no hype reviews/evaluations

I would think to avoid bias and group influence the test group wouldn’t discuss their results with each other. If they do discuss them I’d think in public would be the best idea.
I predict that the group will not be able to really tell a difference between the badly heat-treated and the optimal one unless they have them at the same time and can do side by side comparing. Even then they may not be able to tell. Should be a very interesting experiment.
 
db said:
I predict that the group will not be able to really tell a difference between the badly heat-treated and the optimal one unless they have them at the same time and can do side by side comparing. Even then they may not be able to tell.
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Depends on what properties the bad heat treat gives. If it makes the steel softer than the standard RC58, edge retention with a fine polish will suffer in most kinds of cutting. If it makes the steel more brittle at the same hardness, maybe only the people who grind their edges db-thin or use them like Patrick Stamp will notice.
 
Jerok said:
The way I understand it is that the reviewers will discuss the results and craft a report.
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Yes, it will work very similar to an actual research group for which there can be many people involved but at most 1-2 people do the main writing who often are not the people who did any of the work. Like any research group, there will be more than one project at a time and not everyone is involved in every project.

It is just an extension of how the experiments are performed, everyone does which best utilizes their skills/interests. Some collect raw data carefully, others do the numerical analysis, make sense out of the expriments vs theory, do a literature survey, the final write up, present/defend the work to the public, etc. .

thombrogan said:
Depends on what properties the bad heat treat gives.
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One of the points to be investigated is the extent that a "superior" steel/hardening is actually superior. Properties like wear resistance, toughness and corrosion resistance can change as much as 10x in steels and heat treatments in the same steel can influence behavior by a large percentage.

It should be obvous for example that L6 isn't M2 when corrosion resistance is compared because L6 will oxidize so rapidly that corrosion comes off on acidic foods as it is cut whereas M2 won't even form a patina in most enviroments. In many cases there is no debate that a process/steel is actually superior, but there is still a lot of contention as to for whom that is actually significant.

A question of interest is not only do how these propreties translate to knife performance but what it necessary to discriminate. There is much discussion about mandating high levels of precision for testing without ever considering what level of precision is well represented by actual use. This is actually absurd and comes from a complete lack of experience with actual scientific work.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It is just an extension of how the experiments are performed, everyone does which best utilizes their skills/interests. Some collect raw data carefully, others do the numerical analysis, make sense out of the expriments vs theory, do a literature survey, the final write up, present/defend the work to the public, etc.
-Cliff
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Could I get in on the gopher work? Like I said in the 13C26 thread, I am loathe to use someone else's knife, especially if they paid more than five bucks for it. I might want to try something out after some other poor schlub gets to be the first guy to break one of the blades, or his local post office loses it; but until then I could help a little with the mundane stuff.
 
hardheart said:
Like I said in the 13C26 thread, I am loathe to use someone else's knife, especially if they paid more than five bucks for it.
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Your viewpoint needs a bit of a paradigm shift. To be very clear - I am not doing you a favor by allowing you to evaluate the knives - you are doing a favor to the knife community by donating your time and effort.

-Cliff
 
It's kinda like a passaround, with an added dimension of different examples of the same knife.
 
The first evaluation will start in jan/feb. I sent out an email yesterday just to notifiy everyone and check to make sure I had not missed anyone on the distribution list. If you have not recieved the email then let me know and I'll update the list. I sent out another email in a day or two with pictures and information on the first knife which is due in jan/feb.

-Cliff
 
I'm looking foreward to being able to look at results from this. Cliff, I think this is a wonderfull idea. Please include the boring as well as the new and cutting edge. A good example for me is 20CV. I'm dying to buy a particular lightfoot. You'd be amazed what I'm getting from people as far as "What is your experience with 20CV steel". I've gotten everything from blank stares to people making answers up. I'm sure we'll read some strange answers, some unexpected. Some ego's will be stepped on, to be sure, and some steels taken for granted will come out as heros.

I can't wait! Good one Cliff. If I can help in any way let me know ( I'm not a knifemaker) . Oh well. Joe L.
 
Ripantuck, emails to your yahoo account are bouncing.

" This account has been disabled or discontinued "

-Cliff
 
As am I. I was also very surprised by the number of people who were willing to do such evaluations. I have become jaded by the lack of critical thinking and mass propoganda of nonsense and did not expect literally dozens of people to be willing to participate.

-Cliff
 
The first knives are going out. It will not be a blind study, I am still working on this, but anyone who is interested in CPM-D2 vs D2 drop me an email.

-Cliff
 
The first of these has been posted by Mike, I would encourage anyone interested to offer their thoughts about the methods used and the conclusions reached. I will be sending around a few knives like this so the participants can develop both their evaluation methods and writing/reporting style and then the true blind tests will begin. Ref:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4824743

In addition to comments on the work itself, it would also be appreciated to any relevant links. Materials information on the steels, work that other people have done on the issues discussed, etc. . Once all participants invloved in the passaround have completed their work I will be writing a review article so all extra information would be of significant help.

-Cliff
 
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