New ZT/Hinderer Flipper is Coming!!!0560/0561

jimmer_5 said:
Bearcut, I am going to do my best to temper my words here, because your tone is pretty insulting.

First, as a manufacturer, we figure out what we need to sell our products for so we can cover our costs and make a profit. We sell at that price to dealers or distributors, and we then suggest a retail price. While we control how low the price can be, it is up to the dealer to set their own price. Sometimes when a knife is in short supply and high demand, you will encounter people who inflate the price. It's supply and demand, and you see it every day (particularly at the gas pump). What this means to you the consumer is that you are getting a great product, and if you wait until the supply catches up with demand, you will get a better price. Look at the secondary market on Rick Hinder's customs - I've seen $500 production XM-24's go for over $1200 - bone stock with a machine ground blade. people are not willing to pay a premium to have something early, but some people are, and that's how capitalism works. We don't control that.

Just because our products are often sold at a discounted price, that doesn't mean that they are only worth that much. If you really think the 0560 is only worth $250, you have obviously never handled one. I would put this knife up against knives that cost twice the price, and I believe it would hold its own. Sometimes an item is worth more than what you paid for it - that's what you call a great value.

No one is saying that they want to see our customers pay too much for anything. The point is that it's pretty exciting to see that people want your product badly enough to pay a premium for it. It means that we're one the right track, and it's nice to see your projects succeed.
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Well said, in any case, the value of an item is determined by how much you want to pay for it. Of course there are always those people willing to shell out 2-3 times the price for something, just because they want. If you don't think it's worth $260, then don't buy it. More for us:thumbup:
 
clockman said:
Bearcut is talking about the guys paying $400 for a $260 knife......$140 too much. They don't seem to care that they over paid.
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Right...so agin...my point was the the" Too much". Msrp is posted at $325, most sights sell for $260-270...like other ZT's How much under msrp is are they "worth" how much over msrp are they "worth". Some are on evilbay selling for $400 and the knife is "worth" $260...is that all it's worth.
 
bearcut said:
Some guy buys five 0560’s to sell at wildly inflated prices causing five other potential buyers to suddenly be priced out of the market.

They each could have bought a 0560 at the $260 price, but now they can’t.

Both the Moderator and a Kershaw dealer think this is a good thing.

You decide.
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Thomas and Kershawguy just understand supply and demand, they didn't say it was great that someone is charging that much for these knives. I wouldn't pay that much for the knife, I'll just be patient and wait, but there are clearly people that are willing to pay that and they feel that it is worth it. There is no need to throw a hissy-fit in this thread, if you don't like the way the ebayer is doing business email him and call him out on it, don't get mad at the manufacturer for it and tell them that their knives aren't worth the price they are being sold at.
 
bearcut said:
Thomas,
I know that the secondary market bring substantial upticks. That doesn’t change my opinion.

As far as “Premium pricing” goes, that sound like a euphemism for “overpriced”, especially if the seller is purchasing the product at MAP and flipping it for a profit. No honor there. I do consider that practice “a bad thing”. But that’s just me.

There are hundreds of guys waiting for their 0560's, or wanting to buy one now, and you're happy that some guy hoarded 5 of them to sell for a huge profit?
Gee, thanks a lot. 4 prospective buyers could have ordered one from Canada at retail pricing. Instead, they are looking at some jerk trying to scalp them. I fail to see the good in this.

I have owned 6 ZT’s. Every one of them was a great knife, especially for the price point.
Some of them didn’t fill my needs and I sold them, or gave them away. There was nothing wrong with them; they just weren’t what I wanted in the end.

There was not one ZT model that was worth $140 more than what I paid for it. Not one.

The $400 price point is where you start to see very high quality knives. F/F, materials and overall engineering are usually a step or two above $250 knives. It’s a difference you can see and feel, and you know why you paid the extra. You also don’t feel cheated, or that you paid too much when you experience a really fine folder.

If people want to pay 50% more than they could, or should, fine. I understand wanting something so badly that you make poor financial decisions and pay more than you should. However, it doesn’t change the fact that the product you bought isn’t worth what you paid for it.

If somebody really, really, wants a 0560 because he thinks he can never own a real Hinderer, and considers this the next best thing, then spending $400 for a $260 knife may make him happy for a while. But he isn’t going to experience the wonder of a high end knife just because he paid the price of admission.
You can pay $250,000 for a Corvette because you really want it, but that doesn’t make it a Ferrari. It just makes it an overpriced Corvette.
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Those guys are going to earn nothing. These are production pieces. ZT0551s are still showing up NIB on the exchange for $225 "as paid" plus a little for shipping. Worried about getting robbed, then don't pay over MAP to anyone. I can say with some certainty that these will show up in the exchange in the next few weeks or so -- for those who don't have a pre-order as well.

If I buy a knife and some little thing is found that truns me off, I dump it. I see this same thing on the exchange all the time or just needing to sell to pay an unexpected bill.

I think you're doing a lot of worrying about a non-issue. ;)
 
I think this knife not only holds its own but is better then many 400 dollar production knives, I mean think about what you can get for 400? sng, sj75, almost a plain sebenza, sr1 etc.. how is this knife not worth 400?
 
This topic has been under discussion for as long as I can remember. As always, a knife is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Money talks. All the rest is merely narrative.

Part of what sets a price is the scarcity of an item. The 0560/0561 is scarce now, of course. But the 0560/0561 is a PRODUCTION knife. And the day will come when there will be plenty of them to go around. So as I said before, I'm not going to pay more than MAAP for mine no matter how long it takes. Why? Because MAAP is all it's worth to me. YMMV.
 
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Thomas,

Are those pics of your workstation? Appreciate you working overtime to get these knives out to us.:D

Thomas is right, everything is going to be ok. :)
 
Well sorry to change the direction but my 560 came today.:applause:

This is the first time I have seen one in person and to say I'm excited is an understatement. The quality of this knife is amazing.
I think the quality of the 301 is great, but this seems to be on another level IMO. The smoothness, build quality, overall fit and finishis outstanding. I'm pretty picky looking for little flaws and can usually always find some little niggle that's not quite right. But I'm being completely honest here when I say this is flawless(at least on mine).

The first thing I noticed is how light and well balanced the knife is, but also how solid it feels. It just oozes quality in terms of looks and feel.
Mine has an early lock-up, is perfectly centred and has zero play in any direction. I can usually find a little bit play if I wiggle the tip firmly, but not on this. In terms of solid lock-up it is as good as I have ever seen. I will admit it if my knife has play, my 301 has a tiny amount of play only noticeble at the tip, but the 560 has none what so ever.

Anyway, you guys who are waiting for yours, hang in there, it is well worth the wait:)

So my initial thoughts of this knife are that it is OUTSTANDING. Congratulations to Kershaw/ZT for this amazing quality product.
 
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there was a deal with non us venders which already have the knife in stock. so i would assume within the next week or few we will see shipments going to out use vendors then they will in turn ship out the pre orders. but we won't have a official date until the day thomas sees them leave the warehouse. but be patient its can't be too much longer :D
 
Glad they're starting to appear, and CONGRATULATIONS! to those menbers who got theirs already.

As to folks willing to pay more for these knives, I take the outlook of A Famous Person [ I believe it was Rick Hinderer,but I'm not positive ] who said, and I quote:

'Somehow,this fails to disquiet me.'

I have no issue at all with those who pay $what$ever; it's nice knowing someone,somewhere feels this knife is worth that much.

Just gives me a greater appreciation. And doesn't hurt resale value,either.

Will end with another quotation from Another Famous Person [ whose name spelled backwards is: .W samohT ],who (whom?) in his infinite wisdom,typed these Immortal Words:

'e b oK.'
 
Also, not that im defending the actions of that individual/attacking him...gotta remember evilbay and their fees (which would roughly be 28 bucks..+ pp's 3% = 40 total. If he had got them from that store downtown (and im sure he got a better deal than what othres have listed that store selling them for) id be surprised if hes making 80 bucks a knife.

Just putting it out there!

And mines coming today ;). Ill shoot a couple of pics with its brother and the tilt. These past 2 weeks have been crazy with new knives (Kershaw tilt, sebenza insingo large, sebenza insingo small and now this one!) Im running out of pocket space :(
 
Nader Elhayek said:
....mines coming today ;). Ill shoot a couple of pics with its brother and the tilt. These past 2 weeks have been crazy with new knives (Kershaw tilt, sebenza insingo large, sebenza insingo small and now this one!) Im running out of pocket space :(
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An envious problem to have,Sir!
 
Nader Elhayek said:
Also, not that im defending the actions of that individual/attacking him...gotta remember evilbay and their fees (which would roughly be 28 bucks..+ pp's 3% = 40 total. If he had got them from that store downtown (and im sure he got a better deal than what othres have listed that store selling them for) id be surprised if hes making 80 bucks a knife.

Just putting it out there!

And mines coming today ;). Ill shoot a couple of pics with its brother and the tilt. These past 2 weeks have been crazy with new knives (Kershaw tilt, sebenza insingo large, sebenza insingo small and now this one!) Im running out of pocket space :(
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With a list like that I'd be way more concerned about my bank account being empty, over my pocket space being filled! lots of nice knives there!
 
jimmer_5 said:
See my first post. No one is saying this. And $75 over MSRP is high, but not what I would call wildly inflated.

$260 is the MINIMUM advertised price - suggested retail is $325. $260 is the lowest price that our dealers are allowed to sell for. The reason you are seeing this price is because a lot of dealers decided to offer pre-orders. They asked people to make an order up front - in exchange they gave a great price for the knife. As the supply fills in, you should see more dealers asking more for the knives to make up for some of the lost profit of the pre-orders.

By the way, that dealer you are calling out is one of the guys selling it for $260. Give the man some credit here.
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Thanks Jimmer.

Bearcat, if I decided not to sell the allotment I get on preorder I could sell every last one of them for what they are really worth ( whatever the market Brings) I chose not to, why, because I like to see people get a good deal, because I like a good deal. That being said, I consider a lot of my customers to be my friends as well. Lastly the only way someone can sell for an inflated price is if someone is willing to pay and unless it were drugs or something of a dependent nature, it does show value of said product.

KG
 
Now with "special sauce"? Is it true that the lockface is will have some special sauce?
I know Thomas gets a kick out of making us all drool and I wouldn't be surprised if he made sure the magic box was in thr shot just to see who noticed. He may not be able to post prototype pics but the guy is a genius at a sort of guerilla marketing and getting everyone in to a frenzy.

I don't know about the chef analogy. We're more like sharks waiting for a meal and Thomas keeps throwing out these pictures of knives like buckets of chum. When a juicy Tilt or 0560 gets tossed out everyone goes in to a feeding frenzy. $400 is too much for me to pay on top of my preorders but $400 is a good thing. It means the design is well liked and there is a strong demand for it. Kershaw/ZT will continue and there will be more great knives to come. If there will eventually be more to come then nobody loses and we all get fed in the end. Some
of us just get a taste earlier than others.
 
It boils down to one of to things with getting a 560/561.....have a little Patience or pay the Preimum price and get it sooner.
What's that old saying patiece is a virtue. Most of use need a little more patience.................



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