No WIPs in the Custom forum?

If "community interest" is the focus, then perhaps you should take note of just how much community interest is drawn to the Custom section because of WIP threads.

Last time I checked, the WIP thread I did with Lorien had over a quarter of a million views. How's that for community interest?

How many people are drawn to the forum by a super mod that wants to puff his chest and put everyone in their place? I'll hazard a guess that runs many off and draws zero in.

A super mod that wants to disregard what so many people want so he or she can be the ultimate hall monitor warrior is the kind of thing that will ruin a forum.

The fact that ShopTalk was divided up into those other sub-forums has only hurt the community of makers and created forums where threads go to die. Sweeping threads like Nathan's and Scott's into those sink holes is a mistake.
 
Karda said:
“It does take great maturity to understand that the opinion we are arguing for is merely the hypothesis we favor, necessarily imperfect, probably transitory, which only very limited minds can declare to be a certainty or a truth.”
― Milan Kundera
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Agreed. None us really know WTF we're talking about. However I'll consider your point if you'll consider mine.

There are a couple areas inside of Bladeforums that have become de facto center hubs for discussion of certain aspects of the knife industry. This is not your typical internet chat spot. And despite the somewhat arbitrary labels given to them they have evolved beyond their original conception. There are real Knifemakers and serious Collectors here and this is where they congregate. Like it or not, this is it. And they are the reason the forum exists. They're paying members and in some ways it's almost like professional membership dues. They have a right to be here and it is imprudent and inappropriate to try to dictate to them where they should meet and what they should talk about. This forum is not like the other forums in that regard. This is a certain facet of the knife industry here and it is not your place to tell them what to discuss. Where the other forums may have a lot of registered users and hobbyists and children this particular group deserves a bit of respect and a modicum of discretion. So, where you may be charged with enforcing particular rules here, you and the ownership of Bladeforums need to remember who you're addressing, there are a number of professionals in this group, and perhaps show just a little bit of respect for that. We pay good money to be here, we conduct ourselves as professionals, we are not children and we do not need you telling us what to talk about.

You moved my thread to "Hammers and Tongs". I don't want my thread there. And I doubt that either you or the owner of this forum could give two flips about me, my threads and what I think about this, and that is troublesome.
 
Morrow said:
If a knifemaker wants to do a WIP thread meant to be informative...a "how to" or "how I do it" the thread should go in Shop Talk/Hammer & Tongs...yes?
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No. If I want to do a WIP thread addressing other makers I will put it in ST and it will be written for that audience. They want to know how something is done so they can do it. If I'm addressing collectors they want to know how something is done so they can appreciate and understand it. It's not the same thing.

And who is the audience at H&T? That's not my audience.
 
Morrow said:
Let's focus on the issue boiled down. The WIP threads in the C & H are meant to showcase a knifemaker and their knives to their target audience...yes?
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That's always how I have understood it. I've never thought it got too cluttered. If I didn't like a thread I'd leave it alone and find something else to read.

I have been overwhelmed with appreciation and added value of a maker's work through the WIP threads. Since the target audience of the C&HK forum are (mostly?)collectors, these threads serve incredibly well.

I see the rationale and understand about clear organization. However, I think this thread category of C&HK is within the pervue of the forum.

Morrow said:
If a knifemaker wants to do a WIP thread meant to be informative...a "how to" or "how I do it" the thread should go in Shop Talk/Hammer & Tongs...yes?
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THe easy answer is 'Yes!'. But I see it's not that easy. These threads DO serve two communities: Both awareness and interest for the consumer/collector, as well as educational and interest for fellow makers.

This said, the 'tail wagging the dog' is that the primary reason to show this may not be to educate fellow makers, but rather inform and appeal to the consumer.

I would submit those who post in C&HK instead of 'Hammer and Tongs' (horrible name limiting to forgers tools only) have made that decision of who their base is.

At the very least a sub forum of C&HK may be OK. Thanks for the dialog.

Coop
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
No. If I want to do a WIP thread addressing other makers I will put it in ST and it will be written for that audience. They want to know how something is done so they can do it. If I'm addressing collectors they want to know how something is done so they can appreciate and understand it. It's not the same thing.

And who is the audience at H&T? That's not my audience.
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The point of my post was to separate the audiences for WIP threads.
 
I was just thinking to my self the other day how nice C&H ran. Very seldom was there a need for a mod to jump in. Both makers and collectors can show and admire great custom knives. Seems to me like it wasn't broke. Collectors should see all that is involved in the making of these works of art. That's where the boys are separated from the men.
Just my .02
 
i also had two threads move in the reorg, both of which are not written as how-to's but as wips, not written with near enough detail for how to, but enough to both inspire and inform other makers and to share my process with collectors and clients, in fact the first one is expressly for that purpose and for a specific client...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rom-millsaw-steel-traditional-handle-mounting
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-the-shop-Mikazuki-Kontanto-making-of-process

my process involves hammer and tongs for the first hour or two, but for the next couple weeks is about other tools, processes, and materials, so i didn't see a fit in that section...for me, shop talk is like, "how do you make charcoal", "how can i fit a guard", "blade forging technique", "let's see your workshop", and so on...i also spend time on other maker specific forums "giving back" to the community and helping to inspire and equip others for a high level of craft, on bladeforums i enjoy the level of educated and informed collectors i interact with...

internet sites, and especially forums, are constantly changing venues that easily respond and shift as community needs and uses change over time...the custom section may have had one intended purpose to get the forum up and running, but it's expected that once things go live that may change, and certainly years later it will look like a completely different neighbourhood...

when i joined, i was advised and invited by collectors and other makers to spend my time in the custom area as it is most suited to my work and my intended audience, i liked the neighbourhood and have been welcomed there, thanks, all!

i'm all for organization and good management of information, but if there are content overflow issues in the custom area and reorg is needed, it would seem having wip and gallery subsections within custom knives would be a better way to classify things...(many production collectors have no time for my pace, style, or techniques, muha!)
 
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Yeah, I had also been invited to spend more time in the custom area. So when I finally do a real thread and it gets moved I got my shorts in a twist.

Anyways, I've concluded the thread in question, there's no hard feelings, and I won't bother you folks with WIP type stuff where it doesn't belong.
 
islandblacksmith said:
i also had two threads move in the reorg, both of which are not written as how-to's but as wips, not written with near enough detail for how to, but enough to both inspire and inform other makers and to share my process with collectors and clients, in fact the first one is expressly for that purpose and for a specific client...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rom-millsaw-steel-traditional-handle-mounting
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-the-shop-Mikazuki-Kontanto-making-of-process

my process involves hammer and tongs for the first hour or two, but for the next couple weeks is about other tools, processes, and materials, so i didn't see a fit in that section...for me, shop talk is like, "how do you make charcoal", "how can i fit a guard", "blade forging technique", "let's see your workshop", and so on...i also spend time on other maker specific forums "giving" back to the community and helping to inspire high level of craft in others, here i enjoy the level of educated and informed collectors i interact with...

internet, and especially forums are constantly changing venues that easily respond and shift as community needs and uses change over time...the custom section may have had one intended purpose to get the forum up and running, but its expected that once things go live that may change, and certainly years later it will look like a completely different neighbourhood...

when i joined, i was advised and invited by collectors and other makers to spend my time in the custom area as it is most suited to my work and my intended audience, i liked the neighbourhood and have been welcomed there, thanks, all!

i'm all for organization and good management of information, but if there are content overflow issues in the custom area and reorg is needed, it would seem having wip and gallery subsections within custom knives would be a better way to classify things...
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Seems like I'm a bit late to the party...

Some great posts here arguing to keep them in the custom section and that would be my preference as well.

I own only customs and my contribution to this world is very small. There are a ton of well established makers and collectors that have shared a wealth of knowledge in the customs forum and I find wip threads to be some of the most intriguing and informative. I was very proud to have dave's thread up for all of those people that I have looked up to and learned a lot from to see.

.02 contributed.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Yeah, I had also been invited to spend more time in the custom area. So when I finally do a real thread and it gets moved I got my shorts in a twist.

Anyways, I've concluded the thread in question, there's no hard feelings, and I won't bother you folks with WIP type stuff where it doesn't belong.
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Please be patient with us......hopefully we canget those shorts untwisted. :)
 
There was nothing wrong with the way things were.

There are LOTS of things wrong with the way they are.

This forum chased away many makers unwilling to lay down money for membership in order to participate, now you're going to restrict the participation of those that ponied up when they attempt to stir interest in their work...?

Nathan's dead-on with this. Hate seeing you walking away from this, Nathan, but holy cow do I understand why!
 
Karda said:
Gee, whodathunk that this would be a reply instead of proper discourse.:rolleyes:
Lets all just take our balls and go home shall we?
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I'm sorry if that's how it came off....

If I can't get 'Platinum' enjoyment for my support of these Forums and the Makers posts and interaction, I'll just lurk as a 'Registered' member.

It is a shame as there has been a lot of excitement and enthusiasm the past few months but all (good) things eventually end for some reason or another.
 
Dawkind said:
I'm sorry if that's how it came off....

If I can't get 'Platinum' enjoyment for my support of these Forums and the Makers posts and interaction, I'll just lurk as a 'Registered' member.

It is a shame as there has been a lot of excitement and enthusiasm the past few months but all (good) things eventually end for some reason or another.
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I agree and hopefully it doesn't come to an end.

I hope there has been enough outspoken dissatisfaction with the new format to keep it like it was. This thread was started nine hours ago and there are already pages of members who have stated their position, all in the same direction.

After reading through it again I would like to thank all of those who have taken the time to comment. I'd also like to thank Morrow for being proactive and trying to work toward a solution from the start instead of being defensive and abrasive.
 
If I may ask a question .

Was there a complaint or did a mod just move it to where They thought it should go

Obvious at this point from what I am seeing the general opinion is that we the active members of the Custom forum like when makers do WIP

In fact I love them

If there is question ? I'll suggest it again......run a poll

This way we can all see what the paying members would like to see there
 
NickWheeler said:
If "community interest" is the focus, then perhaps you should take note of just how much community interest is drawn to the Custom section because of WIP threads.

Last time I checked, the WIP thread I did with Lorien had over a quarter of a million views. How's that for community interest?

How many people are drawn to the forum by a super mod that wants to puff his chest and put everyone in their place? I'll hazard a guess that runs many off and draws zero in.

A super mod that wants to disregard what so many people want so he or she can be the ultimate hall monitor warrior is the kind of thing that will ruin a forum.

The fact that ShopTalk was divided up into those other sub-forums has only hurt the community of makers and created forums where threads go to die. Sweeping threads like Nathan's and Scott's into those sink holes is a mistake.
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Nathan the Machinist said:
Agreed. None us really know WTF we're talking about. However I'll consider your point if you'll consider mine.

There are a couple areas inside of Bladeforums that have become de facto center hubs for discussion of certain aspects of the knife industry. This is not your typical internet chat spot. And despite the somewhat arbitrary labels given to them they have evolved beyond their original conception. There are real Knifemakers and serious Collectors here and this is where they congregate. Like it or not, this is it. And they are the reason the forum exists. They're paying members and in some ways it's almost like professional membership dues. They have a right to be here and it is imprudent and inappropriate to try to dictate to them where they should meet and what they should talk about. This forum is not like the other forums in that regard. This is a certain facet of the knife industry here and it is not your place to tell them what to discuss. Where the other forums may have a lot of registered users and hobbyists and children this particular group deserves a bit of respect and a modicum of discretion. So, where you may be charged with enforcing particular rules here, you and the ownership of Bladeforums need to remember who you're addressing, there are a number of professionals in this group, and perhaps show just a little bit of respect for that. We pay good money to be here, we conduct ourselves as professionals, we are not children and we do not need you telling us what to talk about.

You moved my thread to "Hammers and Tongs". I don't want my thread there. And I doubt that either you or the owner of this forum could give two flips about me, my threads and what I think about this, and that is troublesome.
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Thank you for opining about respect and discretion, while absolving yourself of same in regards to myself and the 20,000 or so posters around you.

Perhaps we should just allow all the sheath makers and sharpeners to post in the C&H forum also, after all they do many times make sheaths and sharpen custom knives....Oh wait, I get it. They're not allowed to because they haven't been "Invited".......
 
For what it's worth, this is my impression.

With a category being named Knife Specific Discussion and a sub forum in that category being called Custom and Handmade Knives, that would be where the general public would go to find out information as well as see photos of Custom and Handmade Knives.

With a category being named General Knife Maker's Discussion and a sub forum in that category being called Shop Talk Bladesmith's questions and answers that would be where knife makers go to develop their skills and learn to make better knives. But not likely a place that the general public would visit.

So my impression would be the collectors would be hanging out in the Custom and Handmade Knives section and not in Shop Talk Bladesmith's questions and answers.
 
Burl Source said:
For what it's worth, this is my impression.

With a category being named Knife Specific Discussion and a sub forum in that category being called Custom and Handmade Knives, that would be where the general public would go to find out information as well as see photos of Custom and Handmade Knives.

With a category being named General Knife Maker's Discussion and a sub forum in that category being called Shop Talk Bladesmith's questions and answers that would be where knife makers go to develop their skills and learn to make better knives. But not likely a place that the general public would visit.

So my impression would be the collectors would be hanging out in the Custom and Handmade Knives section and not in Shop Talk Bladesmith's questions and answers.
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Hammer & Tongs

Knifemaking Knowledge & Discovery. Share your works in progress, ask questions, and continue the traditions.
 
Hello!

I just have to say it (allthough I didn't want to at first) - Karda, is it really that hard to stay on topic? This is about WIPs and WIPs only. I can see that you don't have more to say than "a rule is a rule" and don't want to go into discussing, if that "rule" is any good but try to drag all kinds of other things into this discussion instead as a distraction. To echo Morrow, another Mod for that matter, please do stay on topic - WIPs in CaH, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe you could open other threads with the things that seem to bother you in Tech Support to allow them to be discussed?

Regards,
Alex

PS: Joe - I really like the idea of a Poll (in CaH for that matter, to reach the one's deprived of WIP threads)
 
A.l.e.x. said:
Hello!

I just have to say it (allthough I didn't want to at first) - Karda, is it really that hard to stay on topic? This is about WIPs and WIPs only. I can see that you don't have more to say than "a rule is a rule" and don't want to go into discussing, if that "rule" is any good but try to drag all kinds of other things into this discussion instead as a distraction. To echo Morrow, another Mod for that matter, please do stay on topic - WIPs in CaH, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe you could open other threads with the things that seem to bother you in Tech Support to allow them to be discussed?

Regards,
Alex

PS: Joe - I really like the idea of a Poll (in CaH for that matter, to reach the one's deprived of WIP threads)
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I was as on topic as any in this thread. Pointing out that if we allow for a few, we must allow for all.
As I stated before, if the knifemakers of this site are going to hijack a forum away from the general membership, perhaps that forum should become a part of the knifemakers area.

Instead of discussion, lets just play moderate and berate the moderator.
 
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