you're making it sound that way.
Click to expand...
Thomas,
I know that the secondary market bring substantial upticks. That doesn’t change my opinion.

As far as “Premium pricing” goes, that sound like a euphemism for “overpriced”, especially if the seller is purchasing the product at MAP and flipping it for a profit. No honor there. I do consider that practice “a bad thing”. But that’s just me.

There are hundreds of guys waiting for their 0560's, or wanting to buy one now, and you're happy that some guy hoarded 5 of them to sell for a huge profit?
Gee, thanks a lot. 4 prospective buyers could have ordered one from Canada at retail pricing. Instead, they are looking at some jerk trying to scalp them. I fail to see the good in this.

I have owned 6 ZT’s. Every one of them was a great knife, especially for the price point.
Some of them didn’t fill my needs and I sold them, or gave them away. There was nothing wrong with them; they just weren’t what I wanted in the end.

There was not one ZT model that was worth $140 more than what I paid for it. Not one.

The $400 price point is where you start to see very high quality knives. F/F, materials and overall engineering are usually a step or two above $250 knives. It’s a difference you can see and feel, and you know why you paid the extra. You also don’t feel cheated, or that you paid too much when you experience a really fine folder.

If people want to pay 50% more than they could, or should, fine. I understand wanting something so badly that you make poor financial decisions and pay more than you should. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the product you bought isn’t worth what you paid for it.

If somebody really, really, wants a 0560 because he thinks he can never own a real Hinderer, and considers this the next best thing, then spending $400 for a $260 knife may make him happy for a while. But he isn’t going to experience the wonder of a high end knife just because he paid the price of admission.
You can pay $250,000 for a Corvette because you really want it, but that doesn’t make it a Ferrari. It just makes it an overpriced Corvette.
 
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What ever the market will bear. I just don't have to be part of the market. :p

The price will go down as supply goes up.

I will be waiting and hoping for an email from Jason.:D
 
bearcut said:
Thomas,
I know that the secondary market bring substantial upticks. That doesn’t change my opinion.

As far as “Premium pricing” goes, that sound like a euphemism for “overpriced”, especially if the seller is purchasing the product at MAP and flipping it for a profit. No honor there. I do consider that practice “a bad thing”. But that’s just me.

There are hundreds of guys waiting for their 0560's, or wanting to buy one now, and you're happy that some guy hoarded 5 of them to sell for a huge profit?
Gee, thanks a lot. 4 prospective buyers could have ordered one from Canada at retail pricing. Instead, they are looking at some jerk trying to scalp them. I fail to see the good in this.

I have owned 6 ZT’s. Every one of them was a great knife, especially for the price point.
Some of them didn’t fill my needs and I sold them, or gave them away. There was nothing wrong with them; they just weren’t what I wanted in the end.

There was not one ZT model that was worth $140 more than what I paid for it. Not one.

The $400 price point is where you start to see very high quality knives. F/F, materials and overall engineering are usually a step or two above $250 knives. It’s a difference you can see and feel, and you know why you paid the extra. You also don’t feel cheated, or that you paid too much when you experience a really fine folder.

If people want to pay 50% more than they could, or should, fine. I understand wanting something so badly that you make poor financial decisions and pay more than you should. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the product you bought isn’t worth what you paid for it.

If somebody really, really, wants a 0560 because he thinks he can never own a real Hinderer, and considers this the next best thing, then spending $400 for a $260 knife may make him happy for a while. But he isn’t going to experience the wonder of a high end knife just because he paid the price of admission.
You can pay $250,000 for a Corvette because you really want it, but that doesn’t make it a Ferrari. It just makes it an overpriced Corvette.
Click to expand...

I don't see this going anywhere productive. Just my thoughts. We're talking knives not cars :)
 
bearcut said:
Thomas,
I know that the secondary market bring substantial upticks. That doesn’t change my opinion.

As far as “Premium pricing” goes, that sound like a euphemism for “overpriced”, especially if the seller is purchasing the product at MAP and flipping it for a profit. No honor there. I do consider that practice “a bad thing”. But that’s just me.

There are hundreds of guys waiting for their 0560's, or wanting to buy one now, and you're happy that some guy hoarded 5 of them to sell for a huge profit?
Gee, thanks a lot. 4 prospective buyers could have ordered one from Canada at retail pricing. Instead, they are looking at some jerk trying to scalp them. I fail to see the good in this.

I have owned 6 ZT’s. Every one of them was a great knife, especially for the price point.
Some of them didn’t fill my needs and I sold them, or gave them away. There was nothing wrong with them; they just weren’t what I wanted in the end.

There was not one ZT model that was worth $140 more than what I paid for it. Not one.

The $400 price point is where you start to see very high quality knives. F/F, materials and overall engineering are usually a step or two above $250 knives. It’s a difference you can see and feel, and you know why you paid the extra. You also don’t feel cheated, or that you paid too much when you experience a really fine folder.

If people want to pay 50% more than they could, or should, fine. I understand wanting something so badly that you make poor financial decisions and pay more than you should. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the product you bought isn’t worth what you paid for it.

If somebody really, really, wants a 0560 because he thinks he can never own a real Hinderer, and considers this the next best thing, then spending $400 for a $260 knife may make him happy for a while. But he isn’t going to experience the wonder of a high end knife just because he paid the price of admission.
You can pay $250,000 for a Corvette because you really want it, but that doesn’t make it a Ferrari. It just makes it an overpriced Corvette.
Click to expand...

Sounds like free enterprise to me, and it is worth whatever they will pay, Ebay has proven this Millions of times. If someone wants to be impatient, let them. As long as those of us that have promised these knives at a certain price don't get greedy, it's all good. I saw some tilts go for $400 plus, the rest of us sold them for a much more reasonable amount because we said we would, am I glad to some go for big bucks ? You bet !!!!
 
Nobody was forced to pay more than the retail price, if they did so they did it of their own free will. I will say that I think it's bad form to try to profit that much BUT that's just my opinion and once again nobody was forced to do so.

I own a few folders in the $400 and up range and I must say that none of them are twice as nice as my 0551. I haven't held the 0560 yet but if it's as nice as I expect it to be, then like the 0551, you're getting to a point of diminishing returns until you jump up a good bit more in price.
 
kershawguy said:
Sounds like free enterprise to me, and it is worth whatever they will pay, Ebay has proven this Millions of times. If someone wants to be impatient, let them. As long as those of us that have promised these knives at a certain price don't get greedy, it's all good. I saw some tilts go for $400 plus, the rest of us sold them for a much more reasonable amount because we said we would, am I glad to some go for big bucks ? You bet !!!!
Click to expand...

Some guy buys five 0560’s to sell at wildly inflated prices causing five other potential buyers to suddenly be priced out of the market.

They each could have bought a 0560 at the $260 price, but now they can’t.

Both the Moderator and a Kershaw dealer think this is a good thing.

You decide.
 
bearcut said:
Thomas,
I know that the secondary market bring substantial upticks. That doesn’t change my opinion.

As far as “Premium pricing” goes, that sound like a euphemism for “overpriced”, especially if the seller is purchasing the product at MAP and flipping it for a profit. No honor there. I do consider that practice “a bad thing”. But that’s just me.

There are hundreds of guys waiting for their 0560's, or wanting to buy one now, and you're happy that some guy hoarded 5 of them to sell for a huge profit?
Gee, thanks a lot. 4 prospective buyers could have ordered one from Canada at retail pricing. Instead, they are looking at some jerk trying to scalp them. I fail to see the good in this.

I have owned 6 ZT’s. Every one of them was a great knife, especially for the price point.
Some of them didn’t fill my needs and I sold them, or gave them away. There was nothing wrong with them; they just weren’t what I wanted in the end.

There was not one ZT model that was worth $140 more than what I paid for it. Not one.

The $400 price point is where you start to see very high quality knives. F/F, materials and overall engineering are usually a step or two above $250 knives. It’s a difference you can see and feel, and you know why you paid the extra. You also don’t feel cheated, or that you paid too much when you experience a really fine folder.

If people want to pay 50% more than they could, or should, fine. I understand wanting something so badly that you make poor financial decisions and pay more than you should. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the product you bought isn’t worth what you paid for it.

If somebody really, really, wants a 0560 because he thinks he can never own a real Hinderer, and considers this the next best thing, then spending $400 for a $260 knife may make him happy for a while. But he isn’t going to experience the wonder of a high end knife just because he paid the price of admission.
You can pay $250,000 for a Corvette because you really want it, but that doesn’t make it a Ferrari. It just makes it an overpriced Corvette.
Click to expand...


Bearcut, I am going to do my best to temper my words here, because your tone is pretty insulting.

First, as a manufacturer, we figure out what we need to sell our products for so we can cover our costs and make a profit. We sell at that price to dealers or distributors, and we then suggest a retail price. While we control how low the price can be, it is up to the dealer to set their own price. Sometimes when a knife is in short supply and high demand, you will encounter people who inflate the price. It's supply and demand, and you see it every day (particularly at the gas pump). What this means to you the consumer is that you are getting a great product, and if you wait until the supply catches up with demand, you will get a better price. Look at the secondary market on Rick Hinder's customs - I've seen $500 production XM-24's go for over $1200 - bone stock with a machine ground blade. Some people are not willing to pay a premium to have something early, but some people are, and that's how capitalism works. We don't control that.

Just because our products are often sold at a discounted price, that doesn't mean that they are only worth that much. If you really think the 0560 is only worth $250, you have obviously never handled one. I would put this knife up against knives that cost twice the price, and I believe it would hold its own. Sometimes an item is worth more than what you paid for it - that's what you call a great value. I'm not a fan of price scalping, but how many knives even have 3D machined titanium, bearing washers, Elmax blade steel, and an award winning design by one of the hottest makers in the industry? It sure sounds like it's worth more that $250 bucks to me.

No one is saying that they want to see our customers pay too much for anything. The point is that it's pretty exciting to see that people want your product badly enough to pay a premium for it. It means that we're one the right track, and it's nice to see your projects succeed. What I would take away form this is not that someone got fooled into paying $400 for a $250 knife. I would say that you are getting a $400 knife for $250 bucks. How can anybody have a problem with that?
 
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bearcut said:
Some guy buys five 0560’s to sell at wildly inflated prices causing five other potential buyers to suddenly be priced out of the market.

They each could have bought a 0560 at the $260 price, but now they can’t.

Both the Moderator and a Kershaw dealer think this is a good thing.

You decide.
Click to expand...

See my first post. No one is saying this. And $75 over MSRP is high, but not what I would call wildly inflated.

$260 is the MINIMUM advertised price - suggested retail is $325. $260 is the lowest price that our dealers are allowed to sell for. The reason you are seeing this price is because a lot of dealers decided to offer pre-orders. They asked people to make an order up front - in exchange they gave a great price for the knife. As the supply fills in, you should see more dealers asking more for the knives to make up for some of the lost profit of the pre-orders.

By the way, that dealer you are calling out is one of the guys selling it for $260. Give the man some credit here.
 
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I paid $325, I know the price was higher then most sites are offering it for, but to have it before anyone else, the extra $$$ was worth it. Regardless in Ontario, Canada all prices would be plus the 13% tax, so even if I waited the best deal I would have gotten is $260+13%, $293.80 not to mention shipping costs. In reality I didn't pay much more then if I would have waited a few months. $25 or so. I wouldn't pay $400 but at least people have the option to get it a bit early if they don't want to wait. I think the 560 is a high quality knife, worth much more then suggested retail price. It's not right for somebody to hike up the price, but it's their decision, and is not hurting anyone. (maybe a few apparently lol)
 
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