Non-aggressive knife names? Does it matter?

[Supmonkeyface]

Thanks! What about the Crowley or Wilkes-Boothe?

 

[Josh K]

Just because I can turn on the TV and a commercial with some guy taking a crossover off rode doesn’t mean that its not going to get stuck 20 feet from the road. Just because the name has a “scary” name doesn’t mean that it’s a weapon of death. Case in point the Military, aggressive sounding name, designed as the perfect utility knife.

Yes, but try explaining that to people who are absolutely flabbergasted when I pull out my Ladybug (in yellow nonetheless) to open a package.

Them: "Is that a knife?"
Me: "Yes."
Them: "Why do you carry a knife?"
Me: "To open boxes, trim my nails, cut thread and cord, etc"
Them: "I didn't know you had such a deadly object on you. Be careful with that, I don't want to get cut."
Me: "I'm not going to cut you, it's safe."
Them: "Like hell it is, you should have seen my cousin's friend's daughter. She almost cut her finger off with a knife."

It's at that point where I scream and lunge at them with my 2" folding knife.

 

[kozak6]

Our knife laws have changed in GA this year...it now states you can't carry a knife that was made for offence or defence.

There are similar laws in my area as well.
In Arizona:

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 except a pocket knife concealed on his person;

and

A. In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Deadly weapon" means anything that is designed for lethal use.

And also

Concealed weapons.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person... to have or carry concealed on or about his person... any kind of knife or weapon, except a pocket knife not manufactured and used for the purpose of offense and defense.

With these specific laws, if the name of a knife (as well as marketing, advertising and other things) pointed towards an intended offensive or defensive use, it's probably a bad idea to carry that knife concealed. Open carry is less restricted, but still...

How about the Gutshank Disembowel-O-Tron 5000?

 

[riz_aaroni]

Yes, but try explaining that to people who are absolutely flabbergasted when I pull out my Ladybug (in yellow nonetheless) to open a package.

Them: "Is that a knife?"
Me: "Yes."
Them: "Why do you carry a knife?"
Me: "To open boxes, trim my nails, cut thread and cord, etc"
Them: "I didn't know you had such a deadly object on you. Be careful with that, I don't want to get cut."
Me: "I'm not going to cut you, it's safe."
Them: "Like hell it is, you should have seen my cousin's friend's daughter. She almost cut her finger off with a knife."

It's at that point where I scream and lunge at them with my 2" folding knife.

Lol. My dad still calls the knives I carry switchblades. Pisses me off every time. Who knows. Some people are savable and others are simply lost.

Thing is, it isn't like every BF member on here is the ideal knife carrying person. They should have the right, but I've met people who carry a knife and think they're hot shit because of it. I think a reeducation of most people would be helpful.

On a side note, I truly believe the best way to get people to understand and possibly even like/love knives is through hands-on experience. Sharpen their kitchen knives to be insanely sharp. Do yard work with them and have them use a knife. You can spend all day arguing about it, but it'd be a waste of time since at the end of that day it'd all amount to simply ideas. Have them chop a tree down though, they'll be next in line for a big fixed blade soon there after.

 

[KaliGman]

In my experience, including testifying in court a few hundred times, the name of the knife or firearm is a non-issue. To quote from something I posted on my website recently regarding reality versus Internet perceptions:

“Using a knife in self-defense will get you in legal trouble / The name or type of knife or firearm that you use will matter a lot and will determine whether or not you are charged with a crime.” This is spoken as “God’s own truth” by a large number of people, including a few magazine writers. What I have to say on the topic is that I have been a police officer, police instructor, federal agent, federal instructor, have testified in or observed testimony in literally hundreds of cases, have studied the legal outcomes of self-defense since I have taught and teach unarmed and armed combat methodologies to law enforcement and civilians, and I have not found this to be the case at all. Throughout the United States, the general standard for employing lethal or potentially lethal force (and the deployment of a blade is going to be seen as lethal force) is being able to articulate to a “reasonable man” why you were in fear of losing your life and/or suffering serious bodily injury at the time you used force to defend yourself. Whether you use a .44 Magnum revolver, a “Death Incarnate 2010 Ninja Destroyer” blade from the Kill ‘Em All Let God Sort ‘Em Out knife company, a “Warm and Fuzzy Lady Defendermatic” approved by the Handgun Haters of America for “those nasty people who actually might need a gun, like maybe the police and military,” or if you happened to run the bad guy over with a 1963 Chevrolet Corvette, it really does not matter. If you can articulate why you needed to use the force that you used, then you are generally OK. Please note that if the weapon that you are carrying is illegal for you to possess and/or carry in the jurisdiction that you are carrying it, then you are in trouble and will probably be prosecuted. Also note that I am not saying that there will not be legal repercussions in the case of you using lethal force on someone. There is a possibility that you will be charged even if you are in the right. There is a small possibility that you will be convicted. Based on my experience and research, I can say that yes, this has happened, but not to a very great degree. Some prosecutors will make much of your choice of weapon, but this tactic rarely results in a conviction unless other factors also influence the trial (being intoxicated and lying to the police were factors in several instances cited as “proof” that you are going to jail if you carry a specific weapon). Can people point to legitimate cases where people were convicted and they should not have been and where weapon type seemed to matter a lot in regard to the arguments that led to conviction? Sure. I can also show you people who have won millions in a state lottery, but that does not mean that either of the above scenarios is going to happen to you and me, despite how much I would like to be able to afford a bright red Ferrari California.

 

[senoBDEC]

Zero Tolerance for pansy names.

 

[shunsui]

I think they'll want to ban your knife no matter what it's called.

 

[elkins45]

Thanks! What about the Crowley or Wilkes-Boothe?

Crowley?

FYI for the Spyderco faithful: this thread was started in this forum just because Sypderco has offered model names at the extremes of the discussion (Ladybug, Worker vs. Military, Police)

 

[peanuts]

Yes, but try explaining that to people who are absolutely flabbergasted when I pull out my Ladybug (in yellow nonetheless) to open a package.

Them: "Is that a knife?"
Me: "Yes."
Them: "Why do you carry a knife?"
Me: "To open boxes, trim my nails, cut thread and cord, etc"
Them: "I didn't know you had such a deadly object on you. Be careful with that, I don't want to get cut."
Me: "I'm not going to cut you, it's safe."
Them: "Like hell it is, you should have seen my cousin's friend's daughter. She almost cut her finger off with a knife."

It's at that point where I scream and lunge at them with my 2" folding knife.

Pleas. PLEASE, tell me that isn't an actual conversation you had. If it was, the 'them' side need to be slapped. I know I know, education on knives is the key, but some people can't be helped.

 

[Supmonkeyface]

Thats the crazy sacrificial guy that Ozzy Osborne talks about in his song "Mr.Crowley"

 

[The Deacon]

"Ladies and Gentleman of the jury. The Defendant bought this knife, entitled 'Military' for one sole purpose. He claims it is to protect his life, I say he bought it with the intention of harming another human being with a will to cause death. Look at the knife. It's huge. Tell me where you would need four inches of blade outside of the kitchen. Even the name speaks volumes about how it was intended to be used."

Exactly. Even worse, imagine how a knife which admits to being purpose built as a weapon, and carries the logo of a group called SHIVworks will be presented to a jury. A Stretch, Endura, Delica, Caly 3, Sage, Native, or any one of a bunch of other Spyderco models with non-combative names would be at least somewhat harder for a prosecutor to demonize.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[Josh K]

Exactly. Even worse, imagine how a knife which admits to being purpose built as a weapon, and carries the logo of a group called SHIVworks will be presented to a jury. A Stretch, Endura, Delica, Caly 3, Sage, Native, or any one of a bunch of other Spyderco models with non-combative names would be at least somewhat harder for a prosecutor to demonize.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

But none work nearly as well going from the draw right into the natural grip. It's a trade off.

 

[The Deacon]

But none work nearly as well going from the draw right into the natural grip. It's a trade off.

What in life is not?

Edited to add: Luck can be a major factor as well. Who assaults you can determine whether the authorities will be pressured to treat your actions as self defense, or to persecute you. And no, that's not misspelled, I did not intend to write prosecute.

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[njr]

Thanks for the advice, KaliGman. And thanks to the poster who started this thread. I'm the ninja knife hater mentioned on the other thread.

One question: how much of your experience testifying was in second-amendment unfriendly cities like Chicago or Washington DC, NYC, etc? Or, do you have colleagues who have lots of experience testifying in these venues and if so, what was their experience?

I have a ccw that I use when out of state and have taken the class in use of force and reasonable man standard. I see that a lot of that training transfers over to carrying a knife.

I can also see the advantage of first using empty hand nerve targeted techniques (not sure if I'm using the right term), then maybe a flashlight as a force multiplier, then maybe some pepper spray, then maybe the knife as a last ditch tool. With my outdoors orientation, I like the medium/large wood handled knives, but I could see also carrying a small/medium edc knife, such as nutnfancy advocates. But then again, I am also in situations on a not infrequent basis which are not exactly rule of law environments.

In my experience, including testifying in court a few hundred times, the name of the knife or firearm is a non-issue. To quote from something I posted on my website recently regarding reality versus Internet perceptions:

 

[kreole]

But none work nearly as well going from the draw right into the natural grip. It's a trade off.

Instead of using your thumb, try using your index finger. The only adjustment you have to make after is to wrap your fingers around more if you want, but you have to do that with any folder.

 

[monsterdog]

This is why my wife carries a pink Delica..

 

[KaliGman]

Thanks for the advice, KaliGman. And thanks to the poster who started this thread. I'm the ninja knife hater mentioned on the other thread.

One question: how much of your experience testifying was in second-amendment unfriendly cities like Chicago or Washington DC, NYC, etc? Or, do you have colleagues who have lots of experience testifying in these venues and if so, what was their experience?

I work for the federal government and have worked in various locations. I have done some TDY work in Chicago, Boston, etc., but spent most of my federal LEO time on the Southwest Border, moving on to work at a headquarters offsite, and then running a federal task force (current job) composed of agents, municipal police officers, and state police officers. I worked as a municipal officer in the East/Southeast region of the nation for over 7 years. I receive ongoing legal updates and training, review the various law enforcement journals forwarded to me, discuss things with my fellow LEOs and with prosecutors, and review case law and decisions. I've testified in the Southeast and Southwest, and been involved in trials where I did not have to testify in other regions. Some of the places I worked were not bastions of light championing the concealed carry cause.

As for some of the "prosecutor waxing poetic" over your "Military" named knife, if you are in court you should have already discussed this matter with your attorney. After the "evil" nature of your tool is discussed by the prosecutor (which, in my experience, is not done on as frequent a basis as is generally portrayed in magazines and the Internet--mainly because this stuff is generally very easily refuted), your lawyer should redirect and ask you about the knife, then introduce information that was provided by the manufacturer or verified through multiple sources. For example, for the Military, the redirect would be "So, Spyderco produced this knife as a cutting tool. It was designed to be a sturdy, not easily broken, lightweight knife and was designed for a user, such as an infantry soldier, who was already overburdened with gear or was otherwise concerned with having a tool that would not take up a lot of space or significantly add to the load that he had to carry on a day-to-day basis. The knife was named the Military in honor of those soldiers who could benefit from its design characteristics."

Even if you have and carry a knife whose sole purpose is to be a weapon, absent this knife being banned in the area where you are carrying it, you are not doing anything illegal and it can be explained. Take a look at this same type argument and change it to firearms instead of knives. Aside from target shooting/competition, there is very little justification for the Glock 17 or 19 (two very good sellers for Glock) except as a weapon. If you are so worried about carrying a knife that is defined as or named like a weapon, then don't ever carry a concealed handgun in suburban and urban America, because it is automatically going to be seen as a weapon by the police, the courts, etc.

Personally, I recommend carrying the best tool for the job at hand, and do not really care what the name of the knife or firearm is. Knowing a bit about the legal system, keeping your head about you, acting as a reasonable person should rather than fighting for status or because "someone looked at you funny," and being able to articulate why you took the actions that you did in self-defense is going to serve you a lot better than worrying about a name engraved on the blade of a knife or an advertisement in some "Tacticool" magazine that defines your chosen tool as the next "Ninja Nutcutter 4000." If you think that the best tool might carry some "negative" image, be prepared to discuss and refute this, and, if charged, make sure all this is reviewed with your attorney.

 

[njr]

Thanks KaliManG, that really makes me feel more at ease. However, living under the machine here, I'm not sure I'll get the deja voo etc but I'll certainly take another look at those kind of knives. I do like a 3.5" or so knife and a full, rounded handle....

 

[Snagblade]

The Centofante IV is a smaller knife, has a cute little bug on it and will cut like a demon or open boxes...depends on your goal. The Adventura is a great SD knife and you can you bought it because you love Star Trek conventions, etc.

There are a ton of knives out there that are great defense tools that won't lead the court on a witch hunt/burning.

I'm not on fire for the P'Kal unless you train in a specific form of knife fighting, if so you prob represent about 1% or less of the knife fighting community or .000001% of the population . Anything that essentially means "ice pick grip" is gonna get the dagger jury eyes.

PS: I think a D4 wave actually is quicker and more natural to deploy for about 90% of the people including the trained.

 

[Snagblade]

Thanks KaliManG, that really makes me feel more at ease. However, living under the machine here, I'm not sure I'll get the deja voo etc but I'll certainly take another look at those kind of knives. I do like a 3.5" or so knife and a full, rounded handle....

You sir need to check out a Stretch FRN

Less than 4oz, 3.5" FFG blade, ergos of a god.