No flames last time. Lets try agian.

I'm no firearms expert and this may seem blatantly obvious so don't rip my head off, but I'm of the mindset that a firearm is a tool, and as long as you learn how to use that tool as well as you possibly can, the particulars of the tool aren't quite as important.

It's sort of like shooting pictures with a camera. A poor photographer can have a really expensive camera and still shoot unimpressive photos. A professional photographer can get a cheap "point and shoot" camera and shoot great pictures. Sure his pictures will be somewhat better with a better camera, but it's the skills that makes him good, not necessarily the equipment.

The old saying is (and you all know this by now) - Better to be missed by a .45 than hit with a .22.

I would encourage using the tool you're best at. If for whatever reason you're a better shot with a 9mm than a .45, then use it. If you can't handle those calibers but you're phenomenal with a .38, then use a .38.

But that's just my thinking. I could be wrong. :rolleyes:
 
Good question, YankeeWhite. The Savage bolt action is the long ranger and can't be beat so that's a no-brainer. The M4-Type thing lacks a little in the accuracy (and ergonomic) dept. over the standard 20 incher so it's really a 0 to 100 yarder as is the Marlin lever action. I've got too many damn calibers (not being an armory and all) and I shoot the Marlin better than the Bushmaster. Also, I'm not allowed to have 30 round magazines in NJ so what's the point.
If I ever get another battle rifle it'll be something in .308/7.62 to match the bolt action. Like maybe a Springfield M1A or a FN/FAL. My wife'll be so excited.
 
Anklepocket, forgot about those crazy laws. Guess you are not giving up much then. If I had to give up the hi-caps, maybe I'd be out there with my Marlin too. :D
I noticed with my M-4gery that the groups move out when compared to a 16" or 20". Still a handy sucker though.
 
Can I play? As an always civilian?

Not having any training or experiences in battle, my preferences would be .308 all the way for long arm. Hits harder and longer (range). Probably longer range than I could use, I'll admit, but I've actually hit torso targets out to 300 meters with the 5.56 on a range. So, the .308 should hit even harder at that range. I would love to get myself an AR-10.

As for 9mm vs. .45, I've thought a lot about this after participating in the thread by the same name over in Prac Tac. For home until I can get to the thuty-thuty, I'd prefer the .45. I'm comfortable with my 1911 pattern, do fine with the round (accuracy), and the sound isn't as sharp a craaaack as the 9mm. Outside on the road, or if it will be an unknown situation, Block (oops, I mean Glock 9mm every time. Best operating system for me that I have found other than the 1911, and it holds more rounds per brick... um... I mean, magazine. :)

Just some thoughts from a novice....
 
I'm a police officer (patrol) and, I prefer .308 bolt (Rem LTR) with a lot of proir knowledge and a good clean snipe spot. But I'm a realist. This above never happens in real life. Your just doing some dumd a** report when a knot head loses his mind and starts trying to kill people. So I would rather have a .556 with 2, 30 round mags to take care of buisness. Another reason for .556 is that police in general can't shoot worth a sh**, so you have to think about how far the missed rounds will go. Now again, reality, do I have access to a rifle on patrol? Hell no! Thats only for SERT (our SWAT), and they wont get their until after patrol has Taken care of buisness. I actually carry a .40 cal Glock with 46 rounds, and a 1964 Rem 870 converted by Wilson with 10 slugs. I can usualy make head shots at 60 yards with no stress, and probably couldent hit sh** in a fire fight. Just food for Thoght. SOX

If anyone was wondering. I accidently posted this as a new thread, origainaly, not a post reply. My Bad:D
 
Da fit hits the shan.... Well I carry a Glock 26 w/ten rounder for carry and 3 hicap mags. 9mm is my choice although .45acp is a great round it is heavy to me and as many of the officers and mil spec individuals have pointed out firepower is important. 9mm would also be my chioce for rifle as well; read(ease of ammo ident)... the thing is I really dont have a rifle for this kind of thing besides my .223 Colt AR. (post-ban) good 20" heavy barrel.... So I pick .223 and 9mm.
 
Send me an e-mail ... I have a SV that you could build on.

and why are there stirrup cuts on the slide with a full length dust cover frame?!?!?! er ...
 

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If it's in the bush, I'll take a .308 every time over the 5.56. For CQC, a 5.56. For urban terrain it would be a hard choice between the versatility of the .223 vs the penetration and distance of the .308. And this is in semi-autos. If it's bolt action, .308 every time. If it's full auto only, probably .223.

As far as platforms... I like the M1A better than the FAL but both will do in a pinch. Like the G36 the best out of the .223s - I'm just not a fan of the AR's gas operating system.

I also prefer the .45 to the 9mm. Not because of any perceived superiority of the round, just because I like the impulse better and the fact that 230gr. bullets do very well out of suppressors. Started on a 1911 platform and was won over by the USP .45. Have a G27 (.40)for CCW but will probably replace it with a P7M8 when the funds allow.

I'd like to see how civil everyone can be on an AK vs. AR thread.

BTW, all things being the same the M4 bbl should be as accurate as the 20" bbls, once you compensate for slightly diminished velocity.
 
Originally posted by krept
I'd like to see how civil everyone can be on an AK vs. AR thread.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I'd like to see that myself.

Speaking of AKs, I'll toss this out for comment.

I was watching the History Channel's special on the Special Forces in Desert Shield/Storm. Some of the footage that they had was supposedly of SEALs and/or Green Berets, or maybe Delta, moving out on a reconnaisance mission. As several guys filed by, I could positively identify two apparent M4 patterns, but one definite AK-47 pattern. In another clip, where they were definitely talking about US Army Special Forces, they showed two guys in the desert with M-14's.

Seems like a logistical nightmare to me.
 
Ok, now that I reread this thread I can be more specific.

I'd take the .223 over the .308 even though I prefer the .308. Chances are if I'm in a firefight it's going to be short range or even indoors. I'm sure that greentips can go fine through drywall. Generic milsurp ammo does decent damage, far better than any pistol ammo I know of besides maybe the RCBD stuff.

I guess it comes down to not wanting a .308 for CQC more than not wanting a .223 for looong range.

As far as pistol rounds... I'm not going to dick around with the pitiful laws related magazine capacity and pay upwards of $100 EXTRA for a full cap magazine (where legal, you Cali guys are screwed. Use a preban mag and expect to get even more hell.) Thus, my choice for pistol caliber doesn't really factor capacity. Playing around with 230gr ball as a kid... the .45 just brings back good memories for me.

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As far as the AK vs. AR. I have heard of ops in the bush using AKs. I've also seen the jihad guys using ARs when you know that AKs had to have been available. I'd like to hear from people that have used both systems in the field under stress and can objectively comment on the two.
 
Mick...make mine a .45 in 1911 form from John Jardine; and a Bill Wylde AR preferably in flat-top config.

Love the .308 in a bolt rifle and heck, love the 9mm as well. Just my personal preferences.
 
.308/7.62 and .45; here's why.

No parameters were given for this question. Concerns about over penetration, lack of marksmanship being compensated by lighter weight more quantity of ammo, small hands, recoil, all of that nonesense has been omitted from this discussion.

That being the case, I've always been an Elmer Keith guy over a Jack O'Conner follower. Ammo selection can make the 5.56 perform, and some say that with the proper ammo that the 5.56 can do it all. That may be all well and good, but 150+/- grains hitting something id different than 55 grains hitting something. Ditto DITTO for the .45 over 9mm.
 
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