No Toilet ! Now what do I do?

I'd just like to point out that humans are the ONLY species that has to deal with their own waste. Every other species on this planet never has to interface with its own byproduct to dispose of it.

Actually a simple knowledge of what plants NOT to use to wipe with is very helpful. You can sue anything, but you'll find the right leaf before to long.

And another thing to bring up...when your out roughing it for any long period of time, you actually become cleaner...your insides that is. Your not daily filling your body with fake simple sugars and fats. You have to work a little bit harder during the day and you eat healthier which in turn keeps your insides clean. This also helps with disposal of waste. The average persons waste is almost toxic from the amount of crap in it. But few weeks of better eating will turn that crap into poop that is worth something to some creature or plant.
 
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We are indeed a unique species.

I have observed though, that pigs in a fairly small paddock or enclosure will often keep their toilet activities happening in just one small area. And cats sometimes bury their foul extrusions (in vegetable gardens especially). They don't use TP though.
 
Here are some random thoughts on the subject ..er.. matter. I guess that our aversion to poop may vary from culture to culture.

One anecdote comes easily to mind is as follows; My dad grew up in rural Chile in the 1940's. For a couple of years his dad suffered from a recurrant abcess in his armpit that was very painful. Several times he had it lanced, debrided, etc. Antibiotics would be prescribed. It would always come back. My grandma convinced my Grandpa to go to a local curandera, or traditional healer. She examined him, asked him how many kids they had and their ages, who was overall the healthiest. My dad always had the most cuts and bruises and was the dirtiest of Manuel and Maria's brood but was hardly ever sick. The healer told them to take my dad's, who was eight at the time, first poop of the day and apply generously to the affected area every day for a week. Not only did the abcess go away never to return but he also saved on a week's worth of deodorant!

I know that in most first world developed nations, we have managed to dramatically alter our gut fauna, virtually eliminating bacteria such as H. pylori for example, through the use of antibiotics, both directly and in our foods. This has left us not only suseptible to a host of autoimmune disorders such a Crohns and IBD (or S) and various cancers, but also to the ease in which we can become infected with fecal related pathogens such a C. difficle which can be fatal in weakened persons. In the hospital where I work, fecal transplants are becoming more commonly used every year to treat the dreaded c.diff. As a side note, I heard in a radio program a statistic that people who live and work around farm animals are less prone to said autoimmune isorders and cancers.

All I'm sayng is that a little poop won't kill you and may actually help you.

Unless you're blowing spouts in the Ganges I guess.
 
coote said:
We are indeed a unique species.

I have observed though, that pigs in a fairly small paddock or enclosure will often keep their toilet activities happening in just one small area. And cats sometimes bury their foul extrusions (in vegetable gardens especially). They don't use TP though.
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Yep,I raise pigs among other animals and pigs do localize their dump site. They choose a spot they never go to, thats furthest away form their sleeping place and feeding area..which in most cases is right in front of their pin gate :) Chickens/ducks/birds in general and goats/grazing animals dont care because they never stay in one place long enough interact with it.

I'm not to surprised Marcelo, while the human body is rather discussing most of the time, it dose provide its own healing products. After getting a metal chip in my eye, I learned the healing powers of breast milk. Its an amazing eye healer... it also cures pink eye in a day or less.
 
Very interesting!

I wonder if folks here should register as fecal transplant donors. Between us we might just have what is needed to beneficially fill the void in a few prominent brain cavities :D

But seriously....

I can see the logic in spreading the healthy doop around your grandpa's abcess. I've been experimenting with beneficial microorganisms in my garden. One expert in this field suggests creating a brew of garden spray by taking soil from around healthy plants, multiplying the organisms in rice water or whatever, then spraying a diluted mix of this over plants that aren't doing so well. I haven't been doing it long enough to give a meaningful report on results, but I certainly like the logic behind it all.

While we are talking about pigs.... my Uncle was a dairy farmer who kept a few pigs as well as cows. In those days just the cream was taken from the farm and he had a lot of skimmed milk which the pigs utilised. I remember him saying that it was good for the health of piglets to give them a shovel full of topsoil in their feed to make sure their intestines got what they needed.

This discussion has become quite fascinating. Thank you.
 
Well done Milwaukee. Our sewage sits in ponds (just a short distance from our home), with a steady run-off going into the ocean through a pipe that extends maybe a couple of hundred yards offshore. I guess with our relatively small population (maybe 50,000) the ocean isn't being affected too drastically. But it would be kinda nice if we could do something a bit better eventually.

Yeah. Although I'm adaptable and have often done without it, I like using TP and I'm likely to panic when the supplies in the house fall below an acceptable level.

Remember, no job is complete until the paperwork is done.

Just to keep us grounded, here is a picture of some useful blades (totally irrelevant to the discussion):
UsefulBlades-1.jpg



And here is a photo of the toilet 'facilities' I made when we had a lot of guests staying at a campsite. The blue box is an inverted fish case. It sits over a shallow hole. It worked very well.
Toilet.jpg
 
Someone said earlier inthe post " ...would you just wipe the poop off your arm with TP and call it good..." My answer is no, I use baby wipes...I explain.

There was a survey done among doctors, nurses and other departments that involve people taking their cloths off for medical or other evaluations/treatment. They all had on major complaint..."Wipe your ass!!!!!!!!!" mainly guys, but girls you fall under this too..... Medical professionals have noticed the lack of un-wiped butts in this country. They often result in leaving brown stains on the examination tables and chairs. The solution is to use baby wipes to clean your surface. Its more hygienic and it gets rid of that smell that you blame on the person closest to you. Most guys are not stable enough in their manhood to 'stoop' to such levels, but to the rest of you unbelievers, try it. I use then to finish the job and I will never go back to just paper.
 
Lt.,
Yep! Anyone that has spent time "out and about" will appreciate the moistened wipes. Prevents "monkey butt" and just makes life a little more comfortable. TP starts the job but either butt wipes or soap and water finish the job.

My wife is Filipina and was SHOCKED to learn that Americans often stop at just a dry paper wipe.

Bill
 
I've used and, on a couple of occasions helped build (and later dismantle and fill-in) compost toilets, and if well-built, they're incredibly good. I know people who use the compost for fertilising crops, though I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I understood the Chinese were big on using human manure on crops, but again I don't know what crops specifically.
 
Codger_64 said:
Yepper. Let's emulate the methods of India.
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I was thinking the exact same thing.

sutured said:
Cholera is a disease spread by an inadequate separation of infected feces with food or, more commonly, water.
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Yes, and when you have many, many people trying to dispose of human manure rather than a water treatment plant, you're going to have cholera and worse. When I worked on farms, yes, we would use manure as fertilizer, but it was ALWAYS manure from herbivores. Human waste can and will have little nasties that cows and horses will not. Personally, I would not trust human manure for anything. We always used outhouses.

22-rimfire said:
They say that human manure or compost made from human fecal matter is not a problem for crops or vegetables that grow above the ground as opposed to root crops like potatoes and so forth. What do you think sewage treatment plants do with the sludge that builds up? It gets spread on fields, usually grain crop growing fields.
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It's actually highly treated and tested sludge that has been processed to remove and kill all the harmful bacteria. It doesn't just sit around like compost.


/rant on/
Ok, I'll rant a little. I've read the Humanure handbook years ago, as well as Cody Lundin's books, and others. They all seem to moan and groan that we are using precious water to eliminate waste.

Don't they teach anything in schools these days? Water, like coffee and beer, is only borrowed, you don't actually USE it. There's this thing called a water cycle. That which you "use" and return to the environment (via a toilet flush or whatever), goes back into this cycle. Kind of like the old Harry Chapin song, "All My Life's a Circle". Hoarding water interrupts the cycle, using it is a GOOD thing, keeps the cycle going.

When my washing machine gave up the ghost, I got a good old Maytag that uses 50 gallons for every full load. Love it, keeps my sewer pipes cleaned out!!!! :D Just adding to the circle of life, cycle of water, keeping Nemo afloat....

/rant off/
 
Precautions are needed with any method used to deal with any type of manure.

I still hold the view that composting toilets are a good option, especially when there is no 'grid'.

If there is not a well-managed sewerage system in a crowded area, then there are likely to be problems. Here's a link to a You Tube video showing some toilet options in Haiti. You might not feel like eating popcorn during this movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k86rzVGqfEg

Naturally there will be differing views on dealing with poos, but I kinda like the idea of recycling. I can't help thinking about the tons of artificial fertilizer that get poured on to the land and the way that soil is deteriorating and disappearing in some places.

Having read the comments here I'm getting some creative marketing ideas.

What about a lightweight 'backpacker's bidet'? That would save some guys having to use a wire brush and a water blaster when they get back home.
 
While it is true that human waste is full of nasties, so is animal waste. spread fresh cow crap on your lettuce, and you'll get microbes. Its just that most of the time the animal crap isn't full of stuff harmful to humans, but it still can be, lots of parasites that we don't normally get can be in animal fecal matter. worried? wash your veggies, or give them a little bleach soak, no biggie. Cholera is nasty because it kills you quick, but hook-worm used to be very prevalent in the southern states, and it is quite happy with human hosts.
Sodak, as for the water cycle, you probably know this, but I'll say it anyway in case someone is wondering. Most north american water comes from deep aquifers that either do not replenish, or do so very slowly. Thats because our current methods are not terribly efficient, so we need to start with pretty clean water. The problem comes when all the waste gets shoved downstream, and each place down the line it gets harder and harder to clean up. getting stuff like heavy metals out of water takes a lot of work, so the more we pollute all of the potential sources, the more energy it will take to get good quality water on an large scale. In the far north of canada where most of the water is full of mercury and arsenic, the effects are pretty nasty. Plus the levels of heavy metals and other residual nasties are continuing to go up in ocean fish. So while you are right, there is a cycle, we are just making stirring the muck in the pool, eventually we'll have to change something.
 
What really is a nasty little suprise to get is clostridium difficile or c.diff for short. Nasty little bug, alcohol won't even make it blink, smells like rotten fish. It's in fecal matter, so wash your hands good before you eat. Some antimicrobial solutions will kill it, but it's not the type of stuff you want on your bare flesh. And yeah, one person pissing in a river isn't gonna make a difference. If the river is chock full of fish, do you think they're crawling on land to drop their deuces? Think about that next time you drink that "fresh mountain spring."
 
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My personal idea for a dump site goes something like this. A deepish hole around 6 foot down, 3 or 4 foot wide and 10+ feet in either direction (outhouse sets in the middle). Fill the hole 30% up with rock and rubble. Then fill the whole thing minus a shaft up to the house. After each unloading you drop a shovel full or two of sawdust or dirt on top to cover the smell.

I base my idea off a leach field. And at such depth as 6-8 feet, you should start to hit some sort of water. The rock/rubble helps with drainage and dispersal.
 
There are still a few old pit outhouses around in my part of the world. We never added anything to ours as I recall, although some folks thought it was a good idea to sprinkle some hydrated lime in occasionally. And I've never heard of anyone suffering any bad effect from using an old-fashioned privy or through living close to one. The thing I didn't like was to have flying insects suddenly collide with my naked nether regions at night.

When a new home was being built on a bare bit of land, it was once common for the builder to dig a hole and place a portable outhouse over it. Nowadays I understand that it is illegal to do this in our area. Instead, folks sometimes use things like 'Portaloos' where you tip out your bottom into a tank full of antiseptic liquid. I guess that this provides a fairly sanitary short-term solution, but I can't help wonder what harm may be done when the tank is emptied.

Generally, around here, if there is a 'grid' sewer service nearby, you are expected to connect to it. If there is no pipe nearby, you are mostly expected to install a septic tank system. I don't know what the latest rules are, but a while back - in some areas at least - the local authority required you to have a regular inspection of your septic tank system done by some independent expert. And this isn't cheap.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Sodak, as for the water cycle, you probably know this, but I'll say it anyway in case someone is wondering. Most north american water comes from deep aquifers that either do not replenish, or do so very slowly. Thats because our current methods are not terribly efficient, so we need to start with pretty clean water. The problem comes when all the waste gets shoved downstream, and each place down the line it gets harder and harder to clean up. getting stuff like heavy metals out of water takes a lot of work, so the more we pollute all of the potential sources, the more energy it will take to get good quality water on an large scale. In the far north of canada where most of the water is full of mercury and arsenic, the effects are pretty nasty. Plus the levels of heavy metals and other residual nasties are continuing to go up in ocean fish. So while you are right, there is a cycle, we are just making stirring the muck in the pool, eventually we'll have to change something.
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Gadget, you make some very good points. Yes, some of the water does come from aquifers, but I think they are finding they refill quicker than previously thought - but we are definitely draining them faster than they fill, no argument there. That can be a real problem in population planning of communities. Here in Colorado, we use mountain snow melt mostly, although some are drilling into the aquifers.

I would argue, though, that many municipalities (mine in particular) do a really good job of cleaning things up before releasing them. So while the cycle is interrupted a bit, just like a dam, it eventually reaches equilibrium - as long as we don't have too many dams - that's what I'm arguing against. But that's a whole 'nuther problem.

The problem in responding to this thread is not making a bunch of double entendre (sp?) jokes... It's fertile ground! :D Oops....
 
Sodak, I hear that.:) Not all municipalities do that great of a job. I know that Calgary doesn't treat storm run-off, and its a big patch of concrete draining into the bow river valley. the lake I used to work at was tested weekly for fecal coli-form count. We often called the kayak paddles "double ended poo ladles" that was mostly ag runoff, but some of the small communities probably drained directly into the watershed. doesn't help that most of the water in western canada is full of crypto and giardia. Both also transferable through human bowels. That, and enough nitrogen to turn you green.
Didn't someone a while back do a test to see which method for disposal broke down the fastest? I seem to remember it was method number 2...... sorry
 
In response to some of the speculation about animals managing their waste, I'll say that over years of owning dogs I've noticed that they choose certain areas in which to do their business. In fact, that's the whole concept of house training--dogs will refuse to defecate in an area they consider "home." Even the area of the yard where my dogs are tied out is completely clean and free of feces.

Also, my parents use commercially produced composting toilets in their cabins on the back of the property. Those things are incredible. No smell at ALL and the waste (dropped into a sawdust mixed with beneficial bacteria) decomposes in short order.

Frosty
 
Our dog is pretty much the same Frostyfingers. And generally when we take her out for a walk, she will go and hide in the long grass or the bushes to take a dump. Although occasionally she has caused embarrassment and I have to pick it up (that is the law here).

Those commercial composting toilets..... does the stuff sit in a bucket or a heavy plastic bag? How long does it take for a couple of people to fill a receptacle? Thanks in advance.... Coote.
 
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