Newbies Forum - and Poll

Should Shop Talk Have a Change

  • Leave Shop Talk as it is

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add a Newbies Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add an Experienced and Learning Makers Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
38,508
Several of the members here have asked about separating Shop Talk into two separate forums. One for newer makers and one for the more experienced ones. One part of most of those requests has been the recent overload of basic users and brand new knifemakers who ask the same questions.

One of the members here has posted in Tech Support asking Spark to consider this. I feel it has merit. The thread and my response can be found here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1022953-Shoptalk-forum-idea-suggestion

I suggest you post your opinions on that thread ( and here,too) letting Spark know your feelings about this. Keep it short and to the point, as the super-mods have very little time for each thread.
 
Sorry, just a bit confused. The shop talk section is archived if im not mistaken? Is this poll with regards to the Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment forum? If so, id really like it if we could see more of the older posts. I only have access to 10 pages worth of posts which basically go back to november of 2012. It would be nice to have access to all the info.
 
No, this is about making a sub-forum in Shop Talk, like Around The Grinder. There would be the existing Shop Talk, and either a new Newbies Forum or a new Experienced Forum.
One suggestion is that the experienced forum have a paid membership requirement.
 
bladsmth said:
No, this is about making a sub-forum in Shop Talk, like Around The Grinder. There would be the existing Shop Talk, and either a new Newbies Forum or a new Experienced Forum.
One suggestion is that the experienced forum have a paid membership requirement.
Click to expand...

Gotcha! Sounds like a hell of a plan. Cant see the harm in doing it only the benefits
 
I could see the benefit of a sub-forum for beginner questions, just for the fact that it'll help clean up the forum. The main forum I hang out at is DFoggs forum, and they have a beginners place sub-forum, metallurgy, fit 'n' finish, leather working, etc... 1 or 2 sub-forums would help organise shoptalk. That way if I want to look at threads talking about metallurgy, I go to the metallurgy sub-forum, same for beginner type questions.



Just my $.02
 
I'd like to see an experienced and learning subforum. This would pretty much leave shop talk devoted primarily to new makers.
 
I think it sounds like a good idea, but for the newbie forum to be useful, experienced makers will have to go to the newbie forum and answer questions. I like the idea of it, but I don't know if it would work in the real world. I think the main problem is not new makers coming to Shop Talk to ask questions, it's new makers coming to Shop talk and telling other makers what they are doing wrong and why their plan for making a knife is better than the tried and tested methods. I've read and learned a lot, but I still haven't learned as much as some of these guys have forgotten. Where does a guy like me fit in?
 
Most newbs would never find a "newb subforum". They have enough trouble finding ST itself, often posting in general or M&E. They certainly can't be bothered to browse the stickies if/when they do find their way to ST. Making it more complicated for very basic questions to find their proper place would only make more work for the mods.

I think if a split is deemed necessary, another subforum like ARG for paid, experienced members would work much more smoothly.

My main concern is that ST in general (or wherever the newbs end up) will become barren of any real instruction and regress into little more than the ignorant leading the blind. At which point, you might as well lock new makers out altogether and lump 'em in with General Discussion.
 
james terrio said:
Most newbs would never find a "newb subforum". They have enough trouble finding ST itself, often posting in general or M&E. They certainly can't be bothered to browse the stickies if/when they do find their way to ST. Making it more complicated for very basic questions to find their proper place would only make more work for the mods.

I think if a split is deemed necessary, another subforum like ARG for paid, experienced members would work much more smoothly.

My main concern is that ST in general (or wherever the newbs end up) will become barren of any real instruction and regress into little more than the ignorant leading the blind. At which point, you might as well lock new makers out altogether and lump 'em in with General Discussion.
Click to expand...

James, the newbie forum would have to have a moderator, same as all other forums.
 
I personally feel that a separate Experienced and Learning Knifemakers sub-forum for paid memberships would help a bit. It would be no harder to find than ATG is.
Shop talk would stay as it is, and those posting on more complex subjects or not wishing to have to read the multitude of "How do I make a knife...." threads can just stick in the Experienced and Learning Makers sub-forum. There will still be a lot of folks with the experience to answer the newbies questions hanging in Shop Talk.

No change will solve all issues, and this thread was just to see how the bulk of folks feel. No need to structure anything or pick moderators yet.
 
Unfortunately yes it needs to be divided. I think you will see some good guys come back. It's not a bad thing that there are so many new makers/ hobbyist it just needs some organization. I would rather see it divided into a professional maker and hobby maker forum. This would weed out a lot of the nonsense. A lot of guys here including myself belong to some other forums where the problems that exist here are not present there...Why ? Because there if you make BS statements and exaggerate your skills you get called on it and you have to back-up what you say with proof (photos etc.) If you make a shank with daddy's bench grinder / drill sharpener and it looks like ...crap.... someone will tell you it looks like crap, and then offer to help. Also you have to be able to take some ribbing, don't wear your heart on your sleeve. You have to have a sense of humor. Every new machinist I know has been sent to maintenance to get a hole stretcher. So I say have a pro forum and a hobby/ newbie forum. I hope something works out because this place is losing a lot of good people.
 
I'd like to see an Experienced and Learning Makers forum. I think those of us who really want to learn and pick brains will find ourselves there.
 
Nader Elhayek said:
Sorry, just a bit confused. The shop talk section is archived if im not mistaken? Is this poll with regards to the Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment forum? If so, id really like it if we could see more of the older posts. I only have access to 10 pages worth of posts which basically go back to november of 2012. It would be nice to have access to all the info.
Click to expand...

You just have to go to the bottom of the page, change the "Thread Display Options" drop down from "one month" to "the beginning" and then hit the "show threads button"
I see 13,000 threads on 528 pages
 
As someone that can speak for those with less experience/knowledge with the sharp arts, my only concern would be that the forum would not be as great of a resource for beginners as it has been in the past. The reason for this is because when newbies ask questions (no matter how annoying) it is usually an experienced member that provides the best answer. I know I have learned a lot as a result of experienced members being so kind and sharing their insight (btw thanks again). I know it can be annoying but I would hate to be limited to a subforum of just the blind leading the blind:)
 
I think this is a wonderful idea. I'm not sure of the best way to implement it, mainly due to the sheer size of BF compared to the other knife forums. But I think restricting new makers to the "Newbie" forum would greatly help clear up some of the clutter.

I also like Chuck Bybees' idea. Contact established knifemakers and ask them why they don't post or stopped posting in Shop Talk. Use their answers to form the necessary changes.
 
tueller, IIRC, non-paid members can read in ATG and the services offered subforums, they just can't start threads or post there. So a pro/experienced subforum could be set up the same way without preventing anyone from looking up information.
 
Last edited:
Shawn Hatcher said:
I think this is a wonderful idea. I'm not sure of the best way to implement it, mainly due to the sheer size of BF compared to the other knife forums. But I think restricting new makers to the "Newbie" forum would greatly help clear up some of the clutter.

I also like Chuck Bybees' idea. Contact established knifemakers and ask them why they don't post or stopped posting in Shop Talk. Use their answers to form the necessary changes.
Click to expand...

That's probably the first step before any decisions are made.
 
Don't think it will work well at all. I see an experianced members forum becoming stagnant and stale, while the new members forum will be still full of pages of the same questions. Also, you would be pushing some makers further away by requiring a paid membership to post ocasionally on something they like.

I don't think it will bring anyone back to the forums, I think it will only be serving a few in the community of many.


-X
 
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